| Author | Message | ||
     Chevycummins |
I've had lots of problems with the 25R and am thinking about bailing on the bike. I don't want to stick someone with an almost new bike with problems but I don't want to loose lots of money. Every time I have a problem and get it fixed I think that will be the last problem, and now I will be able to enjoy the ride but then something else happens. These are the problems I've had so far. Boiling fuel and fuel smell (I fixed it) Gas drips on muffler from vent (I fixed) Rear O2 sensor went bad Communications Error second day ( I fixed low battery power) P0193 fuel pressure code (still pops up sometimes) Low speed surge buck (normal?) Baro sensor upside down and full of water (I fixed) Parasitic draw killing battery( I diagnosed and dealer fixed) New cluster defaults back to econ every key on Stalls sometimes when first started Fuel pump primes every 10 seconds after shut off for 10 min. Fuel pressure won't hold. Low fuel light comes on with full tank of fuel I like the bike but it is getting on my nerves. I would like a buy back but there is no lemon law in Michigan. I bought the bike to ride and have fun but the fun has not lasted very long between problems. The last ride was 80 miles after I got it back from the dealer and that is when it started to have the fuel pressure problem. I've bought used stuff before and got screwed and don't want to do that to someone with this bike. I would love to have it working properly but don't know if it ever will. I have 1000 miles on the odo now. I baby this thing and treat it well but it still seems to hate me. I would love some advice. | ||
| Doerman |
As to whether you sell it or not, that's a personal decision. Can't help you there. It is strange to me that some of the 'leven25s have a laundry list of issues like yours and mine is pert near perfect (8kMiles). Looking at the list of issues, seems to me that perhaps your bike has a cracked fuel rail? | ||
| Brad1445 |
I have read your past post, you are a good parent. But unlike a real child you can get rid of this one. And you should as life is two short if your intent is riding vs working on it. Yours bike may just be possessed by the devil temporarily but you will always be leery at this point. I would not worry about guilt of selling said possessed bike as it's well know it's a first year bike. Not that that is a excuse, but, ok, so it's an excuse. Go get a new bike. My Favorite bike of all time was my Ulysses yet we had to part ways as my frustration grew over repeat problems. I know that feeling of love/hate. (Message edited by brad1445 on July 02, 2008) | ||
| Chevycummins |
Doerman, I'll trade ya! I have less miles! This seems to be my luck with stuff. There could have been 100 bikes to choose from and I would pick the one with problems. I guess I could just tell an interested person that it has a 2 year warranty and I have had some problems. | ||
| Pizzaboy |
you seem to have had amplified amounts of problems compared to most owners.. i find that odd. i have had quite a few of the same problems you have had.. plus some that you have not mentioned. i have my dealer working on a new instrument cluster because mine is glazing over - as though the sun is burning it and making it only translucent in a few areas. also my front O2 sensor throws a check engine light just about every time the outside temp is over 95 degrees (or about twice a week so far- remember i live in reno, Nevada. also i think that the fuel MPG calculation is off, and the outside temperature on the cluster is completely dumb (it is not accurate, as though the sensor is in a bad place to get an accurate air temp reading), it tells me the outside temp is 120 degrees when the engine is warm and i am at a stop light. also you have not mentioned that hot starts SUCK ASS on this bike.. it takes FOREVER to crank when the coolant temp is over 190 degrees, and you turn the bike off for more than 3 minutes.. it takes over an hour of sitting for it to fire up right off the bat if the engine is hot.. otherwise its is atleast 5 secs of cranking to fire. the ONLY problem that has seriously frustrated me with this bike so far(2800miles on the odometer today) is that the battery was almost COMPLETELY dead after leaving the bike sitting for 3 days.... and took 3 days to get it charged again- while i had to drive my 12mpg diesel truck in the meantime. i have had the boiling fuel smell a few times, Comm error, low speed surge, parasidic draw on battery, stalls when first started(95% of the time, and seen the fuel pump continually prime when the bike is off (only time it has done that was when i was dickering with the battery trying to get it charged up again.. only time its done it so far) i have not seen your other problems with MY bike, and though my problems are unique it has not jaded my opinion of the bike. i like it AT LEAST as much as my S2 thunderbolt that i STILL cannot let go of! i cant believe you ONLY have 1000 miles on your bike. i am pretty sure you have had yours longer than ive had mine. i recommend you beat the living crap out of it. take it on a track day, take it on a windy road. whack the throttle open, pop wheelies, do a couple stoppies, lean it wayyy down, race it a while, rev the crap out of it, obey the 2-throttle-position rule (either wide open, or full closed and on the brakes). drive it like you stole it. i seem to remember hearing from a couple owners who said that their bikes responed and worked better after beating on them for a day. shit man, put some miles on that thing! drive the piss out of it and come back in 3k miles and let us know what you think at 4k miles.. or 5k. ill have well over 6k miles on my 11 by the time i have to put it away for the winter- and i just bought it on may 20th!!! (Message edited by pizzaboy on July 02, 2008) | ||
| Misterrich |
My fuel pump is doing the same thing after i shut the bike off. Driving me crazy. | ||
| Cobradave93 |
Chevy, was the rear O2 sensor part of the fuel smell, boiling fuel, and gas dripping on the muffler? Just asking because mine has the same issues and so far Buell had dealer replace the fuel vent. Or did you fix it by wrapping the rear header? | ||
| Alans |
Chevycummins, here is my advice. This is based on my experience of working with a bureaucracy in another context, and the methods that have worked for me. You need to do 8 things. You appear to have done # 1 already: 1.) List each problem you're having with the bike, along with your description of each. Note whether the problem is 'static' (is present and observable at all times), or 'dynamic' (is present only at certain times.) 2.) Keep a 'journal' of dynamic problems. This can be one of those small, paper tablets, or an e-copy. The important thing is to note each and every instance when a dynamic problem expresses itself; include the problem name, and the date the problem occurs. If it occurs frequently enough, include time-of-day, too. 3.) Referencing your written list, address your problems with the bike to your dealer. Give the service manager a copy of your list, and you keep a copy. Go over the list, and agree to which problems are being addressed, on each visit. When you pick the bike up, note how each problem was addressed by the dealer. If they state no problem was found, or disagree that a problem exists, note their exact statement. If at all possible, get them to document their statements. They probably will anyway, on the service order. Note: Do not leave the bike with the dealer on a 'verbal'. Have them fill out 'the paperwork' and treat it as a formal service action. I'd be very wary if they won't document the service action. This is simply because you'll have no paper-trail to prove or disprove your efforts in regard to getting your bike fixed. 4.) For those items that are 'fixed' during this process, you're done. For those items that remain unresolved, continue on... 5.) After the dealer has had the opportunity to address each of the problems on your list, go back over your list and decide which of the problems that remain unresolved are significant to you. That is, which ones can you live with, and which can you not live with. 6.) For all the unresolved, "can't live with this" problems that remain, take your list to the service manager, ask for a few minutes of his time, and discuss the issues with him/her. Present them to the SM, and say something like: "SM, these are things I feel are significant problems with the bike. They are things your service department has already addressed, in the following ways..." Then, go through each service order, one by one, and discuss each. Make sure to keep the issues separate and distinct, don't just hand him a handful of papers. Focus on each problem in its turn, and discuss each one. Make sure he understands what the problem is, and make sure you understand his position on each issue. Note each of his responses on your list. 7.) Document the SM's response to each item in (6). Anything that he agrees to readdress, make arrangements for. Then repeat the foregoing process for these items. 8.) Items that are unresolved at the conclusion of this process should be addressed to Buell Customer Service. You should already have times/dates and all the other pertinent information that will make clear your concerns. General Notes: You might have an issue with your dealer. You will not be able to prove this unless you document your interactions with them thoroughly. If there is such an issue, it will mask or supersede the bike problems--you'll never get to the point where the problems are addressed because the dealer simply won't try, or won't try very hard. This is going to require some effort (work) on your part. You are in the unfortunate position of having a bike that has a number of issues that don't sit well with you. I don't think the 'self help' route is always the best way to go. In light of your comments that you don't want to simply pass on your own 'bad luck' to someone else, then you might view your attempts to correct issues with the bike in a new light. Namely, did you address them to the formal process and so go on record? If you did, then these are data points BMC can use to substantiate--or even recognize--that these issues exist and are of significant enough numbers to warrant addressing in a concerted manner. If you simply addressed the issues--without reporting them--then you have done nothing to fix the root cause of the problems; and in fact, you might have harmed that cause. This is going to be work for you. No way around it. You have to take time to write things down, you have to fight the urge to take short-cuts with the process, and you have to negotiate with certain players in the process and hold their feet to the fire. This can be unpleasant if you haven't done it before and nave no experience. In fact, it's something of an art, i.e. getting people to commit without offending them and/or turning them against you. You want these people to be on your side as far as you can get them to be. Once it becomes apparent to the various players that you are actually keeping track of details--and writing it all down--you will notice a shift in the way you are dealt with. People will do one of two things: They will appear to be angry with you, or--more likely--they will begin to listen and to take you seriously. Those who take the 'angry' approach are the bottom-feeders in the bureaucracy. These are the ones who want to do the least amount of work for the greatest amount of pay. Stop before you say we're all that way--we're not. In fact, most of us aren't. But if you do find yourself in that category, no worries--you won't have done any of this, anyway. As for those who begin to take you seriously, they'll take you seriously because you have given them something substantive to work with. Remember: Hundreds of people a week pass through a dealer service department. Make it as easy as you can for the staff to help you by presenting your case in as clear and concise a manner as possible. My bike has some of the issues you've recounted. However, they don't bother me to the same extent, and I do not have nearly as many issues. Sorry for the long post. A lot of us come here, to this site, to 'vent'. This is my opinion. Others come to obtain information. Most of us do both, alternately. It's the approach you finally settle on that will determine whether you get your issues fixed, or not. One last thing: Even though there is no "Lemon Law" in Michigan, you might still have some recourse, via the legal system, to 'relief' related to your motor vehicle. I'm not an attorney, and you need to speak to one to see what you might do in this regard. But one thing I'm sure of, if there is the possibility of bringing your case before a judge, the better documented your case is, the more likely you are to prevail in it. I reread this and it made sense to me to summarize the hierarchy of complaint. Each of the following should be done in numeric order, and as the methods peculiar to each rung on the ladder are exhausted, move to the next rung... 1.) Report problem to service organization. 2.) Report problem to service organizatin manager. 3.) Report problem to store manager (not listed above). 4.) Report problem to Buell customer service. I forgot to mention--and it's important--a bureaucracy likes you to touch each 'rung' on your way up the ladder. If you skip one, that is liable to short-circuit your effort. With that said, make sure you report your issues to the dealers general manager before reporting them to BMC. (Message edited by alans on July 02, 2008) | ||
| Carmell |
I totally agree with Pizzaboy. I wailed on this thing hard one day on some So Cal mountain roads ( wont say where, because I pissed off some rice burners when they got passed )and it ran so smooth afterwards. She definately responds well to getting nailed hard. | ||
| Chevycummins |
Thanks to all that have replied. Cobradave93, The bike was at the dealer for the first time for the boiling gas fuel smell. It was there for 14 days while they were "working on it". They gave it back to me and said it was "normal". The boiling gas had nothing to do with the O2 sensor. I wrapped the rear exhaust pipe to the head and have had no more boiling gas or fumes. Pizzaboy, one of the reasons the bike has so few miles on it is its been at the dealer for over 30 days all together. Then it rains when I have it back. I don't mind to ride in the ran but don't like how dirty the bike gets. I do have a trip in the working for a track day with some friends. Also I have never had a hot start issue. Knock on wood. Alans, I think I do have some dealer issues. The second time it was at the dealer my sales person came out to the shop and started blaming me for the problems. I think the bike had like 200miles at that time. He was vulgar with me and very rude and unprofessional. He said that I am the only person with problems out of the other 2 bikes they sold. He must be an expert, and a mechanic! I never get any paper work from the dealer even though I ask for it. When I call Buell they don't seem to have all the history on my bike. I have been documenting the problems and fixes. It just gets really old fast. I love the bike and just want it fixed but can't seem to get it done. | ||
| Black_snowman |
With all the work you've put into it I'd have trouble letting go, particularly knowing you'd loose money on the deal. If it were me I'd "fight the good fight" try to enjoy the bike as much as possible, and see if you can get the dealership to act right. I'm lucky in that I have a really good dealer. Some FYI below: "Stalls sometimes when first started" - I get this a lot. Pretty much any time it sits overnight. Stil, starts better than any of the carburated bikes I've had. "Fuel pump primes every 10 seconds after shut off for 10 min. Fuel pressure won't hold." - This drives me nuts too. It didn't start doing it until after my 1st dead battery. Since then it stays on the Tender. "Low speed surge buck (normal?)" - This comes and gos but I find lower outside temps and higher octane gas help. "  cluster lens] is glazing over, as though the sun is burning it and making it only translucent in a few areas." - Mine has a weird cloudy streak that looks like something dripped on it and a couple spots. I thought they were just dirt or drips from a cleaner, but they seem to be getting worse. "the fuel MPG calculation is off," Actually, it's spot on. The gas pumps only have to be +/- 10% accurate per Fed regs so gas stations keep them at -5% to still give them some margin for error but still rip us off. My brother used to calibrate them on a contract basis. So when you pump 20 gallons at the station you're only actually getting 19. "and the outside temperature on the cluster is completely dumb" It's in the intake so it gets a measure of the air coming into the motor since that's what the onboard computer needs to know. So at a stop light the radiators are blowing hot air into it. | ||
| Chevycummins |
Right now the fuel pump priming over and over again every 10 seconds bothers me. It just started to do this. You can watch the pressure drop on the cluster when in diag mode. It seems worse after the bike is run and the fuel is warm. I get no fuel leaking from the injectors or outside the engine. It must be leaking back through the check valve in the fuel pump back into the tank. I want to take it to the dealer to get it fixed but don't want to give up the bike for another week or more. I also have a diesel truck and really don't like to spend $110 for 22 gal of fuel. Thats one of the reasons I bought the bike, and I thought it would be fun. | ||
| Doerman |
You description there Chevy raises my suspicion of the fuel rail even more. The fuel rail is easily messed up when taking off the base plate under the airbox. And I am sure wrenches have been in there since you have had it back and forth to the dealer a few times. Just my .02. Hope you get her fixed, and quickly. | ||
| Mingo |
Chevy, put it for sale right here in the classified.Some of these guys are apparently fine with any or all of the problems your bike has had,let them have a go at it. | ||
| Chevycummins |
Mingo, I thought about that. I talked to a sales person for a Honda, Yamaha store and asked them if they take used bikes. I thought then it could be there problem. The sales person asked me what I had and I could only get out 2008 Buell 11 before he said NO. I asked why and he said "its a foreign bike look around" then he walked away. Now thats service! I really don't know if I would be any better off with a different bike. If someone needs my bike just PM me and we might be able to work something out. What was once my problem could now be yours! If your looking for a challenge then you need it. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Chevy - before you get rid of yours, try this - Warm up to temp - 151˚+ find somewhere you can ride 45 mph for 4 minutes straight. Do 45 mph, steady rpm at 4k in 3rd gear. re-check your AFVs in Diag Mode and see if they changed. Your 11 should have changed the AFVs and she should run MUCH better. Got all the pieces to the "learning puzzle" while at Homecoming. Also a very strong rumor of a fuel oriented reflash due out soon. Hang tough a little longer. Zack | ||
| Mustangturbo |
Write to Buell, send them copies of all of the service issues that you've been having with the bike. Let them know that you love the bike, but you are growing tired of the problems it is presenting. It is a small enough company that you may very well get a great response. Start there before you go anywhere else, and see what happens. | ||
| Doerman |
Warm up to temp - 151˚+ find somewhere you can ride 45 mph for 4 minutes straight. Do 45 mph, steady rpm at 4k in 3rd gear. re-check your AFVs in Diag Mode and see if they changed. Zac, sounds interesting. Can you elaborate on that. What does it do the ECM? | ||
| Hwyranger |
Warm up to temp - 151˚+ Just out of curiosity, am I the only one who does this everytime before I start riding? My commute is less than 10 miles, so you can imagine what my gas mileage is (burn more warming up than I do on the ride) I was just wondering because I was told to do this during break in when I got the bike and have been doing it ever since..I haven't had ANY problems with my bike. | ||
| Baggermike |
Zack how many green lights are on your battery gauge from Kuryakyn when riding, I just hooked up one on mine so I am curios. Mike | ||
| Spectrum |
Mike I have the Kuryakyn gauge and anything above 2k has 2 green lights. The second green is flashing till I get above 4.5k. Flashing means you are just below the threshold for that LED and solid means you are at or above the threshold. The threshold for the second green LED is 14volts. | ||
| Baggermike |
Hey spectrum I rode to the my dealership 100 non stop highway miles with one green light on and is the same battery light you have on but I had my high beams on, so they did the re flash and told me when they do the re flash they put a battery charger on the battery to have full power for re flashing, so they give me the bike back and as I am riding off I see both the engine light and battery light on so I turned around and rode back and it died going down hill and was like the bike was only hooked up to the battery and nothing else because it dropped fast just going around the block, then I had to push it the rest of the way, they finally agreed to test the voltage regulator and came back and said it was bad, I waited for hours and then they gave me the bike and rode home with just the low beams, I road home with out the high beams on and had one steady green and one blinking green and my battery was 12.5 after sitting 15 minutes, I think they did not replace it and just charged the battery, I am getting one green light today with low beams on and the motor got really hot over 220, I checked the voltage regulator today to see its output and 13.9 and goes down as revs increased, just like the the one that was in there was doing, on the highway going home I was riding at 4200 rpms and only one green and one flickering so it sounds like I got screwed again. what do you think Spectrum? everything is the same and I get one green light not two like you and I am going to start the bike again and see what happens, what I do not understand is how the battery got drained when the led gauge was green when I pulled in which means the battery had power and they drained it some how. Mike | ||
| Brad1445 |
Wow mike you have patience of Job | ||
| Baggermike |
I do not sweat the small stuff, the bike runs good and I know what I can and can not do with it. I have been fine going places and no problems, I bring it in to the shop and then problems, the shop must be filled with gremlins, hiding, just waiting for me to bring my bike in so they can screw it up on me | ||
| Steeleagle |
Take heart in the fact that they may now have SERVICE MANUALS!!! | ||
| Court |
Be mindful that those green lights are not the least bit accurate past the fact that two is more than one and three is more than two. Comparing two units is useless information and likely to lead someone to believe something silly. | ||
| Ducxl |
then I had to push it the rest of the way, | ||
| Baggermike |
Hey Greg it lost that much power that it would not even run and I coasted down hill. the service manuals are in and one is waiting for me so now I can know what I am doing. LOL. Mike | ||
| Spectrum |
The Kuryakyn gauge I have is pretty darn accurate. At least compared to the two other voltage meters I have, one analog and one digital. They all three report the same voltage. Mike 2 things. 1. I'd suggest your battery got drained as a result of the reflash and or bad voltage regulator. Make sure it is fully recharged before doing any other diagnostics. 2. Voltage should not drop as revs increase. My voltage output is about .4 volts lower (at any given rpm) when the bike is hot (200+) versus cool (below 185). | ||
| Baggermike |
Hey Spectrum I think the BS me because it does the same think and the same reading on my volt meter and does go down with increased rpms and I do remember a time that I seen the bike in the 14.5 volts and now only 13.9 or lower. |
