| Author | Message | ||
     Bigeasy |
Lets play a what if game. What if Buell were going to enter motogp next year? What would the bike look like? (come on you photoshop gurus) What engine configuration do you think it should have? Maybe a reverse crank like Yamaha to aid in handling? Carbon fuel in frame? Who would you have as the rider ect ect ect..... Thought it would be fun to see what people can come up with!! | ||
| Slaughter |
Let's see... Buell does MotoGP next year and after expending IN EXCESS of $100M - the business unit goes into failure, HD sells off all their assets. After Buell's collapse, the now-empty East Troy facility is used as a warehouse by HD. At least the tubers and XB's would have more collectors value in another 50 years. | ||
| Bigeasy |
Ok Ok but what would the bike be like? And in my fantasy world I have just won the biggest lottery ever!! I float Buell the 100million  So the funding is taken care of now on to the desighn of the bike. | ||
| Bigeasy |
maybe would look to tron for inspiration  She'd be fast down the straight!hanging off coulb be a problem though!  (Message edited by bigeasy on June 30, 2008) | ||
| Clarkjw |
I guess OP doesn't know much about MotoGP development. It's really quite pricey and quirky. Start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MotoGP Then think about why Aprilia isn't in the premire class. Then realize that even if Buell could make a competitive 800cc bike (likely a low tourque IL-4) with a chain, it would have no shot at meeting the massive demand all that marketing would create. Buell may be in World Superbike soon, but MotoGP is quite elite and expensive. | ||
| Mr_incognito |
I dont think the OP is asking about the price to develop a GP bike, I think he just trying to have a little fun with imagination.... | ||
| Jaimec |
With Yamaha being the exception, the most successful engine configuration in MotoGP is the V-4 which would seem a more natural fit for Buell to me... | ||
| Bigeasy |
 yep just having fun. V4 huh? I was thinking the same but would it be doable with fuell in frame? Or would it make the bike to wide. (Message edited by bigeasy on June 30, 2008) | ||
| Spatten1 |
Buell might as well build the next space shuttle. The MotoGP manufacturers are all very high level in-house race engine designers. Buell ain't. It takes many years and many mistakes/lessons to compete at that level. Sportster engine modifications just won't be applicable, and neither will designing "parameters" for a Rotax engine. I hate to be so negative, but it is out of respect for the years of hard work and commitment the current competitors have in their efforts. Buell just does not play in that area, not remotely. A Buell GP effort would have to be like the Buell drag race efforts: No Buell parts. | ||
| Bigeasy |
Everything you said is true and I agree. Was just trying to have a little fun. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Sorry, I take things too seriously way too often. My bad. | ||
| Slaughter |
I was a bit of a jerk when we were clearly looking to just have a little fun... I went and got all whiney and stuff. Let's say Erick and the Elves all win the Lotto and put all their winnings into the design and development of the bikes. I'm afraid it's likely that it'd "look" pretty much like all the others. Most likely pneumatic valves, V4... MAAAAYbe V3... interesting... | ||
| Bigeasy |
 AH yes a v3 would be sweet. I would quess that in a v config 2 cylinders would face forward in the wider part of the frame and 1 backward. I always wondered why the tails of the motogp bikes arent more like the xbrr. So I think the tail end of the Buell motogp bike would be more like the xbrr then the current crop gp machines. No problem slaughter! Was reading a great book my dad bought about all the motogp 990 bikes and what makes them tic. So it got me wondering  (Message edited by bigeasy on June 30, 2008) | ||
| Rex |
Hey , lets have fun and be creative. why not talk superbike entry....A lot of folks doing that one now. I know they cannot afford to do it, but it would be fun to discuss anyway..... or even AMA superbike.... | ||
| Elvis |
I've always been more of a World Superbike fan myself. Money is an issue, but there are other steps that they can be doing now (and are doing to some extent) as they try to collect enough money. Ultimately, they will have to be bigger to have the budget and sell the homologation bikes to compete in WSBK, so it would probably be a minimum of 5 years before they could be as big as they need to be, but here's how they could eventually get there: Step 1: Start racing in Canadian Superbike (Check) Step 2: Develop engine capable of approximately 170 HP for Canadian Superbike.(supposedly in process) Step 3: Start putting together a real team (either directly as Buell Racing or through an independant team such as Deeley/Ruthless Racing, Richie Morris/Burce Rossmeyer, etc.) (Being done - not sure how directly Buell is involved) Step 4: Hire a couple very good, very young riders. (I love the idea of Brett McCormick, and while I know he has had some connection with Buell in the past, he seems to be with Kawasaki now - there are rumors that Honda won't compete next year. I wonder what Hayes and Zemke are planning to do next year) Step 5: Race in AMA "Literbikes" with engine developed in Canadian Superbike. Step 6: Use lessons learned in AMA Literbike to develop 1200 cc homologation bike with 180 + HP, top suspension components, (traction control?) etc. Step 7: Get big enough to sell 3000 homologation bikes at $20 - $40K each. (this is the big step that we may keep us waiting quite a while). Step 8: Put aside enough money to compete in WSBK.   | ||
| Ducxl |
WHOA!!! Those racing COLORS!  Maybe BMC WILL ultimately race at national or international levels? In high profile categories. I just wonder what the bean counters will do when they can't justify the returns? Ducati Corse is a totally separate entity from their mothership.It helps mask the fact that racing does not inflate the bottom line.Racing is a passion i do not think H-D or BMC has...at least at the levels i've posted.And MotoGp is completely laughable,but i didn't take that seriously anyway | ||
| Elvis |
Ducati Corse is a totally separate entity from their mothership.It helps mask the fact that racing does not inflate the bottom line. It would be really interesting to take a look at their books and see exactly what kind of money goes in and out of Ducati Corse, wouldn't it? I'm sure there's still a lot of factory support since the racing program is Ducati's marketing department, but that support may come more as hardware support rather than direct financial funding. Ducati is in a great position (and they're there because they've done the hard work over the past 50 years to get themselves to where they are today) in that Ducati Corse probably can run nearly independently from the factory. They must have sponsors lined up around the block with some companies just waiting for some free space on a fairing or set of leathers to open up. In a play off of the old Harley joke, Ducati Corse probably makes more money in apparel sales than Buell's entire race budget. It will be very interesting to see what happens next year with DMG. Bruce Rossmeyer already has some big name sponsers, and with Moto-ST part of the AMA Buell should be entering 2009 with one of the top teams. While Buell will be eligible for both "Superbike" and "Literbike" (assuming the rules for Literbike don't change dramatically from pressure by Honda, Kawasaki and Suzuki), I'm not sure they have the riders or team to jump right in. Crevier, Higbee, Bilansky, Estok etc. are all great riders, but I doubt they can compete against riders like Spies and Mladin (though it looks like Spies probably will make the jump to Moto-GP). So while Buell could technically compete and has the hardware to be competitive, I think they'll need more money and probably a top level rider or two. If they can make the leap and commit the resources, I think the sponsorship money will be there. As an American motorcycle racing in an American roadracing series, I think there will be a lot of interest . . . if they can be competitive. And that's the Catch 22. They need to have a serious team to get the sponsorship money, but they need to get the sponsorship money to fund the serious team. They seem to be building toward that with their efforts in Canadian Superbike and Moto-ST, but they still have to make the jump at some point to get into the top AMA levels (a smaller jump than WSBK, but still a jump). Ducati doesn't need to worry about making any of those jumps. They're already there. All they need to do is maintain (and even though they don't have a big AMA presence right now, all it would take would be a few phone calls to put something together). Buell made a hardware leap with the 1125R, but they've still got some jumping to do. | ||
| Ceejay |
In know they are canadian and all but those Deeley guys sure know how to make a bike look good. Man that paint jobs almost bests the XB one-almost. Right now I'm hoping for some privateer efforts, even though I don't know much about how it would work or weather it would be feasable I just think that going to the track and seeing more than four manufactures and one engine layout would be/is gonna be cool. | ||
| Jaimec |
Harley Davidson certainly has the necessary resources to mount a serious MotoGP effort. Compare their resources to Ducati or Aprilia (Aprilia is one of the dominant brands in 125 and 250 GP). It's just that MotoGP participation holds no interest for their target market group. I think they learned their lesson with the XR1000 "Superbike" that their core market doesn't give a rat's ass about road racing. Damn shame. I'd LOVE to see another non-Japanese brand on a MotoGP grid. I'm disappointed the BMW rumors turned out to be false; with their Formula 1 experience they might've been able to get competitive fairly quickly. I'm also sorry that the Ilmor team pulled out after only one GP. That might've been interesting too (but the costs were prohibitive for such a small outfit). | ||
| Bigeasy |
Duc, I disagree on BMC not having the passion part. Just look at the man the company is named after. BMW has Ruben Xaus(sp?) for 2009 WSBK. I'd bet they will do well and the engine will be a monster with some things we haven't see before. But once again guys I was not serious about a in Buell motogp. I was just trying to have some fun about what a motogp bike from Buell would look like and some of the different features it could have. Wow you guys are to so uptight\clipart Lighten up!{joker} I have seen what some of the people on this forum can do with photoshop. So I thought we could have a little fun. | ||
| Jaimec |
I wonder what a carbon fiber "Frank" would look like? It would have to be able to hold 22 liters of fuel MAXIMUM (or have they lowered that to 21 liters now?). Or a carbon ZTL? A V-Twin would never be competitive with the same max displacement as the fours even with the weight advantage. It would have to be a V-Four. Wonder how you'd mass-centralize a four-into-one or four-into-two exhaust? I agree... fun speculation! | ||
| Kttemplar |
Here is an interesting Buell  Mike | ||
| Spatten1 |
I'd bet they will do well and the engine will be a monster with some things we haven't see before. The ironic thing about the BMW superbike is that they dropped all of their signature frame, suspension, and engine technology in favor or building exaclty what the Japanese build. Regular upside-down forks, perimeter frame, standard rear suspension set-up, transverse 4-in-line, etc. You can bet your ass that Buell would drop that ZTL like a bad habit if they had to compete in World Superbike. There is a reason that all of the factories use similar technology. The amazing thing is that a company as small as Ducati can compete in WSB. However, if they do end up dominating too much the rules will change again, or Honda will build another V-Twin that crushes Ducati, again. Now how Ducati is doing so well in GP is amazing. Very impressive, to say the least. | ||
| Spatten1 |
It would be really interesting to take a look at their books and see exactly what kind of money goes in and out of Ducati Corse, wouldn't it? Very interesting. They are public, so the info may be in the 10k/10Qs. I may have to dig through the docs to try and figure that out. |
