| Author |
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Canuk
| | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 12:55 pm: | 
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My new-to-me lightning (2000 X1) would idle fine until recently. I pulled the plugs and they were black and sooty. I put in new ones and within a block it still sputtered backfired and ran terrible. Second set was the same. Fouled (black dry and sooty).
It's not blowing any smoke, compression is good... Any suggestions on my next step (or 3?)
From my reading here i'm wondering 02 sensor? engine temp sensor?
ps. i fired it up in the garage a few times in freezing temps.. yes, not good. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 02:36 pm: |
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How does it run when it is good and warmed up?
Could be bad fuel, dirty injectors, TPS out of calibration...
Does it run poorly in all scenarios, high rpm and WOT for instance, or just for more sedate situations.
Black and sooty is not the same as fouled. A fouled spark plug will be encrusted with gunk.
Is the bike stock or has the intake and/or exhaust tracts been modified? |
Canuk
| | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 03:33 pm: |
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Good Questions Blake.. It appears to have a V&H pipe, and stock ECM and intake. I will drain the gas and refill with fresh tonight.
would some type of injector cleaner poured in the tank be a good idea?
It appears to run poorly throughout the RPM range... and even when warmed up (20min. ride).
thanks again.
j |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 06:07 pm: |
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What do you mean that "it appears to run poorly throughout the RPM range"? Either it does or it doesn't.
What happens when it is fully warmed up and you take to the highway and accelerate hard up to speed? Then what happens when you throttle back to a steady cruise at highway speed?
If you want help, we need excruciatingly detailed information.
At what RPM do you upshift? |
Canuk
| | Posted on Thursday, April 10, 2008 - 09:14 pm: |
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It's raining here so I'll get information on the how it feels at acceleration/deceleration, cruise tomorrow.
From what I can remember from my ride, it was worse at cruise or idle than at hard accel. I don't know at what RPM i shifted but I'll pay better attention next time.
As far as weather or not it appears to be running poorly.. "Poor" is a subjective attribute and for someone (me) with no experience, who has read copious reviews on these 'sport' V-Twins (good and bad), some of which suggest they run 'poorly' by nature i'm basing my assessment on nothing more than what I expect it should run like. Based on that, it runs like S**T. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, April 11, 2008 - 04:54 pm: |
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Be careful with injector cleaners, some may damage the rubber seals and or O2 sensor. But if they puport to be safe for such components, then it probably won't hurt to try them. |
Canuk
| | Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 10:16 pm: |
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Ok, I drained all the gas filled it with fresh 91octane and took it for a ride.
It will barely (and not always) idle. It is very rough and even hard to control at very low RMP (<2000).
At constant speed it sputters at any rpm
At deceleration (no throttle) it seems smooth at all rpm
At full throttle is is rough (sputters) until 3500rpm, then is pretty good to 5000 rpm (pulls hard and smooth between 3500 and 5000).
the bike wont go past 5000 rpm. It acts like it has a governor.
I didn't go with the injector cleaner to be safe. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Saturday, April 12, 2008 - 10:46 pm: |
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Hmmm, rough running under 5k rpms sounds like maybe it's an O2 sensor problem. The O2 sensor governs engine operation from idle to approx 4500 rpms, I believe. But the TPS sensor needs to be calibrated correctly too.
Or it could be leaky intake manifold seals.
Sorry that there seems to be a lot of what if's, but each of these needs to be checked out competently. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 01:53 am: |
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Sounds like your bike needs a good check over and tune-up. Find a good dealership and giterdone. |
Roadrunr
| | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 07:02 am: |
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Check to make sure your firing on both cylinders. My X1 plug fouled on the front one and it ran rough like that. Run it for a couple minutes then feel both heads. Should be equally hot. |
Canuk
| | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 11:17 am: |
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Thanks guys. I'll check both cylinders. Check intake seal (what's the best way to do that?)
I do have a dealer here but They rarely see buells and seem to know little. There is an independent bike shop that the harley guys recommend, that's my recourse if it isn't a simple fix (02 sensor... etc.). I really enjoy doing the work if I can. |
Canuk
| | Posted on Sunday, April 13, 2008 - 01:00 pm: |
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both cylinders are warm... if I clean the plugs they both end up dry and black.
I sprayed carb cleaner all around the intake (front, rear, under) and the RPM didn't change. It wont idle on it's own but I had the throttle cracked enough for it to stay at 1000rpm when i did the spraying. |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 08:31 am: |
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The engine needs to be closer to 2000 rpm to check for intake leak. If you take your Buell to a shop that is not intimately familiar with Buell motorcycles, especially those with fuel injection, you are asking for a huge lump of trouble. I'd sooner just start replacing suspect sensors and other components.
Have you tried adjusting the idle speed up to where it will idle properly, at around 1000 rpm? If you don't have a service manual, that would be priority #1.
Good luck and let us know what you find.
One prime candidate would be a TPS reset/rezero. You'll need special equipment to do that. Either the commercial VDSTS or ECMSpy and a cable, and also a computer to hook to the bike. |
Roadrunr
| | Posted on Monday, April 14, 2008 - 05:45 pm: |
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Since you changed your plugs (and I am assuming you installed the correct ones) go to your plug cables and check them, next check your battery to make sure it is charging/outputting correctly and you have good connections, then check your coil, then ignition module then the ignition sensor, vapor vent. After that you get into IAT sensors, TPS and or fast idle screws not set properly, fuel injectors etc...I have a repair manual, so if you need the steps for anything just e-mail me and I will be glad to scan or photo all pages needed. Good luck bud. |
Canuk
| | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 01:03 pm: |
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thanks guys. we had a winter storm roll through so the snow and cold had put my project on hold for now... |
Ralf_m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 12:20 pm: |
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Hello all,
Haven't been around for a bit.Was intrigued by this one as I have exactly the same problem with my 2000 X1.So far have changed the temp and 02 sensors with no change.Will have to address some of the other issues but let me know if you have any luck |
Ralf_m
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 12:23 pm: |
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Mr Canuk!!,
Just one other question does it seem like yours is running rich.Mine will flood in an instant if you're not careful. |
Buell2448
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 06:18 pm: |
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make sure you do an ohms check on the wires, my front wire was bad and had the same problem on my 99 X1 |
Pammy
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 07:00 pm: |
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"I sprayed carb cleaner all around the intake"
O2 sensors and rubber parts are suseptible to damage from 'carb' cleaner.
I think there is an O2 safe contact cleaner that would work for the intake leak test.
Blown head gasket sucks air as well.
Check for a cracked/loose exhaust.
If you have an air leak of any kind it could play havok with your injection system especially in closed loop.
If it has set for any length of time the injectors may be quagged up. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 07:37 pm: |
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I've squirted some of that "Quick Start" spray, which is basically ether, to find intake leaks. When you find a leak, the engine smoothes out and idles faster. Ether hopefully won't harm the O2 or rubber parts, will it? |
Pammy
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 07:40 pm: |
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Sparky, I am not sure about ether. We don't use it. Heck plain old water will change the idle as well. |
Canuk
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 04:22 pm: |
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Thanks Guys.. I was out of town for a month working so I left with a local shop. i'm picking it up today but i understand it is not completely fixed. it now idles but misses here and there. I'll update with more current info shortly.
wow, what an adventure. |
Canuk
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 10:04 pm: |
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$170 later and it performs exactly like i described above. I HATE taking stuff to mechanics, i just went through this with a snowmobile. $700 later and i'm right where I started with that too.
I'll proceed with cleaning injectors. |
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2000 X1 Fouling and backfiring...