| Author | Message | ||
     Deks69 |
Ok bought some pro series plugs for my XB12R 06 with race pipe and Race ECM, air filter the whole kit. Saw I was running the stock plugs so decided to try the Pro-Series plugs. Gapped them to 0.030 as the maintenance manual said. Bike was running like shit after the install. (however was just a quick test, didn’t bolt down the air box ect. Waiting on race wires) So I checked the stock ones, and they where gapped at 0.035. Would there be any reason for this? Should I pull out the Pro-Plugs and gap them to this? The bike ran great with the stock plugs, other than since I started running a little octane booster, it would some times stall on take off. My thoughts on this is the plugs were not keeping up with the higher octane gas. (Gas has also been shit around here lately, reason for the boost) Could be running like shit too, because I pulled off one of the ends of the plug wire getting them out!!! Fixed it though, but maybe not good enough? Ordered some 8mm race wires from Ironmachine so this may fix the rough running. I don’t want to pull out these plugs again if I don’t have to. Would that gap really make much of a difference? Or should I just wait and see what the new wires do for me? Or do I have to do some ECM reprogramming if I run the plugs gapped at 0.030 as manual says. I don’t know if you set the computer to the gap of your plug or if it cares. Dont know why it came from the show room floor Gapped at 0.035 either. Any thoughts on this? Oh bought the bike with Race kit installed straight from the dealer. Thought it was pretty silly to have all the pro shit and have stock plugs?? So that’s why I got the pro’s. | ||
| Djkaplan |
So I checked the stock ones, and they where gapped at 0.035. Would there be any reason for this? Plug gap usually becomes wider during operation because of electrode erosion. 5/1000 of inch isn't much to get worked up about in a low stress stock application anyway. My thoughts on this is the plugs were not keeping up with the higher octane gas. Not keeping up? Not sure what you mean by that. I highly doubt you'll notice any difference with 8mm wires, but they usually come in snazzy colors. There is an old saying in the hotrodding that applies to motorcycling; 90% of the problems you think you have with ignition systems are actually fuel system problems. (Message edited by djkaplan on June 22, 2008) | ||
| Deks69 |
Not keeping up? Not sure what you mean by that. Spark was not keeping up with the higher octane fuel. Not completely burning it up, thinking a better plug would have a more efficiant burn. Also the bike has 5k+ on it, the plugs look almost new, so I dont think it erodied down. I'm sure they gapped them at 0.035. Just trying to figure out if I should gap these new plugs the same or go by the manual. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Incomplete combustion (in a stock application) has little to do with the spark from the sparkplug if everything is working correctly (coil, no plug fouling, etc). Just gap the plugs to the recommended specs... they'll eventually open up anyway. | ||
| Simple |
gap changes or different heat ranges in plugs usually is only needed when compression ratio has been changed, or boost/nitrous is added. gap them to stock spec. unless you fall into the above. | ||
| Deks69 |
Since I gapped them to the manual and installed them before I checked the stock plugs they are all ready gapped to spec. 0.030 I sure as hell am not going to take them out again!  thanks for the responses, putting the bike back together now. Hope the damn thing runs right. | ||
| Sloppy |
That's the great thing about all mechanical things. They run as good as you put them together  There will be no performance advantage to running upgraded ignition systems on these bikes since the engine will grenade far before you outrun the ignition limitations (8000 rpm is nothing for today's ignition system); unless you count the decrease weight from your wallet. I have had people give me their cars to work on after they give it a "tune up" and found that when they installed the plug that they accidently mashed the electrode to a near "0" gap... | ||
| Aj06bolt12r2 |
I believe that you are worrying about a non issue. That small of a diff in plug gap will not make any noticeable changes in the way your bike runs... but the octane boost may be hurting your 02 sensors, make sure its compatible. | ||
| Ohio_xb12 |
I learned the smashed plug gap lesson while changing a set of plugs on a Ford Taurus. Goes back to the old addage of figuring out what you "fixed" last and relating it to why the car/bike isn't running right now. | ||
| Ratbuell |
5k miles is plenty to erode .005" of electrode. Not a sign anything's wrong, just normal wear. Think about how many times a second that little lightning bolt fires in there - every one vaporizes an atom or two. I'd withhold judgement until you get 2 good plug wires on there. | ||
| Xl_cheese |
on my 04 xb12 the manual says to gap the plugs at 0.035??? did the spec change over the different model years? | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
gap to .035 if you go hotter on the plug go wider on the gap if cooler go smaller like .032 gaps are a good thing to keep track of. we did dyno runs and found different data with different gaps. i set mine to a race plug gaped at .35 with them indexed dead center between the valves. this works best for me. mike | ||
| Sloppy |
If my math is right, ~33 times a second at 4000 rpm... (4000 rpm / 60 sec/min / 2 rev. / spark) Typically you close the gap as your rpm and compression increase in order to make sure you have a spark with enough energy to start a flame kernal. But just like ignition timing, it's the dyno that will determine what you should run. (Message edited by sloppy on June 24, 2008) | ||
| Drfuyutsuki |
IMO its is more likely that its your ECM having to remap. Even though its the race ECM its gonna take time to run 'Right.' Either that or find someone who can push a custom map to it. (Message edited by drfuyutsuki on June 25, 2008) | ||
| Deks69 |
Edit: Doh, the manual did say 0.035. I have no Idea where I read 0.030. I serously did read it somewhere in the maintance manual. Might have been a typo on one stupid page. I pulled them anyway and regaped. After I got my system down for pulling the plugs it was no big deal. An old spark plug rubber goes along way.  I haven't even been able to put 5 miles on the thing since I upgraded. So we will see how the ecm responds, it's not running bad, just a ruff idle now. I did notice a little more torque in first gear however. Seemed to want to pull the front wheel off the ground a lot easier, and as far as the octane boost I use, I only put in like a shot glass worth to a full tank. Not a whole lot, but seems to make the gas a whole lot better. I've heard it can reck the fuel system. But even with just a splash? I'm using it to make the quality of gas better. I use the STP (barely street legel) Octane Booster. Used it in my older buells and didnt ever run into problems. But like i said It's not like I add much. Since the gas price hike, it's just like the gas is shit or something. Even noticed a decrease in gas mileage in my car. So now I ussally ad a bottle of STP Gas treatment, and my mileage has went back up. It's really not to bad when you can get 3 bottles of the stuff for 2.50, and it restores the crap gas you get at the pump so I am actally getting decent mileage again with my car. Noticed the buell loves the sip of octane booster to a full tank too. But by all means if someone knows if the STP Octane booster screws anything up let me know. I've never had a problem with it so far. But then again I ussally sell my buells at about 10k. (Message edited by deks69 on June 25, 2008) | ||
| Sloppy |
Exactly what kind of increases in gas mileage are you getting? Have your local dyno test the bike with different fuel. Data good man, data... | ||
| Davidoforlando |
I heard on the news that the Ethanol being added to gas is decreasing miles per gallon... Anybody else heard this? | ||
| Retrittion |
Yep, Ethanol is being added to the gas at many stations around here and it does decrease your mileage (some estimates I have read say to expect 15%-30% less). In that case I can see a an octane booster being a big help to bring the gas back to what the Buell might like best. Does sound like your ECM needs time to adjust -- take it out and run steady RPMs using low amounts of throttle (I have heard 5 min at 40mph/3000RPM-ish) will let your ECM re-learn how to run. If that doesn't help it's time for some ECMspy time. You should be fine though -- I know my 12R idled rough after my SpecOps was installed and it actually died on me at the first light but since then it runs almost perfect (a bit of spying time should fix the last few bits). | ||
| Deks69 |
Yeah ECMspy (waiting on my cable) is my next thing on the list. I took it out today and it was running awesome. But it still bounces around at idle surging from 1k to 1300k. Im not worried about gas mileage on the bike, Just want it to run smooth, it does seem to go more miles with a little octane boost though, and the front wheel doesn’t like to stay on the road in first gear with the extra boost either, hell I pulled a wheelie in second today too. Might be the Pro-Series plugs, I don't know but I can feel the extra Ponies. I can just tell by how it responds. You can tell when something has more power. Don’t need a dyno to tell yah. I bought the thing with 1 mile on it, had it since the thing was born. I can tell when its go more go.. And it definitely has more go with a shot of octane boost compared to regular 91 unleaded.(even before the new plugs) Basically when I lived near a station that sold 93, is pretty much how it feels again. But even the 91 without the boost now days feels like my bike hates it, and lacks power. I'm still standing by it, they have done something to the gas. It's CRAP! However just by adding a 99 cent bottle of the gas treatment to a fill up in my car has given me my regular mileage back. Exactly what kind of increases in gas mileage are you getting? No dyno guy around. Wasn’t talking about my bike. What I meant about better gas mileage was the mileage my car is supposed to get. For example before the watered down, or 10% ethanol shit it took half a tank to go 110 miles. Now it takes 3/4ths a tank to go the same. But with the STP gas stuff Im back to half a tank. So may it be the ethanol or I still think they are watering it down. (many gas stations are going out of business because the gas price hike is killing them) that the only way for them to make a little money is by adding something to the gas. Ethanol I've heard does decrease gas mileage in cars that are not setup to run it. I definitely know my car doesn’t like the shit. So I can assume the bike isn’t getting as good as mileage either. I was more concerned on how it was running on just plain fuel from the pumps, which wasn’t that great. | ||
| Petebueller |
Ethanol mix with my XB with a stock exhaust gave more pre-detonation. I filled up with a 10% ethanol fuel this tank to check the impact since I fitted the Micron and had it mapped. No pre-detonation but it is a bit rougher. I've found in my car that around town consumption isn't really affected by the alcohol, but that highway consumption is 10% more. 10% more and 10% ethanol sort or seems to say it does nothing. | ||
| Sloppy |
There are two characterstics with ethanol mix: there is lower energy value in ethanol than in gasoline. it requires a higher fuel to air ratio than gasoline. So two things need to happen to get your performance back - run richer and increase compression. BTW, alcohol (Ethanol) is already used as an octane booster... so if you're using an octane booster when you don't have a problem with too high of a compression you're getting less energy out of your tank of gasoline! Do a MPG and dyno or 1/4 mile test. Get the data. | ||
| Deks69 |
BTW, alcohol (Ethanol) is already used as an octane booster... so if you're using an octane booster when you don't have a problem with too high of a compression you're getting less energy out of your tank of gasoline! This stuff says it's made with jet fuel. Thanks for the info though, didnt think of that. Like I said I havent noticed a drop in mileage on my bike, just really highway miles on my car. That the adative solves. The bike just seems like it lacks power now from the gas at the pumps, compared to the older days. Which the octane boost seems to restore. I will have to track down a dyno guy and see what's up. Wanted to anyway just so I know the 103hp's Im telling everyone I have is the truth. Thanks for the advice guys. I am really liking these pro-series plugs. Seems to have increased my acceleration. Looked down at the speedo today after getting on the on ramp to the highway, and was doing 110 buy the time I got on the highway! Dont remember it ever being that quick. Didnt even know till I looked down. Doh' nice way to get a huge ticket. (Message edited by deks69 on June 27, 2008) | ||
| Deks69 |
Got my cable but when I connect it to my laptop and the bike EMCspy is not reading it. EMCSpy says comport 2 open, but it times out if I try to do anything, and none of the gages respond. Anyone have an issue like this. My laptop has vista, and installed drives for the cable automatically. Cant even get the ones off the site to install. Dont know if its a port problem or a vista ecmspy problem. The trouble shooting guide has nothing on the port settings either. Nice guide. |
