| Author | Message | ||
     Sloppy |
I see that Buell paper air filters are getting pricey, about $40! Does anyone know of a PAPER filter replacement? I have a K&N but I wasn't impressed by how much dirt passed through it (I live in a farming community so we have a lot of dust). | ||
| Ratbuell |
a) more oil on the k&n b) use a foam prefilter like on a garden tractor I think you're going to find most paper filters are about the same price... | ||
| Jramsey |
A K&N properly installed and maintained will out last the vehicle its installed on. If you using a breadbox I'd bet the snorkle/filter/o-ring fit is the problem. I have a 1990 Dodge Cummins with 570,000 miles on the clock,the original air filter was replaced at 20,000 miles with a K&N and still going strong. | ||
| Sloppy |
Sorry, K&N's just can't filter as well as paper (heck, even the Factory doesn't say it filters as well as paper!). Hold a K&N up to a strong light source and you will see direct light shine through (that's on a properly oiled out of the box filter). Do the same to paper and no light shines through. Thanks for the suggestion rat -- maybe I'll use a foam prefilter to make the paper filters last longer. | ||
| Djkaplan |
My engine has been exclusively filtered by a K&N on my Forcewinder for over 40k miles, but I've had to replace the filter because of wear. After a number of years, the cloth started wearing thin in a few places in the pleats because of the constant blasting effect of fine particles hitting it. I still use k&N filters, though. I'm not so sure another type of filter would be as good as a K&N in a Forcewinder application. | ||
| Jos51700 |
I personally don't like the K+N, but I think they work fine for city use. On a farm or in a third-world country, I am inclined to think dust is an issue. Maybe, maybe not, but on my bike, I won't risk it. I know for ATV's, they have a fine (Almost like silk) pre-screen, which I have seen on forcewinders, too. I don't know if that gets fine dust or not, but it might be worth looking into. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I had one of those when I got my Forcewinder. It blew off years ago when the elastic band around it stopped elasticizing. | ||
| Jramsey |
All you K&N filter doubters need to take a trip to your local dirt track and take a look at the filters used on sprint and stock cars, Those guys don't want any dirt whatsoever getting in their $20,000 + engines whether through the intake or the valve covers breathers. I'd bet both my nuts and the cost of your pit pass that 98% of the cars are K&N equipped. The most popular K&N prefilter is made by OUTERWARES and is only intended to keep large chunks of mud, dirt and rocks from lodging between the pleats of the filter. | ||
| Tom_b |
K&N filters don't filter as well? Whatever. a dust scren around a k&n will out filter and provide more power than anything else on the marktet | ||
| Sloppy |
Yes, K&N's typically flow more air than paper filters. Yes, you will typically make more power with a fresh K&N vs. a fresh paper filter. Yes, they're great for racing or applications where you rebuild engines frequently (like in racing) or when you're income is dependent upon racing... Yes, they are great racing filters... I use them in my go-karts and on track days. But K&N's still don't filter as well as paper filters. Go ahead, check their website - K&N does not make the claim that they filters as well as or better than paper. Their only claim is that their filters pass their filtration test. Try sending them an email and see if you can get a straight yes or no answer -- I never did... I'm not saying K&N makes bad filters. They're great if you need all the power you can get. But I commute in farm community -- I need all the dust protection I can get... | ||
| Jramsey |
Sloppy I live on a farm that sits in the middle an area thats had strip mining for coal going on since the late 1930s--I need all the dust protection I can get.......so I use K&N filters on everything I own including my lawnmowers. No b/s. | ||
| Scott_in_nh |
I run a K&N (I do not live in a dusty area) but agree 100% with sloppy. I am NOT disagreeing with anybody's personal experience and believe you should run what you like! In example of my point: I use synthetic oil, it IS better than dyno oil, but that does not mean those of you who don't use synthetic are going to experience engine failure. Just because you use a K&N without problem is not proof that it filters as well as paper. Over at www.NAXJA.org (North American XJ Association (Jeep Cherokee)) the guys will tell you about the amount of dirt a K&N lets in while off-roading..... | ||
| Cruzinonline |
After reading this thread I'm going to convert my X1 to a oil bath bug catcher off a antique Massey-Ferguson tractor.  | ||
| Ratbuell |
Thanks for reminding me..I need to refill the oil bath on my mother-in-law's Nash before I take it for a spin again  | ||
| Djkaplan |
Paper or K&N, I'm just glad I'll never have to clean and oil a dual layer foam type deal again. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
how about foam? Has anyone here tried foam like on a dirtbike? | ||
| Jos51700 |
One thing to note here: I'm betting that JRamsey probably maintains his K+N's (s'far as I can tell, he keeps his stuff up), and I see a LOT that NEVER get any washing, oiling, or lovin'. A K+N that's dry doesn't filter worth a damn. And he makes a good point in another way, most racers maintain their filters alot better than the average rider/driver. I DO think a well-maintained K+N is not a bad thing, but I know alot of people (I'm one of them, hence my desire to not use K+N) DON'T regularly maintain them, and a good washing and oiling does make the K+N filter and flow the best. | ||
| Jos51700 |
BTW, which Buells had paper filters? All the ones I've seen were cotton or some other synthetic fibers. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I think the stock filter on my 2000 X1 was paper. It's been a while since I've seen it though. | ||
| Impala |
Found a link for a interesting filter test. It was preformed on a diesel filter but results should be similar. Most articls state that diesel filters have to filter smaller material due to tigher tolerances. http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm | ||
| Sloppy |
From K&N's website: "When used in normal paved road, street or highway conditions, our replacement air filters that fit in the factory air box should require cleaning every 50,000 miles" Yea, okay -- so according to the AUTHORITY, you need only CLEAN your filters say every 5 years!!!  Mine lasted about 2 months before I got a fine silt layer in my airbox... | ||
| Jramsey |
A fine layer of silt in the air box is better than it being after the air filter in the intake tract. Most "silt" in the air box is caused by over oiled filter and it drooled some of the excess off which is better than an under oiled one. K&N also use to state the dirtier their filters got the better they filtered. | ||
| Sloppy |
hmm... that silt I found was AFTER the air filter and all the way to the throttle body! Happened with a brand new out of the box K&N. Happened when it was over oiled (I admit I've done that). Happened when properly oiled. But it NEVER happened when I went back to paper... This is when I started my research and concluded that K&N's don't filter as well as paper for a variety of reasons (pore size, media depth, etc.) I'd challenge anyone to find documentation from K&N that makes the claim that they filter as well as paper. I never have been able to. Perhaps K&N doesn't make that claim because they know it can't... I'm not bashing K&N. I just don't use them because I know they don't filter as well as paper and I use my bike for commuting, not racing, so having 3 extra hp in the last 500 rpm of my motor isn't worth it to me (I had it compared on a dyno). Perhaps it's worth it to you. And that's cool -- it's all good. | ||
| Jos51700 |
I've never seen a K+N that wasn't bone dry after 10,000 miles, and most semi-dry after 5,000. That's all I base my "maintenance" assumptions on. I could see 50,000 on a very low performance machine, without a lot of airflow to pull oil off the filter. I too, would like to see filtration tests. I can't blame someone for running with a K+N, or a stocker. There are plusses either way. |
