| Author |
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Mr_incognito
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 05:02 pm: | 
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I understand the concept of you get what you pay for, but I got a VERY nice Akrapovic (which is a damn good pipe) for my Ninja for 600 bucks....Carbon Fiber, very well made and a very good power add-on....im just wondering what these companies are doing so much different than a very reputable company like Akrapovic to justify doubling the price of their stuff...
Im not very knowledgable on exchange rates, but if its that expensive here then would that mean its still pretty expensive over there?? |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 06:23 pm: |
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Amortization matters.  You know, selling/pricing an exhaust for a production run of 100,000 versus 1,000?
What you get also matters. You know, like a mere "race-only" system versus a full road legal kit comprised of a stainless steel intermediate pipe, a pre-silencer collector box, and the silencer tube with removable baffle.
Excellent point JaimeC! |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 06:28 pm: |
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Anyone here care to take a guess as to how much investment is required to develop and produce a road legal exhaust system like this? What amount of capital investment do you imagine is required before the first retail unit comes of the production line? Anyone?
Some folks seem to imagine that these kinds of products appear fully engineered out of thin air sprouting from the branches of the magic muffler tree. |
Bob_thompson
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 06:36 pm: |
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With reference to what Jaimec has said; I wonder just how many people really care about EPA certified exhaust systems. Maybe if you are in one of those jurisdictions that really enforce noise ordinances (most of Europe & California) but for many/most of us we just want performance and "the right sound". All it requires is for the manufacturing company to put a waiver/label on it saying for off the road use only that all will discard anyways just as my "race only" ECM is for my M2. I believe only companies producing full vehicles need to meet EPA regs. I believe EPA certified is just a selling point to those few it matters to. Is this a great country or what? In 50 some years of riding I have never had an "excessive noise" ticket anywhere I have lived or ridden and always had performance exhaust systems. And I still like the stock system so far. I also hope we will see some more variations in the near future.
(Message edited by bob_thompson on June 18, 2008) |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 07:32 pm: |
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America is not the entire world, especially when it comes to sport bikes. |
Oddball
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 08:10 pm: |
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Not horrible looking, gives a small increase without tuning changes and 93db is 3 under EPA (96) isn't it? Would allow a change from stock without the noise police bitching. Hopefully someone will put up a youtube of it to get an idea of it's sound with and without the baffles. I understand inside/ouside differences walls or objects bounce more sound around adding volume. Any thinking person pays attention to the locations of the bikes in vids as well as the camera's location relative to the exhaust outlet. I suppose ideally a slow walk around of an idling bike and blipping the throttle at say 12,3,6 and 9 o'clock would give a bit of the feel but of course nothing is going to replicate actually hearing it with your own two ears in person.
Do wish they'd black out everything to the header. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 08:15 pm: |
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that power curve is very nice, although I take it with a grain of salt. The main thing I see a large increase in midrange power and a smoother overall power curve. The peak power might only be a couple ponys, but the real benefit is in the midrange where most of us ride. Can it really increase 10hp like the graph indicates? |
Trojan
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 05:48 am: |
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I understand the concept of you get what you pay for, but I got a VERY nice Akrapovic (which is a damn good pipe) for my Ninja for 600 bucks....Carbon Fiber, very well made and a very good power add-on....im just wondering what these companies are doing so much different than a very reputable company like Akrapovic to justify doubling the price of their stuff...
We also sell Akrapovic, QD, Micron and HP exhausts for Jap bikes, so are very well aware of the price differences.
The Akrapovic muffler for the ZX6-R is the same as their muffler for most other Jap sports bikes. The only thing that changes is the fitting kit. This means that they can develop one pipe to fit a huge range of 4 cylinder bikes with similar power characteristics, which in turn means they can mass produce them and save money on development.
If you look at current Akrapovic pricing you will also see that they have jumped sharply twice in the last couple of months. I just sold a full race system for a Z750 and the price had gone up by GBP120 (US$240 approx) since May.
If you want to make a better comparison, take a look at prices of other top quality aftermarket exhausts to fit low volume producers such as Ducati or KTM. A full Akrapovic system for a Ducati 1098 will cost GBP2116 (US$4120 approx) and a slip on muffler for the same bike is GBP745 (US$1450 approx).
Micron are cheaper, but the quality is nowhere near that of Remus, Akrapovic and other 'top flight' manufacturers.
Remus (and the other decent aftermarket 1125R exhausts) have had to develop this pipe from scratch, and unlike the Jap IL4 exhausts this one is unique to the 1125 so can't be used on other bikes.
Other pipes, such as Jardine, use a 'generic' muffler that will fit a range of bikes, with just a fitting kit to make it fit the 1125R. I will bet that their power figures and build quality are nowhere near the Remus or the Saron pipe.
Lastly, the US price is inflated by the relatively low state of the Dollar at the moment against other world currencies, particularly the Euro and UK Pound Sterling that we work in, and that is unfortunately something we cannot do anything about  |
Mainstreamer
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 07:32 am: |
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+ 1 .... What Matt said.
Full Arrow Ti system for my Daytona675 was $2200.00 and full Termi SS system for my Ducati was $1700.00.
Limited production + value of the Euro and PS = BIG $$$$. That's just they way it is.
The good news is this option is available for 1125r owners. |
Rfischer
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 08:18 am: |
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For what it's worth...almost 10 years ago I had Bob Johnson @ J.E.T. [Badweb sponsor], who is a first class race engineer, make a complete exhaust system for my S1 racebike. $1000+ and didn't work as well as the Buell race item.
Moral: expensive and difficult to improve on a factory set up. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 03:07 pm: |
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The GBP is only up about 14% versus the USD over the past five years. The Euro though is another matter, closer to double that. |
Bearly
| | Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 08:53 pm: |
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Come on U.S. Manufacturers!
I bought the Micron Serpent system for the Uly last year, (from the UK) for $899. The Serpent is not just a slip on for those who have not seen it. It's all hydro formed header pipes and a nice can and tips that are under the bike.
I would like to spend less to make my 1125R look like a KawaYamaSuzuHon.
(Message edited by bearly on June 19, 2008) |
Arillius13
| | Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2008 - 08:31 pm: |
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Heres my stock dyno run. Ambient was rather hot and bike was running a little warm from it. Id except better numbers with cooler temps.
Also they said numbers on their dyno are usually come out lower than what the bikes are putting out. Ill post a comparison with the Remus as soon as I get it and get it put on.
(Message edited by arillius13 on June 26, 2008) |
Palerider
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2008 - 03:22 am: |
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Why can't someone design a can similar to the one on the RC8? I wold have thought Buell, after the xb design muffler, would have designed something cleaner than he did with the 1125. The RC8's seems to tuck up well and is not as obtrusive as the stock 1125 muffler and doesn't look like it exhausts back at the rear brake, swingarm, or wheel.I also like the D&D but would not use it unless the sound was more reasonable. |
Bigeasy
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2008 - 11:38 am: |
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I'm thinking with all the pipes I have seen so far the sauron is the way to go. All the others stick out the side and the sauron is tucked away underneath. One lowside and bye bye expensive pipe for these other ones. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2008 - 01:52 pm: |
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Has anyone come up with a workable belly pan?
All of the new exhaust set-ups look funny with nothing to balance out the space below the engine.
Aftermarket exhaust would look better with some sort of belly pan to add some "bulk" to the bottom of the motorcycle.
I agree that something more like the RC8 exhaust would be better. It wouldn't need to change the function of the exhaust, but it would allow a box enclosure to provide some balance.
Kill the dog bone, but give us a little balance! |
Husky
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2008 - 05:23 pm: |
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The EPA regulation for Street motorcycles is 83db, established in 1979.
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/tra/rpt/2003-R- 0676.htm
Husky |
Madav8tr
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2008 - 05:39 pm: |
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I am not sure an RC8 style exhaust would good on the Buell. It looks decent enough on the full faired bike but without the full lower fairing I don't think it would look any better than what we already have.
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Bob_thompson
| | Posted on Friday, July 04, 2008 - 09:57 pm: |
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Small flat turbo type muffler, two into one head pipes and duel outlets, directly under the engine, lowers and a belly pan to hide the muffler. If you build it they will come............in droves. Bob |
Jotrevza
| | Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2008 - 09:29 pm: |
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Hey Trojan, (Matt)
I'm a relatively new guy to Badweather Bikers. My name is Tracy. I recently bought the 1125R. It's a unique bike and a "blast" to ride! (no pun intended - get it? "Blast"?) O.K, enough "horsing around" with the "Trojan"....... 
Seriously though Matt, I've been checking out your website and was commenting to another guy at work again last night how much I like your stuff! Yeah, it's expensive, but, ain't it all these days??? I guess the way I look at it, you gotta pay to play. That Ilmberger carbon fiber kit is just this side of awesome! O.K., maybe just the other side. They sure got that one right! I'll just have to keep washing dishes to help pay for that kit when it's ready.
I did want to ask you about the Remus exhaust. Do you think it builds enough extra power and sounds good enough to warrant the expense vs. the stock "noiser"?
Nice products and keep up the good work.
Tracy |
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