| Author | Message | ||
     Rick914 |
Ya I put an 2cap fulls in with the stock fluid and saw about 5-6deg on the same day...I wanted to drain to just water(texas summer) and try waterwetter. then the Engine ice. Thanks again guys | ||
| Jpfive |
What's the difference between Water Wetter and Engine Ice? Does either one offer anti-freeze protection? Jack | ||
| Spectrum |
Water Wetter is a race coolant additive that mostly improves cooling. Doesn't provide any anti-freeze protection but does have good corrosive protection. Water Wetter or even pure water does a better job of cooling than anti-freeze (poly or ethyl glycol.) Engine Ice is a Poly vs Ethyl based Glycol anti-freeze. It does a better job of cooling than standard anti-freeze (ethyl glycol). Poly glycol is non-toxic and environmental friendly. Poly glycol doesn't have the anti-corrosive protection offered by ethyl glycol so most poly glycol products include other additives for the anti-corrosive proprieties. Bottom line is, a name brand high quality Poly glycol anti-freeze, is a direct replacement for standard anti-freeze and does a better job of cooling, has similar life span. It is higher cost and due to the less corrosive resistance should be changed at more frequent intervals. Water Wetter and Engine Ice can be used on track, but ethyl glycol based anti-freeze is usually not allowed for racing or advanced or intermediate groups at track days. | ||
| Jpfive |
Thanks for the rundown, spectrum - quality post! | ||
| Cataract2 |
So, Spec, for the street just stick with the normal antifreeze? | ||
| Slaughter |
You can get improvements in cooling with Water-Wetter added to your normal coolant. It's not just for racing - though is slightly raises boiling point and increases cooling capacity of distilled water.
http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp There's more info on the link above. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I run Engine Ice and I've had good luck with it. I used to run Water Wetter, but I got concerned about the lack of corrosion protection. I know NESBA and STT both allow Engine Ice. Ed Bargy, however, doesn't allow Engine Ice, so I'll have to dump it when I take his racing school in September. (Message edited by chadhargis on June 17, 2008) | ||
| Spectrum |
For street use Buell recommends ethyl glycol. My personal preference is to run a Poly Glycol. Just keep in mind if your going to run a poly glycol for everyday use, do some research into the corrosive protection of the product you use. As slaughter mentioned you can combine water Wetter with glycol anti-freeze. Although Redlines technical information is vague on ethyl vs poly glycol. Until someone from Redline says other wise I assume when they say glycol the mean ethyl glycol. Chad - Water Watter and Engine Ice both meet the same anti-corrosive specification as commercial anti-freeze. In other words other words they both have excellent anti-corrosive properties. | ||
| Blazin_buell |
I was attending the ROT Rally this weekend in temps above 100 degrees and for the first time was a little annoyed by the temp of the frame. The coolant temp got up to 212 and told a buddy to feel my right side frame and he said his was just as hot ,and it was, on his XB9. So I won't bitch anymore since my 25r isn't getting any hotter than a couple of other XB's I've felt. I've yet to try any coolant additives but you guys have talked me into it. And since the reflash hasn't affected the coolant heat factor I'll try the insulation in the frame trick too. The first thing I did to the bike was paint and wrap the headers and that was a big improvement in the Springtime.   | ||
| Fresnobuell |
So bottom line, which is the best at cooling the bike--Water Wetter or Engine Ice? | ||
| Misterrich |
The engine ice is working great on my bike but never used the water wetter. If you buy engine ice only buy one bottle. I bought 2 thinking i would need it. | ||
| Spectrum |
Theoretically Water Wetter would do a better job of cooling, but provide no freeze protection. I have no data to back that up. Maybe Slaughter or one of the race guys might have experience with both. By the way, Engine Ice comes in 1/2 gallon bottles and is premixed so don't add any water. The coolant capacity on the 1125R is slight less than 1 gallon so you do need 2 bottles. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Theoretically Water Wetter would do a better job of cooling, but provide no freeze protection. Why is that? | ||
| Kttemplar |
Has anyone heard of Evans NPG coolant? What have you heard and do you think it is a good alternative to the stock coolant? http://www.evanscooling.com/catalog/C_npg1.htm#npg r Mike | ||
| Spectrum |
Harlan - Water wetter is not an anti-freeze. It's freeze point is only slightly better than water (31 degrees if i remember correctly). It's primarily designed as an additive to water to improve it's heat transfer proprieties. | ||
| Slaughter |
I used Water Wetter in the Suzuki and Honda on the racetrack in distilled water. I don't unfortunately have experience with Water Wetter mixed with coolant compared to coolant without Water Wetter because I mixed it in for Sunny's Honda streetbike when I first setup the Suzuki for the track. We didn't have a chance to do something like run it one afternoon without - and then mix in the Water Wetter and take it out that same afternoon... so my opinion is that it's like chicken soup taken for the flu: "It couldn't hurt" For racing, you're only allowed specific, named, non-lubricating mixes of water and stuff like Water Wetter or Engine Ice. You wouldn't want to use distilled water/Water Wetter on a streetbike. No lubrication, little-to-no corrosion protection. (just a note) - Rick 914's experience above is more what would be needed to get a good comparison BUT everything I've read is that Water Wetter (and I assume Engine Ice) act to improve heat transfer from the metal radiator into the liquid - water or coolant. Almost every speed shop I've ever been into has one or the other. You can probably find it in stock within a couple miles of where you live. (Message edited by slaughter on June 19, 2008) | ||
| Kttemplar |
You can get approximately an 8 degree decrease in engine coolant temperature by replacing 3 ounces of your 50/50 coolant with Water Wetter. Just in case anyone is interested, I was. Water Wetter bonds with the water to create smaller bubbles of vapor. This gives more surface area (engine surfaces to coolant) and therefore better heat transfer. Using water wetter with water is the best heat transfer because water is the best heat transfer agent. Here is a comparison of the different configurations. The below information was taken from the redline website Water Wetter demo. They used a small block Chevy engine with cast iron block and aluminum heads. The engine was run @ 7200 rpm for three hours. http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp?sub CategoryID=4&coolantFlash=1 50/50 (EG/Water) = 228 Degrees F 50/50 + Water Wetter = 220 Degrees F Water = 220 Degrees F Water + Water Wetter = 202 Degrees F Therefore, adding water wetter to the regular 50/50 mixture already in the bike will reduce the engine coolant temperature approximately 8 degrees. Using a mixture of water and Water Wetter will reduce the engine coolant temperature by approximately 26 degrees. Using the 50/50 + Water Wetter is approximately the same heat transfer capability as using water alone. BTW, the instructions say that a 12oz bottle will treat 12-16 quarts of water/50-50 or 4-5 caps-full per quart of water/50-50. So, it looks like about 1oz per quart. If you just wanted to mix the Water Wetter in with the current coolant (0.8 gallons/3.2 Quart coolant capacity in the 1125R), all you have to do is get rid of about 3 ounces of coolant (12.8-16 caps full of Water Wetter) and replace it with Water Wetter in order to get about an 8-degree improvement in engine cooling while retaining the anti-freeze properties of the EG. I was just wondering what type of differences to expect by just adding Water Wetter to the 50/50 as opposed to changing it out all together. I hope that others find this info interesting and informative. If not, sorry. Mike (Message edited by kttemplar on June 19, 2008) (Message edited by kttemplar on June 19, 2008) (Message edited by kttemplar on June 19, 2008) (Message edited by kttemplar on June 19, 2008) | ||
| Jaimec |
In the 80's when BMW "K" bike owners complained of excessive heat from the gas tank, the response from BMW was to mount a pair of insulating rubber pads on the side of the tank where your legs were. I actually had a tank cover made by Mustang (the saddle people) that had an insulated, quilted section by my legs that worked even better. Maybe something like that along the sides of the "Frank?" The pads, that is... not the cover... | ||
| Spectrum |
I think the thigh heat is coming from the hole in the body work where you see the rear shock. You guys having a problem might experiment with blocking that off somehow. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Water wetter is not an anti-freeze. It's freeze point is only slightly better than water (31 degrees if i remember correctly). It's primarily designed as an additive to water to improve it's heat transfer proprieties. I am sold. That's is pretty much perfect for Central California with very warm summer temps. If it takes the temperature down a handful of degrees, it will be very nice. I'll worry about the winter later...i really don't think there is a threat of freezing in my garage, even when the outside temps dip into the high 20's occasionally. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
In the 80's when BMW "K" bike owners complained of excessive heat from the gas tank, the response from BMW was to mount a pair of insulating rubber pads on the side of the tank where your legs were. get the tec-spec gripskins. They do a great job of keeping the heat reasonable (or at least not blistering hot.)} I can tell a huge difference between the covered part of frame and the 3-4 inch bare spot near the rear of the frame. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
You wouldn't want to use distilled water/Water Wetter on a streetbike. No lubrication, little-to-no corrosion protection. So plain h20 + water wetter is a no-no for streetbikes? A 26 degree drop in coolant temp would be SWEET!!! | ||
| Bearly |
Interesting thread. I too experienced first degree burns when in my bike. The high for the day was 98°. The air temp gage on the bike which usually reads a little high was up to 121°. My burns were above the knee on both legs indicating that the excessive hot air was coming from between the seat and the frame. I had on those Kevlar lined jeans and that double layer might have been responsible for the burns not being closer to the knee. I went up to see RatBuell the next day at work when it was 99° and it made the burns worst. I wasn't in stop and go traffic for any length of time, but I was in a long slow 35 mile an hour congo line for about 10 miles at one point. As seemingly new bikes give off more heat that older ones, I'll mention that mine has 4000 miles on it. I've only experienced this those two days. It's cooled off here in N. Va now which is good because I can't stay off that 1125R. | ||
| Helicon |
I checked and Tec-spec still doesn't have the 1125R pads on their website. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
916-941-6606...call Dean at Tec-Spec. He is waiting for pics from me. That is the reason it isn't on the website (I believe.) I am lagging on it and feel like an a$$. | ||
| Helicon |
Thanks Fresno. I realize we are getting a little off topic but, did you go with snakeskin, ice, or fusion. Do you think one will block the heat better than the other? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Snakeskin is the thickest, hence the best barrier to heat. I believe it is 1/8 thick. | ||
| Kttemplar |
You wouldn't want to use distilled water/Water Wetter on a streetbike. No lubrication, little-to-no corrosion protection. The info from the Redline (water wetter) website states that there is corrosion protection and lubrication for seals in water wetter. http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp Water Wetter Super Coolant WaterWetter is a unique wetting agent for cooling systems which reduces coolant temperatures by as much as 30ºF. This liquid product can be used to provide rust and corrosion protection in plain water for racing engines, which provides much better heat transfer properties than glycol-based antifreeze. Or it can be added to new or used antifreeze to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems. Designed for modern aluminum, cast iron, copper, brass and bronze systems. · Doubles the wetting ability of water · Improves heat transfer · Reduces cylinder head temperatures · May allow more spark advance for increased torque · Reduces rust, corrosion and electrolysis of all metals · Provides long term corrosion protection · Cleans and lubricates water pump seals · Prevents foaming · Reduces cavitation corrosion · Complexes with hard water to reduce scale Mike | ||
| Kttemplar |
It seems that the only significant drawback with using water and water wetter is that you lose the anti-freeze properties of other types of coolants. If i lived in a place that never froze, I would go with the water - water wetter mixture. Since I live in NY I am leary of switching over because I will probably forget to change it out before it starts getting cold. Besides, I want to do the least amount of work. I just added 3.5 oz of water wetter to the HD long life anti-freeze already in the bike. I got a 12oz bottle for $8.99 at the local Pep Boys. I noticed a 6-10 degree drop in coolant temps immediately. I am happy with that right now. I think that if I change out the coolant all together, I will go with engine ice mixed with Water Wetter. Mike | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Sweet, I think distilled water + water wetter is on the schedule for this weekend...plus I'll throw on those new cut gripskins too. |
