| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Okay then. You are getting fuel, but no spark. Could it be a faulty over-temp circuit/sensor (on rear cylinder head)? | ||
| Fogcity |
I don't know. Would a faulty sensor be faulty independently of the ICM (since I did switch that?). How do I access/inspect/test the sensor? Blake, I really appreciate your help in this matter 'cause the help you've given me in the past has always been right on. | ||
| Xgecko |
Fog...I ride a Blast. You would think with all the Blasts that they (Buell) have sold that they could keep what little aftermarket goodies they make for them in stock. I never really though I would want a mask before but it does look nice (not just because it covers my boo-boos. Fog, It has to be electrical then...I'd break out the wiring diagrams on your M2...What Blake said makes sense. Bad sensors/switches are the cause of most of the electrical problems that I spend my days at work fixing. | ||
| Fogcity |
Xgecko - Hey, at least you're able to fix 'em. | ||
| Xgecko |
My last trip to japan a sub 8 days from homeport (the end of a 6 month deployment) had it's main periscope fail bad. This was an underway limiting problem. There was a quick easy fix that involved a bit of "Mechanical Agitation" (breating the top of the periscope with a rubber mallet). The other choice was delaying the sub inport for another week (remember they were to be arriving home in Pearl soon) while the barrel was changed. No one would take responsiblity and let us Agitate it. They were all convinced that we were on drugs for even suggesting it. Finally the captain comes aboard after a meeting and finds out about this "problem" and his first words are I'm leaving tommorrow get up there and fix it. Up we go with a hammer and in 4-5 whacks it's good enough to go home. I think word got out because we couldn't buy a drink that night anywhere in town...my head hurt for two days. Sometimes a hammer is the right tool. BTW the original problem was a fried/shorted switch that took two electric motors (in the periscope) with it. | ||
| Fogcity |
Let me ask a real stupid question (to be filed away with my others): If you were in the middle of nowhere, out of cell phone range, and your carbed bike lost its spark, what would be your outline for diagnosing the problem? (Mine would be to raise my arms to the Heavens, sob like a baby and ask God for a little divine intervention - it hasn't worked yet.) I'm wondering if I'm overlooking something real simple (entirely possible.) | ||
| Fogcity |
Are you saying to use the hammer on myself or the Buell? (thanks for the help, signing off, will read posts tomorrow with much anticipation) | ||
| Xgecko |
I always follow the juice...find out where it stops...electricty is like plumbing. Out in the middle of nowhere I would (and have) followed your example | ||
| Roc |
Snail - a friend of mine is heading a fire crew in Washington. He sent me some pictures and let me know that the "red stuff the planes are dropping is about $10 a gallon, and they drop 5-6,000 gallons run." - Yikes | ||
| Pammy |
Fog, sounds like maybe a sidestand switch to me. | ||
| Chainsaw |
Fogcity: Sounds like a COIL man! Can't tell if it's bad by just looking at it, need to have the resistance checked on a meter (I do not know the specs). Must be frustrating...good luck! | ||
| Dynarider |
I agree with Pammy. Just had the side stand switch go out on my X1 last night. Got home from work fired it up & rode maybe a mile & it quit. Started right up & seemed ok, then it started bucking & surging, engine light coming on because it was actually killing all spark. It wouldnt do it constantly, just every once in awhile. Got home, pulled the switch plug out, cut the wires & spliced em together. Dont need that damn switch anyways. Now its once less thing I have to worry about out on the road. | ||
| Jeffh |
I'm with Pammy - if it's an intermittent no-start, bypass the kickstand switch. Mine used to do the same thing, waaay back when it still had the switch.. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Fogcity You mentioned the carb, make sure the rubbber boot between the carb and the manifold is sealing correctly. if it's leaking it's letting in too much air and it won't start. Double check the whole installation. Try to crack the throttle open slightly as you hit the starter. Other things: Check the tank vent line to make sure it's not pinched. If it's pinched you could be vapor locking it and it will shut down. Check the sidestand switch. You can by pass it by splicing the wires together. The bike will not start if it thinks the sidestand is down. I get the sneaky feeling this might have been my problem all along last weekend. I'll find out soon, hopefully. Hope this helps | ||
| Libnosis |
Problem- My 98S1W coughs, sputters, back fires etc. when I crank it up. Here's what I've done so far- Battery was dead when I bought the bike. New battery. Installed New plugs because it was the easiest thing to do. I thought the intake seals were the cause. New intake seals. I still have the same problem. Any ideas. I've got to get it ready for DG. lib | ||
| Bull |
On Fog's problem: I'm not bying in to the idea with the sidestand switch! Since fog's bike wont even start.. I mean, with the sidestand switch you're ok until you let the clutch go, right! As I understood it the bike refused to start completely, no spark at all! I'm with Blake on this matter, overtemp sensor or perhaps coil (tiny cracks could affect performance due to thermal expansion), ignition box, ignition pick-up or harnesses in between the mentioned... Try the plumming technique... and tell us about the result;-) Good luck/ Jonas | ||
| Mikej |
The sidestand issue is a coupled affair between the sidestand switch, the clutch handle switch, and the transmission neutral indicator, at least on my M2. It may be possible that a combination of all three are acting up making the bike think it's in gear with the sidestand down and the clutch handle out, thereby making it sparkless. Far fetched, but remotely possible. I think I'm in agreement with others though. Check fuses, relays, and those nasty spade-lug connectors on or near the coil. One occaisional near-short/break and you'll get an intermittant problem. Turn on the key, get one of those needle-point circuit testors, and start poking at the wires that should be hot until you find one that isn't. Then maybe get one with batteries, or a digital circuit tester, and start checking the ground paths until you find the open circuit. And wiggle the wires when you test them to verify if you have a close break in the wires where they can touch inside the insulation to fool you until you hit the gas on an onramp .... Good hunting. Intermittant random problems are the worst to track down. Now you see it, now you don't. | ||
| Josh |
If it is the sidestand switch, you should be able to start/run the bike with the clutch in or the bike in neutral. If it dies while riding it and you can't restart (and thus have the clutch in/bike in neutral) it's not the sidestand switch. Now, side stand switch *and* clutch or neutral switch could do that, but I'd start (if you know there's no spark) by checking the "tip over" switch, then find someone with a similar bike and start swapping ignition parts till neither works  Josh | ||
| Mikej |
Okay, where's the "tip over" switch located? I don't want to move something accidently and relocate/remount it in "tipped over" position.  (heh heh, haven't used that emoticon before.) | ||
| Josh |
Mikej, Moves around from bike-to-bike but I think it's in the tail. Oh, and for the record it's a "Bank Angle Sensor." Josh | ||
| Freewaystreak |
Looking for M-2 riders who have either a xb9 as a second bike or who have sold their M-2 to acquire one. I am seriously considering getting rid of my M-2 for the 9, but I worry about all-day comfort. I don't want to return to the old days of touring on my FZR 600. Rode that bad boy from El Paso to San Antonio and had to consider living in San Antonio rather than ride back. I finally found the comfort zone on the FZR 100 mph. It did make for a quick trip back I was just lucky their were no cops. Anyhow, any of you done any extended riding on the Xb? What is a 500-800 mile day like compared to the M-2? Thanks, Dean | ||
| Mikej |
Dean, My honest speculative opinion is to wait a year or less for what you seek. Too much in the rumor zone to not think this way for someone looking for what you're looking for. Or try to convince your friendliest local dealer to loan you an XB for a full day and find out first hand. Ain't nothing wrong with your M2, is there? If it fills your current needs then why change? | ||
| Djkaplan |
Ah yes, the clutch switch. I had the dealer I bought the bike from do a service (they would not address any warranty issues unless I bent over for a service) and they broke the clutch switch somehow. They, of course, did have this item in stock and told me to come back in 2 weeks for a new one. I had already spliced the kickstand switch weeks earlier. I figured I'd just rather live without it than go back to this horrible dealer. That was until I started it in gear while standing next to the bike. Thank goodness it didn't fire up. With the choke on, it might have idled faster than I could run. I would have had to chase that sucker across the parking lot in full view of my coworkers. I went back to the dealer and, of course, they had no record of the freebie switch they were suppose to give me. So I had to pay for the one that they mysteriously had in stock now. Never went back to that place again.... | ||
| Josh |
BattleTrax pre flight: Other than tire pressure and oil, what should I go over on my S3 before attacking a BattleTrax course? Any one got a good pre-flight they go through? Thanks, Josh | ||
| Blake |
Fog, A summary of your situation as I understand it... 1. Your '01 M2 will fail to start and/or die for no apparent reason. 2. It will then turn over vigorously, but no spark reaches the spark plugs. This is the case even with the bike in neutral, the kickstand up, and the clutch pulled in. 3. After some period of time, the engine will fire and run again. As I understand it, the over-temp circuit is only included in the stock ignition module. I believe that it kicks in causing a miss every other power stroke whenever the voltage from the sensor reaches a set level. Since your problem manifested for both the race and stock modules, and you get absolutely zero spark, that is not likely your problem. You are definitely grounding the plugs when checking for spark, right?  I think you properly ruled out any of the safety cutout switches as you verified that even in neutral and with the clutch in you got no spark, right? Still, shorting out all safety switches to 100% eliminate that failure path might be a good idea. Remove and inspect the ignition fuse. Ensure that it is clean and dry. If you have a spare, swap it for the one currently installed. I think you've already checked the following... Next, I would remove and inspect the plug wires. Look for any signs of arcing (burnt spots). I would think that a plug wire related failure would usually manifest in just one cylinder, so I suspect that is not the cause of your trouble, but in keeping with eliminating each failure mode it is worth investigating. Clean and inspect the connectors at each end. Adjust if necessary to ensure that each connector makes good positive contact with it's mating connection. I know you've already done this... Replace each spark plug with a new one, properly gapped. What do the old plugs' appearance indicate? What are the gaps? Next, check the connections of your low voltage feeds to the coil. At only 10-12 volts a loose or dirty connection there can cause real problems. Next comes the coil. See if you can borrow one from another Buell or Sporty. Swap it. If the problem disappears, you may have found the culprit. From there it gets into wiring harness diagnosis and checking/cleaning of all associated connectors. A small digital multimeter is a very handy tool for ferreting out these kinds of gremlins. Check the simple stuff first. The symptoms suggest an intermittent short or disconnect somewhere in the ignition circuit. Oh, here's one more thing to check. The ignition module should have a tip sensor reset button on it. You might try cycling that to ensure it is properly engaged. Good luck, I feel for your predicament. Electrical gremlins are the worst to diagnose. Luckily they are usually the easist/cheapest to repair once diagnosed. Let us know what you find. I'll move this thread to the KV under "Engine - Electrical" so that when you do solve the mystery, it might help others with similar woes. Thanks, Blake | ||
| Blake |
Guys, Please don't give up on the Knowledge Vault topics. | ||
| Blake |
Josh, I've yet to run a BTrax, but prior to a track day I'd duggest attending to the following... 1. Put a wrench to all exposed fasteners to ensure their proper tightness/torquing. 2. Adjust suspension for track type setup... possibly dial in stiffer compression damping, definitely go for minimum sag. 3. Ensure you have adequate but not a full fuel tank. The less fuel the better. This makes a significant difference in handling. An extra two gallons in the tank is very noticeable on a tight twisty course. Octane booster anyone? 4. Ensure front brake is operating at optimum level. A quick cleaning to remove residual dirt/dust doesn't hurt. 5. Ensure your foldable pegs are actually able to fold, just in case.  And... Got bar ends? 6. Tape over breakable lenses. Remove mirrors. Possibly not required for Trax? 7. Rotate shifter lever up a notch or two or better yet simplyswitch to GP shifting to prevent the tarmac from accidentally initiating a shift into neutral (ask FB about this one. ![:]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) 8. Practice dragging pegs and keeping your boots tucked in as far inboard as possible to avoid ruining them and freaking yourself out upon their initial contact with the asphalt. 9. Practice hard braking (front brake only). 10. HAVE FUN!  Blake PS: The factory may call it a "bank angle sensor", but that is highly inaccurate. It is in reality a tip sensor. It activates when the bike tips over. "Bank angle sensor" implies that if you put one on a race bike, it might activate at extreme lean angles while cornering; it won't. Isn't the sensor actually housed adjacent to the ignition module or ECM as appropriate? | ||
| Josh |
>10. HAVE FUN! I plan on it! My last 'Trax was on my wife's Blast which was cool but I think the S3 will be better practice for me. >PS: The factory may call it a "bank angle sensor", but that is highly inaccurate. If it is a BankAngleSensor, I want a "horizon" gauge preferably with memory so I can replay the ride >Isn't the sensor actually housed adjacent to the ignition module or ECM as appropriate? I though on some bikes (m2/S3) it was in the tail and on others (X1) it was with the ECM. I once had a manual detailing all the changes for 99 but I gave it to a local shop that needed it. Josh | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Lib, Check to see that the bike is charging the battery when you run and rev it. Check the stator, if it's going to ground it needs to be replaced. I mention this becase I just heard from my Mechanic that my bike's stator is doing the exact same thing. Hopefully it was the stator all along and it didn't mess up anything else. The DDFI computer also had four trouble codes stored (front and rear injectors, front coil and fuel pump) apparently they all get their power from the same wire. At this point it's not clear if the stator failure is the cause of this or a result of this. _________________________________________________________ Battletrax preparation. Josh, Yes, make sure that your tires and your brake pads/lines are in good shape, but I wouldn't worry about suspension settings or fuel loads or anything like that just yet. Do make sure that your battery is fully charged. You'll be turning it on and off a lot, unless you want to overheat it waiting in line for your next turn. If you want, leave the bike in first gear then remove the shifter so nothing will snap off during sharp right turns, and maybe raise your rear brake lever a little for the left side. I learned this one the hard way. The rider, more than the bike, shines through in Battletrax, so work on yourself. Battletrax will improve your tolerance for high lean angles at low speeds. If this does not bother you you should do ok. Other things I suggest to people are as follows: Look as far ahead through the turns as you can Be as smooth as you can, use the clutch instead of the throttle to adjust your speed if you prefer. Brake before you start the turns. Trail braking if done correctly is an advantage, but if this is your first battletrax I would advise against doing it right away. Ride slowly during practice, don't try to go fast every time you go out, build the speed up slowly. Work on putting the turns together smoothly and consistently. Having said all that, once you go on your first practice lap, adrenaline takes over and all this techniques go out the window..... Most importantly, have fun, take pictures and post them here!  | ||
| Libnosis |
Thanks JQ. A friend of mine told me to do that also. lib |
