| Author | Message | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
     Portero72 |
Does anyone know exactly how many watts the stator puts out and how many the bike consumes during normal use? More importantly, are there any resources available to prove this? And.... Yes, I have recently experienced a VR/stator failure, and.... Yes, even though my bike was bought new 10 months ago, I am fighting to have this covered under warranty. Thx fellas | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hughlysses |
2006 & 2007 were the same; 2007 specs from Buell's website: 494W peak, 38-amp, permanent magnet, 3-phase alternator with solid-state regulator No idea what the bike consumes; you've got a headlight, LED taillight, engine electronics, fuel pump, and the engine cooling fan to consider. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Gamdh |
This is what I used to estimate. Some of the number came from the manual and some came from estimates from the powerlet web site http://www.powerletproducts.com/
| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Portero72 |
Thx guys, that's a goldmine. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ft_bstrd |
Problem with the 06/07 stator is that if ridden aggressively without all the accessories it generates max power without anywhere to put it. It's part of the reason the 08 stator had it's peak output reduced. I'm thinking of adding a Jacob's Ladder to the back of my bike. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Dr_greg |
I'm thinking of adding a Jacob's Ladder to the back of my bike. Nah, do it up right; install a Tesla coil... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| New12r |
I just leave the high beams on all the time. 24k and only the connector for the VR/Stator was an issue. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Old_mil |
Why are you fighting to have this covered under warranty? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Portero72 |
Old_mil The dealership servicing my bike is under the impression that my driving lights(2 55w bulbs) are too much of a load on the charging system, and burned out the VR/stator. BCS is involved, but not entirely in my corner. Decision pending... Fatty- I used to think that there was too much output from the stator, as well. Now I'm not so sure... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Froggy |
The 2 stock headlight bulbs are 55w each, so do you have 2 additional driving lights on with it? Even with them on, your total for the 2 extra lights is 110w, about half of the bikes extra shunted power. If anything, they were helping to extend the life of your VR. If you have a volt meter mod on your bike, you will see the voltage will remain constant even when you switch on the lights. If anything, you would get a momentary drop in voltage, but it should pick right back up. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Gamdh |
Should not be a problem. For a while I had 2 55w driving lights. Changed them to 2 HID's. I've had not issues with 2-55w lights + Gerbings Heated liner (77watts) + Heated gloves ( 27watts). Now I'm running 2 Hids @13watts each and was able to run them with both headlights on and the Heated Jacked and Gloves.. never had any issues. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hughlysses |
Portero- IIRC from what's been posted here, the alternator basically generates maximum output at all times. The excess is shunted to ground via the voltage regulator. As FB said, you're more likely to burn up the stator from having too little load than too much load. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ft_bstrd |
The stator isn't constant power. It's at it's lowest power at idle and at it's highest power at redline. The voltage regulator's only job is to prevent the battery and the rest of the system from receiving power in excess of its capacity. The lower the power draw on the system, the less power from the stator is being used and the more work the voltage regulator must do to prevent overcharge. 110W of power draw for your driving lights is less than 25% of the overall output. I'd bet that if you were only running heated gear plugged into the power outlets, you wouldn't be having any discussion as to whether your stator and vr were faulty and they draw far more current than your lights do: Gerbing Jacket 77 Watts Gerbing Pants 44 Watts Gerbing Gloves 27 Watts 148 Watts Again, why do you think that they would have put a WEAKER stator on the 08s vs. a more robust stator is the failures are the result of drawing too much power. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Etennuly |
On a cold day you can really feel the difference in voltage output per rpm with a heated jacket. I can control how much heat it puts out by what gear I am running in. Who needs that $100 thermo switch that HD sells?  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Portero72 |
I agree with everyone here who has said that 2 extra 55w lights should be no problem for the system. I even added up the numbers of watts used vs. watts put out to make my case. The BCS people (to say nothing of the dealer staff) seem less likely to agree, though, especially since the lights are 'not factory items'. At this point, the BCS tech people are in contact with the service techs at the shop to see what kind of load the lights were putting on the charging system, and whether the bike could handle it. This is what I've been told. I should know something on Friday. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ft_bstrd |
By that reasoning, Buell would only warranty claims for accessories specifically provided by Buell. Where is the heated clothing from Buell? They provide power accessory outlets for both rider and passenger. What would happen if both actually wanted to use those provided outlets? Would that mean that they were running 298 Watts of power? Where is the gear? do they expect that you would have the ability to use that gear but would wait until Buell provides the gear? I guess I would ask them if the lights draw more or less power than the heated pants and jacket they provide the power outlet for. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Portero72 |
Fatty- You're preaching to the choir, my friend. The first CS person I spoke to was only willing to have Buell pay for the parts, not labor. I then 'escalated' the issue, and the next rep got the tech people involved, at my request. My big question was, "why would the bike be equipped with 2 power outlets if 110w overloads the system?" | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ft_bstrd |
My big question was, "why would the bike be equipped with 2 power outlets if 110w overloads the system?" Zactly! And why would the 08 come with an even smaller Stator? I am concerned about future failures. I now have the "Fatty's Charging System Indicator" modification. I'd rather keep my system at just barely charged than over charged. My system is designed to indicate when the system is being overcharged indicating a VR failure. The charging system, to me, is the weak link on our bikes. It's simple but fragile. I believe a better voltage regulator that is able to handle more heat would be better. I do find it odd that they went from a three phase to a single phase arrangement. At least with the three phase stator, you can lose one and still limp back. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xbimmer |
I do find it odd that they went from a three phase to a single phase arrangement. At least with the three phase stator, you can lose one and still limp back. Maybe because they eliminated the good ol' 77-connector on the '08s they're not so worried about stator failures.  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ft_bstrd |
You'd think that if the connector were the problem that they would replace the VR and stator with a different connection point. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Old_mil |
Unfortunate to hear that Buell CS is engaging in these BMW-like tactics when it comes to warranty work.} | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Treadmarks |
260 watts of desert race lights. yessiree. That will use up all that xtra lectricity that seems to be causin all these problems. Fatty's CSI mod will let ya know when to back off just a little bit. Jes keep turnin sheit on till the lite turns yeller, then turn that last thang off. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ft_bstrd |
Jes keep turnin sheit on till the lite turns yeller, then turn that last thang off. I do the same thing. Even at yellow you are still showing a positive charge to the system (more power into the battery than is being drawn out). It isn't until it goes to red or flashing red that you are draining the battery. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xbimmer |
You'd think that if the connector were the problem that they would replace the VR and stator with a different connection point. Not saying it's the problem, since I don't recall reading anything definitely pointing to that, but maybe BMC recognized that when that cheap little part pukes they have to warranty some not-cheap other parts. Charge monitoring is inexpensive, I use a Kuryakin Battery Meter. It's nice to be able to glance over and see at least one green light of two always lit, even with electric vests and two Hellas burning. I like Ft_bstrd's system better, but I'm glad I had the Kuryakin before he posted his or BMC may not be warrantying my instrument panel problems as we speak. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'd really like to see a voltage meter added to our bikes from the factory. It wouldn't take much. I just don't see a reason why a bike should lose the stator before 15,000 miles. That, to me, is a design flaw. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xbimmer |
I just don't see a reason why a bike should lose the stator before 15,000 miles. And it shouldn't! Aside from the possibility of a badly installed unit pinching the exit wires, or a badly built unit itself, all they do is sit there and produce a current, right? (I'm NO electrical egghead btw). So the way I see it, if the V/R starts dying because it can't keep up anymore and decides to, then the stator and/or 77 will/may go. If the 77 decides it's working too hard and starts to take time off, then the already overworked V/R says "me too" and then the stator dies by burning itself up. Mine was incinerated and smelled like it. When my system went everything died so there was no way to tell who was the horse and who were the carts. My gut though tells me the V/R is the weak link too. Doesn't help that it's behind the tire and right up against the front jug. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xbimmer |
You'd think that if the connector were the problem that they would replace the VR and stator with a different connection point. Which they did! Again I'm not implying because of the 77-connector. The '08 V/R wiring is routed up to the left of the bike and disappears behind the LSS. In the '08 parts guide the V/R looks completely different with an integrated connector instead of the separate Packard 77. I'm thinking of doing something similar to my '06 to get my V/R out into the breeze by moving it up under my LSS, and rerouting the wiring after I dump the 77. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Portero72 |
An update..... Picked up my bike today from Tucson HD  . Now for the 1000 mile trek home to Austin . Had to pay big $$ in labor charges to get it back , not to mention the airfare, lost work, etc these breakdowns have caused. FWIW, the ticket at THD is being left 'open' pending resolution with BCS(and again, all the people at THD have been quite friendly and nice to deal with). I am quite disappointed, not because I seem to have 'lost', or things didn't work out in my favor, but because BCS seems to have been no help at all. Since this ordeal began, I have spoken with 2 separate reps at BCS, and neither EVER returned a phone call. The only time I ever got to speak with the person attending my case was when I actually caught them on the phone. The last rep I spoke with (on Thu morning) was supposed to make some calls and get back to me with info, knowing full well I was driving to AZ to pick the bike up on Friday. I called 4 times on friday, leaving messages each time, and never got a call back. Coincidentally, BCS just happens to be closed on Saturdays, the day I was going to the dealer for my bike. I felt like I was being avoided. A simple call back with 'we are still working on it' would have done wonders. What's more, noone has yet been able to satisfactorily explain to me why the Uly 'cannot handle the load' of 2 55w driving lights. I would be perfectly happy to pay for this if someone at Buell would just come out and say that. They won't, however, because we all know this is not true. So I am off to ATX. I will continue to plead my case, even if I am the one doing all the calling. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Khelton |
That type of treatment from BCS is a shame. We all know our Buells have idiosyncracies..the idiosyncracies and inconveniences are much more tolerable if at least Buell is ensuring that we are being treated well during the problem times. If Buell ever hopes to get more than a .59% marketshare, they will have to be the absolute best in the industry at handling their customers' problems. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Tipsymcstagger |
How about getting some precedent established (just like an attorney would)? Haven't there been several members of this forum who have had this same failure repaired under warranty? Did none of them have auxiliary lights installed on their bikes? I realize Buell isn't a HD product directly, but the HD accessories catalog is filled with light bars intended for use on their touring models. Do the light bars that HD sells include a warning that installation will void the bikes warranty? What about the new Uly Police model? Did Buell completely redesign the charging system to be compatible with the additional lighting and radio loads that bike will have directly from the factory? This is BS. Don't give up without a fight. Tipsy |
