| Author | Message | ||
     Werewulf |
no, this isnt another dreaded gas mileage thread.. i doubt if many actually use their bikes for transportation and really dont care about the gas situation... most threads are about getting a quicker quarter mile...however, since i actually use my bikes for transportation, i would like to do better than 42 mpg... i was riding with a group and one bloke was on an 883 sporty and he got 65 mpg with spirited riding... so, i was thinking about these tubers that are becoming mutant choppers...how about taking an M-2 thats had its motor hacked and forsale cheep... i wouldnt think that an 883 sporty motor would be hard to come by and it would still run good in the light tube frame...what kind of mods to the 883 heads etc would be required to make it fit a tube frame? i see xbs being fitted with blast motors on the xb section..this gas thing might get serious.. | ||
| Zenfrogmaster |
How about going the other direction and putting 883 jugs and pistons on a non-Thunderstorm Cyclone? Might be easier and cheaper to accomplish, but I'm the furthest thing from an expert on the topic. 883s do get great mileage - I have a 2002 with a well-sorted Mikuni and Thunderheader that always gets over 60 mpg. | ||
| Chasespeed |
Well. The main difference is the front mount. The diameter of the bolts, and, MAYBE the spacing. a custom bracket should be pretty easy. Other wise, should all bolt right in. I use my bikes for trans, and always do, unless we are going somewhere as a family(the lake on sundays),or, picking the kids up 3 days a week.... and I still spend probably 100-125 a week on diesel... I am probably AVERAGING 50mpg in my X1, I stop for fuel at 150 miles usually, last time, light came on @ 177. The Sporty is seeing more and more mileage than the Buell these days... just a little easier to relax on, and, getting a set of saddle bags for it to make it a little easier... Good luck,.... Best things for mileage, make the engine more effecient, and keep the motor in the sweet spot... Chase | ||
| Bigdaddy |
I can get 50MPG on my M2 while having fun. Running on the slab I always have to find a bathroom before I'm forced to stop for gas. A very interesting project -- please keep us in the loop if you go forward. | ||
| Bad_karma |
I would think just a cam change with jetting and some timing adjustments should do the trick. If you do it on a tuber optimizing the gear ratio would also help. Joe | ||
| Djkaplan |
You should be able to get at least 50+mpg out of a properly tuned M2. The mileage increase you might get with an 883 wouldn't make up for the glacial acceleration you'd be suffering from. | ||
| Dave_02_1200 |
With today's gas prices this is a good topic for further exploration. Heck, this may be a new dimension of "performance". I have always been averse to the "lean mixture" approach because the higher temperatures, ping, and other related power delivery problems have put me off. However, soft cam timing and taller gearing seem like a good idea. I agree with Dan that 883cc may not be a satisfying approach but I like the idea of using 883 cams to soften the motor and taller gearing seems to make sense (even if you will never pull top RPM in top gear). As I recall, high compression is an asset when searching for mileage so retaining our Thunderstorm pistons/heads may be a real benefit. Seems that would result in a high-torque, lower peak HP motor that should give optimum mileage with nice power delivery. Keep us posted. Thanks, Dave | ||
| Werewulf |
if things get serious enough, gas mileage may become the new performance standard with riders actually bragging about efficiency, who knows...i just thought this might revive a few motorless tubers headed for the landfill via mutant choppers...actually, i never thought i would care how much gas my bikes burned.. i spent 300 bucks last month on gas for my buells...i ride to the mountains a lot... i used to be concerned about the motels and food prices... now its the petrol... | ||
| Jos51700 |
You know, If you build a motor with peak torque down low, and LOTS of torque, it would get decent mileage, because you wouldn't have to open the throttle blade as much. Just a thought. Then you can have your speed and economy, too. A lot of bikes I've seen hotrodded get better economy than their stock counterparts, just because you're not twisting them out to make it go. | ||
| Xodot |
How about incorporating a constantly variable transmission to make maximum use of all that low end torque? | ||
| Dave_02_1200 |
I think the main reason some hot-rodded motors get better mileage than their stock counterparts is that higher compression creates more efficient combustion (and torque). | ||
| Bad_karma |
John I just had my 88" in my S3 return 48MPG. That is as good as the 1203 that it replaced. But a lot of other things have changed. For mpg I would consider going to lightning heads and a smaller carburetor also. Then start cutting some friction loses like roller rockers, friction treatments on pistons and lighter weight lubricants. Maybe adding a crank scraper. Possible different gearing in the primary. Maybe an ignition/fuel injection that would shutdown a cylinder determined by load. Joe | ||
| Buellsrule |
Buy a Blast. | ||
| Jstfrfun |
The Buell is a SPORT bike! If you can't afford the gas, ride a scooter to transport and park the sport bike! (BTW My Vino 125 gets 78mpg with the throttle WFO) | ||
| Werewulf |
well, then... maybe a group buy, to put me into a new scooter.. i catch enough hell for riding a buell, i can just imagine showing up at the dixie grille on a scooter.. | ||
| Dave_02_1200 |
If $4.00 gas @40 MPG on a Buell = 10 cents per mile and 80 MPG on a scooter = 5 cents per mile, you would save 5 just cents per mile by riding a scooter instead of the Buell. If the scooter cost just $1,000.00, you would have to ride it 20,000 miles to save the $1,000.00 to pay for the scooter just to break even. Good scooters cost way more than $1,000.00 and, unless you plan to ride it farther than 20,000 miles before it is worn out, you will lose money on the deal and you will be riding a slow, boring, and dangerous scooter the whole time instead of a cool bike like a Buell. I don't see the wisdom of doing that. If you plan to sell the Buell and use the money to buy a scooter, it might lead to a severe case of seller/buyer's remorse every time you hear a high-compression V-twin pass you. Why not just put some Sportster cams in the Buell and add some higher gearing to improve the mileage? You could return it to its high-performance configuration in one evening any time you wanted to. Besides, you wouldn't have to show up at the dixie grille on a scooter just to save enough money on gas getting there to buy half a glass of beer. | ||
| Werewulf |
i ride about 40k miles a year...if i could reduce the compression a tad so i could run regular gas, that would save me fifty cents a gallon in my area...usually small valves, small cams and high compression help mileage... im not so concerned about the price as i am about the flashbacks of 1974, when it was hard to find fuel at any price...but, the original idea was to resurect some buells that have become mutant victims and are available cheep and make them more exciting than a scooter... | ||
| Bartimus |
Dave 02 1200, LOL, very well said! | ||
| Funjimmy |
Any increase in engine efficiency will have a positive effect on mileage! More efficient = more work (output) from the same input. That being said, any modification to reduce performance will rob efficiency and ultimately cost more than the savings when the cost to modify is also factored in. Do as you feel you must, but remember that you purchased a 1203cc torque machine for the rush of riding one. Neutering it is un-American! | ||
| Jstfrfun |
I think that was my point although indirect. It's a sport bike not a gas miser, if you want a gas miser, buy one. If you want an enemic 880 then buy that but don't pervert your sport bike. Now the mutant is alltogeather a different subject, when a bike has been used up in it's O/E configuration, and another life exists, then why not? (BTW mine is gonna be soooo cool) And they are just show bikes really. | ||
| M2nc |
Commuting the M2 and Uly get about the same 42-45mpg. If I were going to build a gas mileage king Buell, I would not go with a 883, but add the shorter stroke of an XB9 motor with the taller M2 European rear sprocket. The M2 already has a Sportster based cam, so with 984cc and taller gearing you should be able to get over 50mpg like many XB9 riders do. As for my two Buells, the M2 and Uly are close in mileage. The Uly being more comfortable gets ridden on trips more often so it has seen 62mpg where the best on the M2 was 56mpg. But in town commuting both are about the same. On the Uly gas mileage chart started by 08Uly, I have averaged 49mpg over the last 2200 miles on the Uly amd would expect the same out the M2. Reduce CC, put a taller gear on it and maybe a smaller 34mm carb and the M2 could be quite frugal. | ||
| Werewulf |
WELL DUH! i guess i dont speak fluent english... i keep hearing about neutering a good sport-bike...if the motor has already been removed, how is it a good anything but scrap.. did i say anywhere at anytime, that i want to take my S-3 and chop it?? the point is, to take a bike that has been hosed already!..comprendo!... so i would be saving it from the land-fill.. i guess thats unamerican...and since i would actually use it for transportation, it has not died in vain... i will go buy a scooter for a gas mileage if you will buy a busa for speed.. same argument...holy heysus! (Message edited by werewulf on June 14, 2008) (Message edited by werewulf on June 15, 2008) | ||
| Dave_02_1200 |
Good point. I have been daydreaming about making some kind of plug-in electric MC. A "saved" Buell rolling chassis might be a good starting point and it would be unique to say the least. | ||
| Jstfrfun |
No way wulfie, if your idea is to re-build out of a former glory then by all means do the sporty wheaser for mpg. I was under the impression a 1200 was going to be reduced as is. If you re-incarnate your S2 as a re-engineering platform for mpg I say go for it....with gusto! The bike I parted out MOSTLY went to re-assemble another X1 from the ashes back to glory( and it's cost the guy a bundle). | ||
| Aaomy |
as a gas miser i think it would be very cool to see something like a blast motor grafted into a old m2 frame.. something with the blast power and mpg but with the larger frame build to provide you with a slightly more accomodating riding area.. i think you would wind up with a wonderful commuter with great mpg.. if you wanted to go the 883 route.. (another good idea).. i would look for a s2 or (like) 2" exhaust.. when i was running my s2, with fire storm heads.. se bolt in cams.. stock header.. and v&h muffler.. and the 27 tooth front pulley.. every day riding averaged 57 mpg... current set up with race header is still over 50 mpg.. stock blast but jetted rich,"going to take care of that soon", is getting 65 mpg.. ps all these are real world comparisons at the same speeds and riding styles.. with the daughters on the back of the blast and still jetted rich.. 69 mpg for the same route.. but only measured once.. these are taken on my commute to and from work.. 42 miles one way, with plenty of hills, valleys, and corners.. hope some of these numbers help.. aaron | ||
| Doughnut |
stock blast but jetted rich,"going to take care of that soon", is getting 65 mpg.. with the daughters on the back of the blast and still jetted rich.. 69 mpg for the same route.. A girl on the back yields better mpg? Gotta get me one of those.  | ||
| Aaomy |
when they are small and you are ridding with more finess and less jumping on the throttle. soft starts and stops. yes better mpg.. girls, ya want one.. i have two and a little boy less than a month away.. the girls are 9 and 10.. about 65 lbs soak and wet.. the blast was set up for an aftermarket exhaust.. she is back to stock configuration except the carb is still jetted rich from the previous set up.. planning on adjusting the jetting but waiting on other ordered parts.. | ||
| V74 |
10.5 - 1 comp forged pistons roller rockers lighter engine internals better oil pump scavenging all improve engine efficiency = better gas mileage | ||
| Jstfrfun |
Hey Wulf, I think all you gotta do is swap heads on your 883 to Buell heads for mount points right? |
