| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
The following message from Larry Schwartz, Chairman of the NYS AMA Political Action Committee, showed up just now on the AMA District 34 Yahoo Group: "Americade motorcycle stops and inspections are just the beginning of what the State Police and DMV envision. These stops will start being made throughout the state as I warned before Americade began. Prospector and I have tried hard to get this stopped at the legislature, but unfortunately the procedure is legal and not considered discriminatory because the cops etc also make stops of all other kinds of vehicles. AMA National has confirmed that the procedure is legal. "It would be wise to make sure that when you ride, from now on, have your license, registration, insurance etc at hand. They will also be looking for illegal motorcycle parts on custom bikes. If you have documentation for other than OEM parts, it would be wise, again, to have that on you. "Loud pipes, a problem the motorcycling community is facing now will be cause for tickets now, but worse later on. There is the possibility that a bike could be confiscated by the police. If that happens, both Bob and I need to know about it right away." Larry Schwartz President, AMA District III Chairman, AMA-PAC of New York State | ||
| Tramp |
weird to see the AMA jumping on the ship that the 'fringe' element had been piloting, for decades | ||
| Greenlantern |
Yeah, My wife and I were fortunate enough to get one of these stops performed on us a few years back in the POURING FRIGGIN" RAIN ! After somehow finding a spot in the ankle deep mud on the side of a extremely busy Parkway that my VFR would not tip over in, disconnecting our intercoms to dismount, I was told we were just stopped for a routine " Registration/inspection stop"! It was one of only two instances in my lifetime that I ever mouthed off to a Law Enforcement Officer which in both cases I used the terms "T.J Hooker" and "Roscoe" in response to the explanations given. ( The other incident involved a speed trap on my corner while my father laid bedridden in his final days!) The practice may be legal, But It's Profiling pure and simple, every bit morally bankrupt as racial profiling or any other such practice. | ||
| Jaimec |
One other posting I read about implied the police were using a "Helmet testing device." WTF is that?? The only helmet testing device I'm aware of will DESTROY the helmet being tested! Anyone have any idea?? | ||
| Greenlantern |
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| Tramp |
"The practice may be legal, But It's Profiling pure and simple, every bit morally bankrupt as racial profiling or any other such practice." You're kidding, right? | ||
| Tramp |
"When they outlaw rider-to-rider intercoms, only outlaws will have rider-to-rider intercoms" "They can have my intercom when they pry it from my cold, dead, aeorstitch-covered hands" | ||
| Greenlantern |
You're kidding, right? No I am not, My wife and I were put in a dangerous situation for the "crime" of riding a motorcycle. I was not speeding, did not give any appearances of the "stereotypical" red flags one uses when observing a motorcyclist. I have never been stopped in my car for a "papers" check and have been stopped because I was Black ( by a black officer by the way who was honest about it and explained why). These incidents probably skew my opinion to the extreme side of the issue but my opinion stands as presented. | ||
| Greenlantern |
Oh and I do not "kid" I Joke!  | ||
| Jaimec |
GL, in the future, note where and when the stop occurred, and get the Trooper's badge number and name. Be respectful and polite, but get that information. Then make sure you report him as soon as you get home. Trust me... it works. | ||
| Greenlantern |
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny- bc-ny--motorcycledeaths0530may30,0,1662755.story This whole issue probably would not bother me at all if this was done on a regular basis and sampled other types of vehicles in addition to motorcycles. | ||
| Tramp |
It's not as "morally bankrupt" as racial profiling. racial profiling is based upon the factor of race, which is predetermined by birth and, (except in extreme instances of kings of pop with chimps named 'bubbles') as such, is irreversible and without the purview of will. motorcyling is neither. | ||
| Jaimec |
Personally, I'd like to drive by a police checkpoint that was full of soccer moms who were forced to stand by and watch as the troopers crushed their cell phones under their boot heels. But that's just me... | ||
| Greenlantern |
Jaime, in both cases (the motorcycle and racial stops) I did get the badge numbers. My wife filed a complaint on the former ( who complains better than a wife?  ) and we decided not to complain on the other as the Officer was very forthcoming with the explanation ( We were coming home from a social at Planting Fields at 1:30 a.m) and we simply looked way out of place in that neighborhood at that hour (circa 1994). I have been pulled over quite a few times on a bike and agree respect and politeness go a long way towards a happy outcome as i have always come away "clean and free". I just have a low tolerance for what I deem to be a flagrant abuse of judgement. I have a deep respect for Law Enforcement and any other public servant who has to deal with the reality of society on a daily basis. It just pisses me off to see those resources applied in such a half assed way at times.  | ||
| Hammer71 |
If say every third vehicle is stopped regardless of weather then whats the problem? I'm sure the trooper didnt want to be standing in the pouring rain checking registrations and inspections, profiling? get real. | ||
| Greenlantern |
It's not as "morally bankrupt" as racial profiling. Tramp, my point was that motorcyclist are being cast as their own "race" by the powers that be which in my opinion makes the practice a form of racial profiling (at least in a analogical sense). I did not mean to compare Racism to Race-ism. (damitt this typing thing sucks! When are we going to get those video phones and flying cars that I was promised in 1975 would be here in 2000!?!?) | ||
| Cataract2 |
I'm with GL on this. Though, I won't go nuts on the officers just doing their jobs and having to go with commands given from higher ups (ie: the elected) who are the ones ordering this. | ||
| Tramp |
I just don't see it as 'profiling'. | ||
| Damnut |
white rich kids know nothing of profiling. | ||
| Hammer71 |
I know a bit about it and this isnt it. | ||
| Greenlantern |
I still do but it's my opinion and that is all.The fact that it is legal makes the point moot.I can count all of my bad riding expiriences on one hand (two breakdowns,a seagull in the face and the mud incident ) so forgive me if one sticks so strongly in my mind. The flatbeds are out in my neck of the woods again so I am counting on being stopped soon as the xb draws way more attention than my vfr ever xcould hope to. But I will think of this thread and smile as the officer asks me "where the hell is your muffler?"  | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
whatever happened to the notion of only pulling people over for cause? When did it become OK to stop people at will? I must have missed that memo | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Damnut, what about poor white kids? | ||
| Tramp |
"white rich kids know nothing of profiling." If any white rich kids weigh in on this subject, feel free to share that sentiment. Until then, you may as well post that Romulan sex merchants know nothing of profiling. I can tell you that, as a "1%er" motorcyclist, I do know a bit about it, as well. I've stood for hours working parking at runs while NYS troopers in BDUs kept M16s trained on me, and I've been hauled in with the rest of the crew just for being in the wrong place... I have little problem with these incidents: We all make our own beds in this life, and those situations were my choice. Trust me, Mr. and Mrs. Tour bike being stopped along the interstate for a registration check, while undoubtedly an inconvenience that caused them to remove their intercom system for a few minutes, is not profiling. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Tramp, I sent you an email last week, check your spam filter. | ||
| Jaimec |
If they pull you over simply because of your choice of vehicle, that is profiling. If you are BLATANTLY breaking the law with a loud exhaust, on one wheel, wearing a novelty pudding bowl helmet that's one thing. But if you're on a perfectly legal motorcycle, with all of the necessary stickers clearly up to date, a legal helmet (where required) and obeying the speed limit and they STILL pull you over? Call it anything you like... that's PROFILING. It is ESPECIALLY profiling if they are ignoring every loud automobile and truck going by, and just singling out motorcycles. According to Larry Schwartz's E-Mail, however, the NYS Police were spot checking ALL vehicles. This is contrary to other reports I've been sent that indicate the police were running "Motorcycle Only" checkpoints on the highways leading into Lake George. | ||
| Bbbob |
Questioning DOT stickers?? How is LEO going to determine if a DOT sticker is legitimate? We've all seen some very flimsy helmets that are DOT (and some very good ones that aren't). | ||
| Tramp |
you're mistaken- his email only cites stopping all 'types' of vehicles, not all vehicles. this means that if they're stopping 1 out of 200 minivans, then minivans count as one type of vehicle they're stopping. When you consider the fact that a significant section of riders attending Americade wear non-DOT helmets and have non-EPA exhausts, the practice can be seen as both reasonable and prudent. Here in NY, as with most states, the vast majority of HD riders are wearing non-DOT helmets. This makes them an easy mark for checkpoint tickets, which , when implemented en masse, provide a significant source of revenue in the wake of skyrocketing fuel costs. NYS police vehicles run around the clock, burning obscene amounts of fuel. The riders are aware that their helmets are illegal (NYS mc operators' manual), so, from a legal perspective, it's fair game. It's not profiling, or, more succinctly, in response to greenlantern's opining, it's not "every bit morally bankrupt as racial profiling . ...not by a long shot. } | ||
| Tramp |
...and who is "Larry" to say "If that happens, both Bob and I need to know about it right away.", anyway? | ||
| Greenlantern |
you're mistaken- his email only cites stopping all 'types' of vehicles, not all vehicles. this means that if they're stopping 1 out of 200 minivans, then minivans count as one type of vehicle they're stopping. I agree Here in NY, as with most states, the vast majority of HD riders are wearing non-DOT helmets. Here on Long Island (whatever state that is in these days) The non DOT helmet thing runs the spectrum in near equal numbers. Most people just seem to notice the HD guys more. }Questioning DOT stickers?? How is LEO going to determine if a DOT sticker is legitimate? They can't by any scientific method so It will be left to their discretion. That is not their short failing but the helmet industry's. |
