| Author | Message | ||
     Thurstonbuell |
They are looking at it tomorrow for the clutch leak , and asked them to also take a look at the ECM and re-flash , but after 900+ miles since the re-flash , I have no improvement , been very frustrating , especially knowing how smooth she once was. | ||
| Bigdog_tim |
I am planning on doing some riding this weekend. I have been getting tired of the very rough running between 3 and 4K RPM. It is very uncomfortable keeping a steady 20 MPH. On my bike that is maybe 3200 RPM - and she acts like she is running too lean. I called my dealer and was told that the Buell guy is off until Friday. Was also told that even though I have had the reflash, it needs it again. The service manager was not specific is there is a new re-re-flash or if the first one was somehow miss-applied. She said something about the bikes engine temp during reflash. Does this make sense to anyone? | ||
| Slypiranna |
No, it doesn't make sense...and your not alone in questioning what has been said or not said. The information that I've been given has been vague at best. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
He told me that they did have a problem meeting noise regulations at a certain rpm in 3rd or 4th gear so they installed this device that pulls back the throttle to 11 percent to reduce noise. If this is true, that is plain dangerous. If this is what I have felt the handful of times my 11 has cutout, it seems to be triggered when going WFO throttle. WFO to 11% throttle seemingly randomly, sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. It is NOT fun to experience. | ||
| Kttemplar |
Got the re-flash and it definitely runs smoother in the lower RPMs. I drive in NYC all the time and the "jerkiness" was a real pain. Now after the re-flash, it is much more easy to endure. The traffic still sucks, but at least I do not have to battle the bike and the traffic. Now I just have to battle the traffic and taxis. | ||
| Xb9 |
Sly, just resent it through the PM feature on this board, let me know if you got it. | ||
| Slypiranna |
"He told me that they did have a problem meeting noise regulations at a certain rpm in 3rd or 4th gear so they installed this device that pulls back the throttle to 11 percent to reduce noise. If this is true, that is plain dangerous. If this is what I have felt the handful of times my 11 has cutout, it seems to be triggered when going WFO throttle. WFO to 11% throttle seemingly randomly, sounds like a recipe for disaster to me. It is NOT fun to experience." Maybe they shut this function "off" in the new reflash? Again, anyone with real data what to elaborate upon all this? It would, again, be most appreciated. | ||
| Ccryder |
Sly: Trust me, they did not turn it off in the re-flash! Neil S. | ||
| Blake |
"WFO to 11% throttle seemingly randomly, sounds like a recipe for disaster to me." Harlan, there's nothing random about it and there is no disaster. Step away from the computer and go for a ride. Here's the deal: At the low engine speeds involved WOT is no different as far as the engine is concerned versus 11% throttle opening. The only effect is to reduce the noise emitted from the airbox. This is not something that is exclusive to Buell. Plenty of other motorcycle manufacturers use the same scheme to pass noise emissions regulations. Okay? Good! Now Breeeeaaaathhhhh! | ||
| Ccryder |
B: It would not be an issue if I could make it happen every time at a certain load, certain rpm, certain gear, certain throttle opening....... but I can't. I do know when it happens to either drop a gear or just don't pass. It happened to me 3 times this week. 2x when passing, 1x when playing. This is out of 450+ miles and 4 days of riding. No fun! Neil S. | ||
| Slypiranna |
Blake, Are you stating facts here? Yes, no, maybe so? Are you absolute and certain that the ONLY purpose of the noid is for EPA noise regulation? Please answer these two questions. Thanks! | ||
| Dre99gsx |
I think he means "by 11%". | ||
| Ccryder |
Guess I could try the 'noid cable disconnect and see if I still get the throttle "pull back". Something to think about??????? | ||
| Blake |
That was three questions. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
It would not be an issue if I could make it happen every time at a certain load, certain rpm, certain gear, certain throttle opening....... but I can't I thought that it was repeatable, as I hit the same 270 degree freeway onramp two or three times and suffered the stumble. Every time I had the same speed (40-45), gear (3rd), RPM (appx. 4K) & throttle opening WFO (or damn close). The first time it really caught me offguard as it would most if you are straightening the bike up and expecting the onslaught of the monster motor....then getting it for a split second, then nothing... Interestingly enough, the next couple times I tried it, the 1125r pulled like a freight train as it should--no stumble. It isn't completely random, but certainly isn't consistent either. Can someone please explain how this this technique works to satisfy the EPA? It just seems annoying and dangerous to me. (Message edited by fresnobuell on May 24, 2008) | ||
| Bigblock |
Personally, I think that the system is not operating correctly when this happens, as I have had someting similar happen, giving it 30% or more throttle, and having nothing happen, roll in and out, and then it comes on. This has happened to me about 4 times in 4,000 miles. | ||
| Jpfive |
Fresno, It has happened to me also, exactly as you described. It is nothing subtle, and has the potential for unsettling bike and rider at a bad time. I have not found it to be repeatable or predictable, but apparently random. I experienced it three times during my Deal's Gap trip. Each time in third gear and WOT after short shifting into third. FWIW, this is with the reflash. I will add one thing to your description. Each of these occasions was during initial acceleration from a stop, and after a warm start. Jack | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Personally, I think that the system is not operating correctly when this happens, as I have had someting similar happen, giving it 30% or more throttle, and having nothing happen, roll in and out, and then it comes on. This has happened to me about 4 times in 4,000 miles. Bigblock, your frequency of having the stumble is about the same as mine. However, your throttle application is completely opposite, if I am reading correctly. So you have experienced the stumble at moderate throttle openings and none at more aggressive throttle? | ||
| Bigblock |
I was rolling into it for decent accelleration when it happeneed, once merging onto the freeway, twice passing a car(YIKES!) and once just playing. I was not at WFO, but was cranking into it pretty good, from a cracked open "cruising" throttle position in 3rd gear. I got to a third or half open TP when it bacame apparent nothing was happening. The first 2 times it happened, I held that TP for a few seconds. and nothing happened, as if the throttle plates didn't open, or the fuel or spark quit. When I rolled off and back on, then it seemed to operate properly. The last 2 times it happened, I rolled off and back on immediately, and the motor then responded properly. The motor was good and hot on a hot day 3 out of 4 times, and the last time the temp was cool out, and the engine was normal, 175 or 180, I don't remember exactly. The hot times, the engine was over 200, and the AIT was over 100. I talked to my service manager about it each time, and he has had the bike and was never able to duplicate the problem. I believe he has informed Buell as I described it to him. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
When it happenned to me, I held the TP steady and pinched my butt cheeks to save my shorts.....after a two count the engine came back to life. Gotta hand on tight at that point. | ||
| Slypiranna |
Blake, Now that I know you read those "three" questions...can you please answer any two of them. It will be most appreciated. Thank you. | ||
| Unibear12r |
I picked up my 1125 today after having the reflash done. I thought that the bike wasn't that bad at low rpm surging before but I could tell it was smoother before even getting out of the dealer's lot. I think it's smoother now even at freeway speeds. Just before getting home I cruised the local park at steady rpms as low as 2k with very little surging. Big, unexpected change for the better. Bike is a Dec07 build. | ||
| Chameleon |
I had mine reflashed at the 2nd service (~7,200 miles). I went 355 miles overdue and had noticed that the bike was running really rough and actually died while idling several times. I stopped riding it and asked the dealer to come pick it up in their trailer for the service, which they were happy to do. Service was performed along with the ECU flash. I forgot to request a printout of the flash confirmation, but I trust the dealer and noticed the differences others here have mentioned after getting it back so I'm confident that the flash was successful. However, after a few hundred miles, the bike was again stumbling and died at idle a couple times. It was toward the end of the day on Friday and I had weekend plans of over 500 miles in remote areas, so I had to have the bike working properly... I called a friend who rides an Aprilia (Rotax-powered and does his own wrenching) and asked if I could come by so we could figure this out. He said sure and prepared for my arrival. I made it over on the bike and we determined to look at the air filter and spark plugs first. We tore into the bike. Air filter looked fine. We figured out how to get to the plugs (the front one is somewhat difficult to get out). We observed that the front plug was completely fouled and that it appeared there was an insufficient seal to the plug tube because the plug had become a bit rusted and there was rusty dust on the outside of the boot. Both plugs showed evidence of the motor running rich, which I had also noticed. Called around looking for "hotter" plugs, but couldn't find any. Finally settled to just get OEM plugs from the closest dealer. Called and got someone in parts. He informed me that they had just closed 3 minutes ago, but that I could buy them over the phone and he would leave them in a certain place just outside for me to pickup. Installed the plugs, making sure to get a good seal around the boot, and it's been running great all weekend, 1,000 miles later. I've now got over 9,000 miles on my 1125R. It's a great bike! | ||
| Ccryder |
So what implements of destruction are needed???? | ||
| Chameleon |
You must first remove the front air intake behind the steering head. The air temp sensor is on the right and can just be pulled out once the intake is unfastened. There is a connector on top and wires for another sensor (I forget which we determined it was) and 1 cooling hose are also attached to this intake. A small ratchet for the torx bit is required to fit in the space occupied by the intake to remove the bolt securing the coil/plug boot. Then, in order to remove the boot, you must pull it out at an angle, forcing the bottom part to bend as you do so. It's a very tight tolerance. (Message edited by Chameleon on May 26, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
Sly, If you would like to clarify or question anything I've stated please feel free. I am not the be-all, end-all of Buell technical information. I do know for a fact absolutely and certainly that the solenoid actuated throttle subsystem exists purely to address noise emissions compliance issues. I also know for a fact that at the low engine speeds involved, closing the throttle from 100% to whatever the intended/prescribed throttle opening may be (supposedly 11%), will have negligible effect on engine performance. This was stated to counter the ignorant and alarmist assertion that "WFO to 11% throttle seemingly randomly, sounds like a recipe for disaster to me." In context and in that respect, yes, what I've stated is 100% accurate and factual. If you are intent upon nit-picking my comments out of context, you may find clarifications that are warranted. Of course if scrutinized there may be some negligible difference in engine performance between WOT and 11% open throttle at the low engine speeds involved. So I most correctly might has stated "negligible difference" rather than "no difference." My extreme bad. The bottom line is that the problem reported and documented here, experienced by a number of folks, is not in any way shape or form due to an 11% throttle opening snapping to WOT, but a closed throttle suddenly snapping to full open. That indeed is a very serious problem and one that is not due to operation of the engine per design or intent. (Message edited by blake on May 27, 2008) | ||
| Chameleon |
Seems like the reflash doesn't stop the random overnight discharges either  Mine wouldn't start after being left alone for a mere 31 hours, post update. I was late for work, so I just jumped it and took off, making sure to keep it in the upper RPMs (no problem as I was already running late  ). Took it out for lunch that same day and it's been fine since.} | ||
| Helicon |
Seems like the reflash doesn't stop the random overnight discharges either} Same thing happened to me after having the flash update. Bike sat for about 24 hours and was dead the next day. I went out and bought a charger/maintainer, charged the battery and has been fine since. And I have not tendered the battery at all. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I was late for work, so I just jumped it and took off, making sure to keep it in the upper RPMs (no problem as I was already running late Most alternators are designed for running requirements. Charging a battery while running the bike can take a lot of amps, and the extra heat can be bad for the alternator. Best to avoid if possible. Sounds like it was not possible in your case and you did what you had to do. | ||
| Chevycummins |
I had the reprogram done already and my battery went dead for the first time this weekend. Good one day, dead the next. I suspect the instrument cluster is the intermittent draw and I will be keeping track of it from now on. |
