| Author | Message | ||
     Sarodude |
Hey Ray- Are those pushrod tubes on the Blast? Cool! -Saro | ||
| Buellnuts |
Debbie and I are still planning on coming! Cuzzin Ferris!, You better get your priorities straightend out cuz I aint seen you in quite a spell! If Rocket can come from (The Land Of The Triumphs) you can make it from Lake isabeller! In The Rain Forest, Bob | ||
| Blake |
Didn't one of the moto rags, can't recall which, bypass the speed limiter on a stock Busa or ZX12R and get to a measured 198 mph? Even with ram air those bike aren't putting out more than 180 STD RWHP are they? I've engineered 60 FT diameter satellite earth station antennas that will withstand 200+mph winds. They sit on the edge of a cliff in Hong Kong overlooking the Ocean. They cannot go off line when the anual typhoons hit. Trust me, I know what the forces of wind/air can do.  It is certainly good to be cautious. You will be looking at around 74 PSF stagnation pressure at 200 mph in Bonneville, but the 0.4? drag coefficient drops that 74 psf down to a fairly nonthreatening 30 psf. We can verify your drag coefficient (CD) from last years results to get an idea of the forces involved. I'll estimate that you had somewhere around 150 actual RWHP (~85% of SAE?) last year with the RR1000 on NO2 at Bonneville. I get the 85% due to the lesser atmospheric pressure at altitude and warmer than STD/SAE reference temperature. It's simply the air density ratio verus STD/SAE conditions. I'm estimating since I can't recall exactly what the dyno said the RR was pumping out on NO2. I think 150 is probably even a bit high, but that is the conservative approach for what we are trying to do. If the N02 hadn't run out on the 2nd pass, top speed would have been what, somewhere around 185 MPH? So we have... Velocity (V) = 185 mph Power (P) = 150 HP Air Density = 85% STD (guesstimate basedo on altitude and temperature) Converting from MPH to FT/s... 150 RWHP equates to... Solving for force (LB) gives... I suspect the power actually reaching the tarmac is significantly less, due to the wheel spin issue. That would give us a lower force in proportion. Hmmm, lets calculate the incident area cooresponding to a drag coefficient of 0.4... Q=0.85*185MPH2/391=74.4 PSF A=304LB/74.4LB/FT2= ~4.1 FT2 Not too unreasonable, maybe a tad low. I think we are in the ball park. Assuming the HP estimate is close anyway. (Pretty big assumption, but probably within 10% eh?) So anyway at 200 mph the drag would be... (200/185)2*304 LB = 355 LB Coefficient of lift? Like I mentioned before, the WSB and GP bikes are WAY light and pushing towards 200 mph at sea level. No worries. Plus, won't the bike will be stablilized by the tremendous gyroscopic action of the spinning wheels? This is interesting... I'd never calculated HP in terms of MPH before, it works out to be 550/5280*3600 = 374.86 Mile-LB/HR = 1HP What were we talking about again?  | ||
| Xgecko |
Blake, never say that mother nature can't blow your house down. The Navy had a set of 4 Satalite antena's at the top of a 400' cliff in Guam. They had survived some extreamly strong typhoons (and supertyphoons) with out the slightest bit of wear...then along came Paka, what might have been the strongest Super Typhoon in History. Sustained winds at 200mph with gust recorded at 236mph. We had trash dumpsters move/roll/fly 4 miles...and those 4 antenas??? There were a few pieces of one left the next day they never did find the rest. BTW I was there at the time and all I can say what a party....3 weeks no power somebody's got to drink the beer it'll go bad | ||
| Firemanjim |
I know last year in 130 club you could have 2 piece zip together leathers.I thought I saw an addendum to this years rules allowing Aerostich style stuff,but I left rule book at shop.Can someone comment.I got a 1 piece set of leathers from E-bay for 165.00 and just missed a set for my son for 105.Both very nice stuff.There are always alot on their site. | ||
| Aaron |
Blake ...you're wrong on the lift thing. An analogy to a bike with a totally different fairing doesn't outweigh real world experience with the actual fairing being used. I have a responsibility to do what I can to make sure Richard is safe. That's why the swingarm is stretched. You're not going to be one of these people who looks over every aspect of the bike and asks me why I didn't do it some other way, are you?  I'll have to sick Rocket on ya! Seriously, I should warn you since you haven't been out there with us yet, I go into pretty much a state of deep concentration on the bike during the course of the event. Some say I get wound up pretty tight. It's hard for me to deal with distractions. I'm kind of a type A anyway, but I become type AAA+ during the event. Be prepared for it. It ain't personal. | ||
| Aaron |
FMJ: You're talking 130 club rules? Those are online. Or record classes? The rule book says "One piece leather or other materials certified by a recognized manufacturer to be suitable for the application is required. Two piece suits zippered together are allowed." | ||
| Road_Thing |
How about an updated attendees list? I'd like to make sure my registration form fell into the right hands... r-t | ||
| Blake |
Aaron, Like I said... "But in practicality, I really don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Aaron does (know what HE is talking about). I'm just offering my off the top of my head thoughts for him to consider." Never mind me. When it comes to splitting the air on an American V-Twin Racebike at 200+mph that's YOUR gig, YOUR bike, YOUR baby. And besides, why mess with success. | ||
| X1glider |
So have you decided how you're going to get there? Still could use the company on my 2 wheeled excursion. 2 days by way of the Hoover Dam and from what I hear a great ride from Vegas to Wendover via Hwy 93. | ||
| Blake |
XG, The typical earth station antenna is designed to withstand 125 mph winds while maintaining the capability to operate in 45 mph winds. A "typhoon proof" antenna is a whole different beast. The unfortunate aspect of a parabolic "dish" is its extreme 1.5 coefficient of drag. Many antennas in known high wind areas are designed to survive highs winds but only when stowed in the upside down umbrella mode (elevation angle of 90o). If they don't make it to stow mode before the storm hits, they often fail catastrophically. I've seen photos of a competitor's 100' antenna in Bude, England that suffered one such an embarrassing failure. You are correct though, you can design an antenna to survive 300 mph winds, but flying debris is as big a risk as wind forces when the typhoons hit. No antenna is designed to withstand a direct hit by sizeable solid matter at 200+mph. But when it come to a typhoon proof antenna with my name on the structural drawings, you can be sure that it is there to stay. Well, as long as the installation crew bolted it together correctly. I was trained in the military aircraft industry, where if stuff breaks, people die. | ||
| Aaron |
Don't get me wrong, I take in all kinds of input. I mull it all over and cogitate and sometimes compute and then make my best call, as to what's worthwhile to do and what should be avoided. That's kinda what racing is all about to me, it's a reflection on how the builder thinks, what he thinks is important and what he thinks isn't. Ultimately, it's a competition of ideas and thought processes. That's why everyone does it differently. I personally tend to lean to the "keep it simple" and "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" side of things. I wasn't always that way, though, there was a time when I thought (as many people do) that it's necessary to completely re-engineer any vehicle you were preparing for competition. But over the years I've changed my view somewhat and now I realize that making too many changes can hurt you, too. I have a finite amount of time and resources and when I spend them changing things that don't *really* need to be changed, it takes attention away from the things that really matter, as well as increasing the probability of a problem. So I try to be careful how I spend time and money, it's the whole ball game. Believe me, I carefully considered this swingarm deal, fully cognizant of the fact that I was trading off traction for reduced lift, as well as introducing the potential for more problems. It's a judgement call, and I could be proved wrong, but I also have some pretty good indicators that the bike is getting unsafe at these speeds, and I can't just ignore that, Richard's neck is on the line. So I made the call to stretch it, and at the same time hedge my bet by preparing a stock swingarm ready to slap on if in fact we can't get the power down. But, I'm seeing other people with even longer swingarms that are getting the power down, so hopefully it won't hurt us too bad. A lot may depend on salt conditions. The race bike is *almost* done, gotta gear it properly and take care of the bodywork and a couple other details and it'll be there. I like getting it done early, it gives me some time to ponder it and look for problems and just refine little things here and there. Plus, I want to go back into the Blast one more time and see if I can't find some more. I never seem to run out of ideas for things to try. Man I'm getting pumped over this deal ... look forward to seeing you soon ... you are coming over for the dyno party, right? | ||
| Blake |
X1G, No freaking way! You are a maniac! Well, maybe, let me think about it. | ||
| Xgecko |
Blake...off topic but all antena's locked in stow position, all bolts checked as part of pre typhoon check out. Debris may have been a factor but there was no one outside looking at the time | ||
| Court |
>>>>I can't just ignore that, Richard's neck is on the line. That's an incredibly ACCURATE statement. I had a very long talk (and maintain contact while on-site) with Janis (Mother of two of the world's ornriest kids) Nallin. We are not clarvoyant and our pledge to to each and everything we possibly can to acheive the goals we've set consistent with Safety and ever cognizant that we are hobbyists doing this for fun. I trust Buell to engineer the bike. I trust Aaron to build it. I trust Richard to ride it. That part's easy. The tough part is insuring that the trust the Nallin family places in us is merited. Now, for the "Coup de Elf", please realize (and this'll sound plenty arrogant) that there are a host of VERY smart guys and gals here. Enter into an engineering argument with any member of this board with caution. This diversity or thought, culture and perspective is the reason I have trophies on my desk and some folks have gas receipts from former trips. This year is going to be a total BLAST and, by the way, I am referring Blake to Press Chief Gess as an "engineering resource" to be interviewed. I am praying someone asks him . . . "er, what can you tell me about contact patch". Court | ||
| Pammy |
[Seriously, I should warn you since you haven't been out there with us yet, I go into pretty much a state of deep concentration on the bike during the course of the event. Some say I get wound up pretty tight. It's hard for me to deal with distractions. I'm kind of a type A anyway, but I become type AAA+ during the event. Be prepared for it. It ain't personal.] Dr, Aaronstein, I presume? | ||
| Madduck |
Elves, The group on the salt all tend to be a little intense. Wes and Pammy get there pretty damn quick also. Paul | ||
| Court |
Aaron: I found the speedometer that you are going to need......  | ||
| Sparky |
Speedos, electronic that is. CW mentions using a Garmin GPS III from Ebay for under $150. Not a bad idea. It's accurate to 0.1 mph, has a max speed indicator and if you ever get lost, use it to backtrack your way to the starting point. Really useful for those with rear wheel drive speedos desiring accuracy. Sparky | ||
| Ferris |
Cuzzin Ferris!, You better get your priorities straightend out cuz I aint seen you in quite a spell! cuzzin' Bob, priorities are SUCH a bitch! what you are witnessing here is the slow, almost glacier-like mental growth of an older, semi-wiser Ferris Bueller. as such, can't do the salt this year, but MAYBE next year (so i can see in person what Aaron throws together for the 300 Club :-) FB | ||
| Blake |
That's a hell of an idea Sparky. Aaron, you have a handheld GPS you can stick on the bike? It would be too cool to know the peak speed for each run. | ||
| Aaron |
That would be cool. No, I don't have one. Do even these small handhelds for backpacking and such measure speed and record max speed? I've never owned one. | ||
| Blake |
Me neither, but yes I believe they do. Court is the electronophile though. Court? Got GPS? | ||
| Court |
Yep.................I'll make certain we have the proper one on site. I use the one in my palm pilot, but I think I know of a better one that will weigh but an ounce or so and provide the info we need. I'll have one sent to Aaron to fiddle with on the bike. Court | ||
| Court |
Anybody else getting excited?.....  | ||
| Aaron |
I don't actually have to wear that thing, do I? | ||
| Court |
Somehow I doubt anyone there will be tough enough to MAKE you wear it...... | ||
| Jvv |
Thought you guys, gals, would like to FMJ's S2 as it is getting close to the finished product............took these yesterday..........used a link to save Blake some BW.......... FMJ'S S2 PICS    ride safe........Jack | ||
| Firemanjim |
Yes, I was refering to 130 club rules.I thought that was the question that was asked.Could someone come with Aerostich style stuff for 130 club.All others need the real deal. | ||
| Aaron |
I was confused because even though you mentioned 130 club, you asked about the rule book. 130 club isn't in the rule book, it's a USFRA only thing. Far as I know, their web site is the only place to see the rules. How's the bike coming? Working like a dog on it? Can't wait to see it and hear it run. You're welcome to bring it over and tune anytime you want, it's a hell of a lot easier and more accurate and faster than trying to tune at the salt. We're having a dyno party for several days before the event. My bike has absolutely consumed me for the last month or so. Morning till night on weekends and every night after work. I expect to finish it this weekend though. But then I'm going to work on the Blast again. Speedweek starts this weekend, it'll be interesting to watch the results. I'm sure several of our records (and planned records) are in people's gunsights. |
