| Author |
Message |
    
Stbuell
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 08:28 pm: | 
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I have an XB12s with surging issues. Same problem a lot of people have in here. Surging at 3000 rpm steady throttle. Has any found a solution yet? I been searching through the knowledge vault and have tried some things but no luck yet. Dealer says it's characteristic of the bike. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 09:20 pm: |
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"Dealer says it's characteristic of the bike."
Find another dealer. Verify timing and TPS calibration. |
Stbuell
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 09:32 pm: |
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are these things I can do myself? |
Lane
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 11:03 pm: |
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I'm new to BadWeb put had to let you know I'm having the same problem. I went to my local dealership for service. The technician rode it on and off for a week. He felt the surging but couldn't find the cause. Since then several knowledgeable people have told me they think it is running too lean. I have an appointment for service (June 3rd) at a different dealership to see if they can fix this. I'll let you know the results. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, May 23, 2008 - 11:24 pm: |
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Not likely. Find another dealership who is pro-Buell, expert in Buell motorcycle technology, and customer friendly. |
Stbuell
| | Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 09:27 pm: |
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would a power commander take care of this problem? |
9_ford
| | Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 11:28 pm: |
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my 08 uly is back at the shop and has been there over a week , surge below 3000 rpm and intake "cough" , the "cough" almost results is dropping the bike in corners in town on takeoff , on the road works fine , my uly is bone stock with 1900 kms it will not return until fixed , the dealer is trying hard but i believe it is a programming issue aka the 1125r , i have yet to call buell customer service until the dealer is 100% sure its not something they missed , its a damn shame i really enjoy the bike , good thing my two 20+ year old rice burners work fine , i do not want to install any power commanders , if buell or hd made it then they should fix it |
Lane
| | Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 09:13 am: |
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Stbuell, someone suggested to me that a commander might be able to tweek that problem out. My bike is an 08 and I really don't want to go that route. I don't think there is a commander for the 08's yet anyway. But it might be a solution for you.
9 ford, I didn't mention it earlier but mine "coughs" occasionally also. I have about the same mileage as you do.
Lane |
75aztec
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 02:04 pm: |
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I was about to ask the same thing. My '04XB12S has only coughed when cold. It has a consistent surge or hesitation between 2000 and 3000 RPM only (which is in the range of normal highway speed ie: 5th gear, 60mph=2750RPM). I changed plugs thinking that might help, and found the previous owner had tied open the exhaust bypass valve when installing the K&N filter. I have 4700 miles on the bike. Any ideas or is it just what it is? Thanks!
Peter |
9_ford
| | Posted on Monday, June 02, 2008 - 09:05 pm: |
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well its 3 weeks now , as of yet no cure , i would not mind it if it was cold but hot no way , its as if i was working on the first fuel injected cars again 20+ years ago ,might have been ok then but nowadays no way with the technology availible , i convinced its a programming issue , we should not have to resort to other tuners to repair a factory blunder , another call is in order , now if the bikes are running "rich" how did the mighty epa or carb allow the bikes to pollute the air with unburned hydrocarbon's ??? |
Stbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 04:36 pm: |
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Lane
It's June 3rd. Do you know where your bike is? I hope to here a positive response from you in a couple of days. |
Lane
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2008 - 09:44 pm: |
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I got a call this afternoon from the dealership. Basically they have found nothing. They are going to call Buell customer service tomorrow to find out if others have reported this problem and to ask for advice. They told me they did a full search of the computer and no problems reported. I'll let you know more when I get more. |
Al_lighton
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 09:32 am: |
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This surging issue has been around for years now, and many folks that have had issues with it have never made it go away completely. But many folks never have any issues with it at all. I sense a small amount of it on my 06 Uly (sold) and 08 Uly, but never enough to bother me in the slightest. But my 1125r does it a bit more. To hear some folks that have the problem, the bike is undrivable. I've never experienced that, and I've never driven someones bike that said they had the problem bad.
I recommend performing this test.
Remove the lower airbox, and re-route the O2 sensor connector over to the the hole in the frame by your right knee so that you can mate and de-mate it without having to take the whole airbox off. I always do that the first time I have the airbox cover off, because access to that connector makes debugging many problems a little easier.
Drive the bike and get it to do the normal surging. Disconnect the O2 sensor and then drive it again the same way. Ignore the red light for the moment.
If the surging goes away, then you know it is a closed loop issue. Might be a bad O2 sensor, but doubtful. I don't know of a valid cure for closed loop "hunting".
If the surging DOESN'T go away, then it is NOT a closed loop issue. Best guess is throttle plate flutter, you might be able to fix the problem by loosening the TPS screw and retightening it per the service manual procedure. One badwebber did even more than that by modifying his throttle plate slightly, and claimed success, but I don't have that thread saved.
One thing that just occurred to me..Every new Buell I've ever driven has always had WAY too much throttle cable free play..that is, when you start moving the throttle grip, it moves a fair amount before the engine RPMs begin to change. I like very little to no free play and always adjust it out. I wonder if that throttle cable free play might be a difference between bikes that do it a lot and bikes that don't? I dunno, I'm totally guessing on that. But it's worth a try, it's easy to adjust out. |
9_ford
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2008 - 10:23 pm: |
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i do know it is a closed loop surge by disconnecting the o2 however when disconnected it does not affect the intermittant pop on takeoff , i have adjusted my throttle cable to very little free play because of my personal preference with no change in surge or the intermittant "pop" , i may be too picky only because i earn a living working on fuel injection , the dealer may have my trouble found , apparently with exhaust valve does not close off when idling , i had mentioned to them the exhaust note was noticably louder when it started acting real bad , the acuator does move when the throttle is snapped but very little and the valve in the exhaust moves freely , also they had mentioned the air correction was like i was running in the alps , i live at sea level , possibly a malfunctioning exhaust valve acuator would cause this learned air correction , i makes sense to me but the proof will be when i drive it again , once the bike was underway and above 3 grand it did perform flawless but i have to stop and ride in the town not all rides are on the open road , i'll keep posting when more info is availible |
Werewulf
| | Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 12:31 pm: |
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my 08 is doing exactly the same thing...i have an appt on wed to get it checked, but i have little faith that they will find anything wrong...i had this same problem on my 06 v-rod and no help was available, until i installed a SE race tuner... my 08 runs hotter than my 03, which tells me its leaner, which i suspect is what the problem is... the 07 harleys had a similar problems on the baggers and i have one of those too.. harley had a flash for those bikes, which helped a tad.. same deal, the SE race tuner solved the problem....
i fear that the 08 buells will go down in history as problematic, due to the epa compliance ecm.. my bike has over 6k miles and gets worse with age.. |
Pammy
| | Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 01:46 pm: |
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Hey Al, I have a line on some plug and play connectors that may stop or minimize some of the surging due to the closed loop issues. We Have been using them on the Big Twins for a little while. I am testing a couple on Buells starting Monday. |
Jettdawg
| | Posted on Friday, June 06, 2008 - 05:46 pm: |
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Awesome Pammy! Keep us posted  |
Werewulf
| | Posted on Sunday, June 08, 2008 - 10:23 am: |
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ive been promoted to "surgin general"! |
Brakes2late
| | Posted on Monday, June 09, 2008 - 09:53 am: |
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My 06 did not have any noticeable stumble until I took off the stock exhaust and put on an aftermarket. It's not real bad but definitely wasn't there before the mod. Maybe a fuel map adjustment would help? I just started playing with ECM Spy so I'm not expert for sure but maybe someone who is can offer some help. |
Lane
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 10:21 pm: |
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Here's an update on my situation. Picking bike up tomorrow. Dealer talked to Buell Factory tech, they have an updated flash for ECM which they did today. Dealer says they test rode it today and all is well. We'll see tomorrow. I'll let you know. |
Werewulf
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 05:46 am: |
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had mine flashed yesterday, still runs like poop.... |
9_ford
| | Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2008 - 07:12 pm: |
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i'm picking mine up tomorrow , i waited 3 weeks for the exhaust acuator cable , the acuator itself had gone past its stop and pulled the cable apart , i have yet to ride it , as of last monday there was no ecm update for the 08 uly , i'll have to ask tomorrow if there was an update availible , the dealer knows if its not right not to call , we will see
i would like to know how pammy is making out with the plug and play |
9_ford
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 09:47 pm: |
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i finally got my bike back today , there was a program installed while i was there , i'm glad to say it has cured more than 75% of the surge backfire issues i had in stop and go traffic , it will act up cold but hot AOK , also i seen the exhaust acuator and cable , cable was apart and the acuator had gone past its stop , very pleased with it now , as per dealer the program was released less than a week ago |
Stbuell
| | Posted on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 11:20 pm: |
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Ford
When you say there was a program installed, do you mean they did something to your ecm? I'm also courious on how Lane made out with his bike. |
Lane
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 07:00 pm: |
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They did install an update to the ECM. Picked it up Thursday and it's been raining. I did get to ride it for about 30 minutes this morning and all seems well. Didn't notice any surging or popping. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I will ride it more tomorrow. |
Stbuell
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 07:23 pm: |
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Lane
Do you know if this update is available for other year bikes. |
9_ford
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 07:34 pm: |
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there was a ecm remapping for the 08 uly , i suspect it pertains to ALL 08 xb series bikes , as far as i know it does not cover any previous year models but your dealer should be able to find out , also from my understanding the dealer can now *tweak" the fuel mapping if needed , as of today with 150 kms more on it , no surge or pop in the intake at all , as long as it was warmed up , i'm extremely pleased with how my 08 is running now , even fuel milage improved by 5 mpg with no change in riding habbits |
Stbuell
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 09:04 pm: |
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Ford
I really glad you got your bike running smooth. It's has to make it even more fun to ride. |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 09:17 pm: |
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Do not know if there is something in this but here goes.
I datalogged my 07 XB12R and after running it throught the VE analyser on Megalogger it showed the bottom half of the map was WAY!!!!!! lean.
I have changed it as per the VE recommendations and it runs a hell of a lot better and a lot cooler.
I can even point and shoot at corners with out the dreaded hesitate and overshoot. |
Xl_cheese
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 09:21 am: |
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bombardier
I did some megalogging on my 04 xb12 and seemed to get poor resutls for anything under 3k.
My bike always ran worse after using megalogviewer. More specificly it was around 2400 rpm at the minimum tps to keep it a steady speed while in 2nd gear.
ie, going through a school zone.
Is your bike stock? I wonder if having the race can, filter and ecm are a factor? |
Bombardier
| | Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 08:39 pm: |
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Stock as a rock. Had the race ecm and filter installed but it ran even leaner and hotter through traffic.
Sounds like your engine temp sensor or your intake air sensor is out of range.
Here is the link for the online manual to check the specs of both yourself. |
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Surging
