| Author | Message | ||
     Slaughter |
I will miss the races but looks like our favorite hard luck privateer - Scott Jensen is top-10-ish in practice on his Superstock spec GSXR1000 in Superbike! He is pretty consistently now the top privateer in AMA... and a helluva great guy... http://www.amaproracing.com/08rr/sonoma/index-link s.html Top of page is link to live timing | ||
| Jaimec |
Sounds like Mat Mladin read the "Riot Act" to the crowd regarding DMG's proposed rules changes... | ||
| Slaughter |
Yeah.... Mladin, "WAAAAAHHHH! They're denying me my killer advantages" (from the SF Chronicle) WAAAAAHHHH! (Mladin) (Message edited by slaughter on May 20, 2008) | ||
| Benm2 |
I'm of the same opinion. What makes him so sure we all want to keep watching the Matt show? Of course his checks aren't bouncing, so he's dumb fat & happy. Others look at the empty stands and see opportunity. Clearly racing in the US CAN attract fans as NASCAR has shown. Why wouldn't he want to be a part of that scene? Does he think his pay would go DOWN if the stands were filled with spectators? | ||
| Jaimec |
I don't think he wants to ride a "crippled" motorcycle. | ||
| Benm2 |
Then let him get a ride in World Superbike, or MotoGP. He's winning, he's happy. He is addressing the "fans" in his little speeches, but I haven't watched an AMA race in years. WSB and MotoGP are more interesting. The fans will vote with their wallets. Will people rather watch the Mladin/Spies domination-parades on "fire breathing 200 hp superbikes" or will they want to watch closer inter-brand racing on more evenly matched machines? What's more exciting: a 250GP race or an AMA Superbike race? Are the 250's "crippled"? | ||
| Mcgiver |
"crippled"?? | ||
| Smoke |
do mat and ben have the fastest bikes or are they the 2 best riders in the series? aaron yates and tommy hayden have had similar opportunity with the same team and have managed 3rd place finishes and i think aaron had some 2nd's with yoshimura. the other manufacturer's are welcome to up their game and both ducati and recently yamaha have gotten close. as i understand, the rules were to allow 1200 twins in superbike next year. right now the support classes have had quite a bit of close racing at the front in FX, supersport and superstock but the attendance is similar to last year. to me that doesn't show that close racing brings attendance. marketing, hype, exposure and consistent television coverage is what it will take to bring fans to the track along with the promotion of the personalities of the riders and teams. Nascar drove me away and i rarely watch more than a couple of laps or catch highlights on cnn. the real issue to me has to deal with the numbers: how many registered cars and trucks vs how many registered motorcycles and that is the core audience market. my .02c. i like the current class structure, especially since the red bull rookies are part of the show. tim | ||
| Slaughter |
It is not the RULES that so many have objected to over the years but the CONTRACTS between vendors and the TEAMS that PREVENT those things like tires, engine and suspension and fuels from being sold to OTHER teams. When Yates rode for Yosh/Suzuki, he could get tires, fuel, engine and suspension that NO OTHER TEAM could get. Read Jordan's statements about how it is impossible to get those things REGARDLESS of how much money you have. | ||
| 46champ |
You don't think that Mladin is going to use the rules changes to make his retirement official do you. | ||
| Slaughter |
Mladin has had a reputation as a whiner as long as I've been paying attention. Sometimes he's been dead right - as in the case of the speeds at Daytona... but then everybody beyotched about FX becoming the primary class for the Daytona 200... If the re-defining of AMA classes pisses him off, I have two words: OH WELL. | ||
| Slaughter |
David Koenig - announcer at Willow Springs does most of the AMA West announcing and at Sears Point, he did the interview with Colin Fraser (AMA & Canadian SBK comp director). and it was that interview that got Mladin's knickers in a twist. He saved the audio links for their historical (or was it hysterical) value. David K's post in link includes the links to the audio: http://www.ducatitech.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=7833 | ||
| Trojan |
Mladin has had a reputation as a whiner as long as I've been paying attention. He does, but on this occasion he is not alone in voicing his concerns over the DMG plans. Both Neil Hodgson and Chaz davies have said that they will not race in the US series (contract permitting) if the classes are castrated in the way that DMG propose. Other high profile riders that have spoken out against the proposals are Colin Edwards & Nicky Hayden. Colin has even changed tack for next year and is more comitted than ever to staying in MotoGP rather than continue his previous plan of finishing his career in AMA Superbikes. If you want to watch close racing with riders nobody has heard of on bikes that are nowehere near 'proper' Superbike spec you can do that now at pretty much any club meeting on any weekend throughout the year. Why do DMG think that the same formula will work for them any better? DMG are not alone in wanting to ruin the sport though.......Dorna has announced plans to replace 250GP bikes with STOCK engined 600/650 IL4 bikes in prototype chassis from 2011. Aprilia & KTM (the largest suppliers of race bikes in the 250 class)have already said that they will not race in the series if the rules are imposed, and the only factory in favour are (surprise surprise) Honda. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
I think the fact the Colin is actually competitive has more to do with him wanting to stay in MotoGP. Trojan, you no understand to good, do you. The way the AMA is set up right now, it is a dying series. I know I couldn't give 2 shits less about it. BORING is the key word. No fans equals no $$$$$?! I think DGM is trying to change that. Only time will tell if it works. If a few riders get pissed and leave, oh frickin' well for them. There is plenty of up and coming talent that will fill their spots nicely. Lot's of people can talk the talk. We'll see if some riders and teams have the balls to back it up. Mladin retires? Who cares. He's boring to watch anyways! I haven't watched an AMA race in about 5 years! I will be pitting for James Gang racing for the upcoming Moto-ST race run the same weekend as the AMA series at Road America. I have no intentions of watching the AMA races. | ||
| Al_lighton |
AMA SUPERBIKE racing is getting pretty old, watching the Mat and Ben show week after week. Heck, I wouldn't mind even if they won every week, IF the others were at least somewhere near them when they crossed the line. But Jeez, they're lapping the field at 10th place or so, and third place is usually 20 seconds or more down. That just ain't right. But I wouldn't say the rest of AMA racing isn't boring at all. The racing in Supersport, formula extreme, and superstock is usually pretty decent racing week to week. Although it sure looks like Ben Bostrom has his mojo back in supersport, he's totally kicking butt there this year. But If all you watch racing for is who comes in first, well, racing will likely be boring no matter what rules are changed. | ||
| Trojan |
AMA SUPERBIKE racing is getting pretty old, watching the Mat and Ben show week after week. Unfortunately that isn't the fault of either Mladin or Spies. As Mick Doohan used to say when he was criticised for winning too easily, 'What do you want me to do, slow down?'. However, throwing the baby out with the bathwater and changing the rules in order to make other teams competitive really doesn't work, and has been tried in numerous occasuions worldwide. What happens is that the cream very quickly rises to the top of the new series, with the same top teams/riders dominating the racing just the same. You only have to look at MotoGP to see that attempts to make a series cheaper and slower most oftem backfire on the organisers once the engineers get involved. The British Superbike series adopted 'Superstock' engine rules this year in an attempt to cut costs and make the racing closer. One of the main rule changes was that only stock con rods and pistons can be used, rather than the unobtanium titanium parts used by the 'factory' teams in the past. Just 4 races into the championship and it is very clear that: a. The top teams have just as much power as last year. b. Racing is now even more expensive as con rods are changed EVERY RACE rather than after 1000km or so. Thi sactually widens the gap between the rich 'Have' teams and the poor 'have not' privateers and non factory supported outfits. c. Big accidents are now far more common due to engine failures, with two major accidents already this season, putting riders in more danger than before. There is now a general clamour from team bosses to relax the rules on safety and cost grounds, exactly teh reasons given for changing them in the fist place. By the way, the new rules have not made the racing any better to watch, nor any closer or any cheaper, and the same top teams are still dominating the series. The only way to make teams more competitive with each other is to police the current rules properly and ensure that everyone is playing fair, or to re-introduce the good old 'claiming' rule that used to keep everyone honest in the old days of the AMA. I remember when John Cooper's works BSA Rocket 3 was 'claimed' by a US rider after John won the Ontario 200, much to the alarm and consternation of the BSA/Triumph race management at the time. There was some pretty frantic removal of 'factory' parts before the bike was handed over to the new happy owner! Make a rule that says that anyone can buy the winning bike for US$50,000 and the factory teams will soon toe the line and the playing field will be a bit more level for everyone. I think the fact the Colin is actually competitive has more to do with him wanting to stay in MotoGP. Trojan, you no understand to good, do you. Colin had already dismissed the new AMA rules before he found his new lease of life and got back to being competitive in MotoGP. He has now started to talk with Kawasaki apparently, although to be honest that would be a major backward step from where he is now. | ||
| Slaughter |
It frustrates me that AMA still has a claiming rule that is virtually NEVER used. I have a hard time understanding why not - though when it was recently used in the case of the Erion Honda a couple seasons back, the claiming rider couldn't get a whole lot of support from Erion. I have always thought that a claiming rule that was actually USED would do more to keep things real than any other factor. Too lazy to look but AMA lists the claiming rule dollar breakdown in a part-by-part list for suspension, fuel injection/controls, whole engine, cams, chassis and all the way up to full motorcycle. I'd like to see more claiming going on. | ||
| Davegess |
I agree with the claiming deal. I think that would be a real interesting way to go. I suspect that nobody uses it now because the factories would cut you off at the knees for any future support if you did it | ||
| Blake |
Team Jordan should absolutely do it. When a claim is made, AMA officials need to immediately impound the bike before the team is ever even notified of the claim. That would put an end to nefarious removal of factory parts. Ben and Matt are indeed fast, but I don't think they are that much faster than E-Boz, Duhamel, and Hodgeson or even Jaime Hacking, not like the lap times indicate. Suzuki has definitely found something that the other teams haven't, and they've done a superb job of hiding it. It is strange since the WSBK series is so much more closely contested. In the end, the best riders and teams will go to where the best money is. If DMG can elevate AMA Roadracing to a big money series with big network television coverage, the rest will follow. Right now, it's a joke. Consider that just for making the grid a racer in the Indianapolis 500 garners a $250K award. If the Daytona 200 had half that kind of enticement, you see a lot more top racers seriously fighting to make the grid. | ||
| Slaughter |
... continuing ... after a brain fart... Claiming would NOT help with unobtanium tires or fuels. | ||
| Blake |
Oh, yeah. Tires are half the battle. They are allowed to work the fuel too? I did not know that. | ||
| Slaughter |
I remember last year the people complaining that they couldn't even be in the Fontana garage when there was a fuel splash. We're talking WAY nastier than U4. Ugly stuff. | ||
| Trojan |
Ben and Matt are indeed fast, but I don't think they are that much faster than E-Boz, Duhamel, and Hodgeson or even Jaime Hacking, not like the lap times indicate. Suzuki has definitely found something that the other teams haven't, and they've done a superb job of hiding it. It is strange since the WSBK series is so much more closely contested. There was an interesting article in one fo the UK monthlies about Yoshimura & Suzuki in AMA racing. The biggest diference between the Yoshi US team and the WSB teams is that Yoshi has a direct influence at the Suzuki factory on what is developed for Superbike racing. The WSB teams have to race what they get given. Yoshimura has even played a part in the development of the next generation GSXR1000, making sure that it fits exactly to the AMA regs, and which explains why they can dominate so much in AMA but be in the chasing group in WSB. None of the other teams in AMA racing(even Honda) have that much influence on the design and development of new bikes, or gets as much assistance from the factory as the Yoshimura Suzuki. Back when HRC directly ran the AMA Honda team and had influence at teh factoryI DuHamel/Hayden were winning every week. | ||
| Diablobrian |
It is widely known that there are parts Mat and Ben have that cannot be purchased. Michael Jordan has been very vocal about how frustrating it is to not be able to buy the parts that will make his machines competitive. It is really sad that they can't use the claiming rule because of reprisals and lack of future support from the factory if they do. |
