| Author | Message | ||
     Buelliedan |
EZ, PM your e-mail to me and I will send you some pics. I don't want to post pics and get Blake in a tizzy. If you want to post them that would be your perogative. send email to: sales@nrhsperformance.com | ||
| Ezblast |
Done! | ||
| Blake |
"a liner that is over 1/4 inch thicker than any other cylinder out there." The state of the art aerospace quality all-aluminum alloy cylinders don't need liners. A thicker iron liner would seem to be a crude way of gaining strength while sacrificing optimum cooling and of course adding weight. | ||
| Blake |
Might as well go for an all iron cylinder from axtell if that is what you are after. They work amazingly well on drag bikes and the like. Not optimum for the street in my view. Kinda heavy. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Blake, Blake, Blake, You know if you had given half as much effort to fix Arts problems with his Millenium cylinders as you do to defend their deficiencies you probably still would have NRHS as a sponsor. | ||
| Ezblast |
Off topic - please stay on topic. EZ | ||
| Blake |
BadWeB cannot accept sponsorship at any level from those who engage in hostile/malicious business practices including publicly maligning their competition. BadWeB is no fifedom for any sponsor. If any sponsor expects me or any other custodian to join them in a malicious campaign aimed at smearing their competition, they will be sorely disappointed. Good thoughtful people see through such petty miserableness and understand that it reflects entirely upon the source rather than the target. All of our sponsors offer their products and/or services based solely on their merits, which are many. This works extremely well as most all of them are much too busy to engage in miserable internet chatter such as this, not that they would do so in any case. They have way too much integrity and class for that. | ||
| Buelliedan |
You are such a funny guy Blake! Have fun in your delusional life! | ||
| Ezblast |
Both of you are off topic - please stay on topic - the topic being the quality of one type of cylinder vs another, usages, pros and cons. EZ | ||
| Ezblast |
  VS   No shot to either vendor, however, the top cylinder looks like a much better choice quality wise just from the visual - if your on a hard budget and don't get on it too often, then the bottom probably would be a good pick for the money, however, quality shows and the few pennies extra for the top is definitely worth it, especially considering the lifetime warranty. EZ | ||
| Buelliedan |
EZ, I was trying to do that but as you can see Blake is determined to put down my product at any chance he can get. I don't need his BS in my life just like I do not need to sponsor Badweb to run my business. (Message edited by buelliedan on May 14, 2008) | ||
| Ezblast |
You know - if both of you would just stick to facts, then neither would have a basis to argue with the other - facts are their own argument, just as the pictures above. EZ (Message edited by ezblast on May 14, 2008) | ||
| Fast1075 |
Personally, I like the comfort of a nice thick iron liner....but I may have snorted way too much nitrous!!!  And until I bought my P3...it has been years since I have ran an engine long enough at a time to worry much about heat transfer. They cool off pretty good on the strap behind the pit bike! I actually have an engine with nikasil cylinders...it's my trusty old Merc 200 on my bass boat!...it's like the farmers best axe...it's only had 4 handles and two heads...  Ran good enuff to make my ears flap together last time I ran it...alas at nearly $4.00 A GALLON...I'm fishin' from my all electric powered Jon boat.!!! | ||
| Styxnpicks |
the question isn't what looks better... its which one will hold up... specially to my drive it like I stole it high rpm riding style | ||
| Ezblast |
That would be the Nicksil - it isn't a matter of looks, but heat dispensation and durability - EZ | ||
| Buelliedan |
EZ, You are very wrong if you believe Nikasils will outlast iron lined cylinders. Please show us some facts to back up that claim as in my experience that is very false. Remember I sell Nikasil cylinders so I have seen both sides here. Why do you think most drag racers run iron cylinders? Why does Axtell prefer iron cylinders? Axtell sells Nikasil remember but they still prefer iron. WHY??? Why if Nikasil is so superior does S&S not offer Nikasil? You were the one who asked for facts, now I am asking you to back up your claim. In our experience with Nikasils they just have not proven to be the product people thought they would be. We believe it has to do with the extreme heat ranges air cooled cylinders see. On a water cooled engine 190 degrees is usually the highest they see. Nikasil is great in watercooled engines but they are very heat sensitive. So much so that the plating often bubbles during powder coating if they are baked at anything more than 300 degrees. Would you like to see our pile of bad Nikasil cylinders that were returned due to plating issues? So I am challenging you to back up your claim that Nikasil are more durable. What facts do you have that says so? (Message edited by buelliedan on May 15, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
Says the man trying to malign his competition and sell his iron lined Chinese cylinders. Your high temperature claim is baloney. Making up theories to malign your competition is poor form. Proof? Facts? I've had my nickel-silicon-carbide plated cylinders to the race track for well over 1000 miles of VERY aggressive exercise on some very hot Texas Summer days where the cylinder temperatures exceeded 300oF according to my IR thermometer. After tens of thousands of miles and seven years, they still work great. Power is excellent, oil use is low, compression and leakdown are near ideal. Good enough for me. More facts? The Buell XBRR has won endurance races against the best Japanese IL4 literbikes. All XBRRs are delivered with all-aluminum cylinders with nickel-silicon-carbide plating by Millennium Technologies/Revolution Performance. Drag racers aren't much concerned with keeping their engines cool. They simply shut them down after a quarter mile of hard acceleration. Road racers face a much more rigorous challenge when it comes to engine cooling and high engine temperatures. (Message edited by Blake on May 15, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
A lifetime warranty is kinda tough to argue against. | ||
| Ezblast |
Hardness factor is my first proof, better heat dispensation, durability - that is what I've been told by other motor builders. Racers run iron because it is less expensive, and because they know they may be changing them as often as as many runs as they do down the strip - that can be up to 10 times in a day, that adds up in money quick - lol - and S&S is a wild group of folks whose rep has always been fast and loose - so I've always taken their stuff with a grain of salt. Baker and others of rock solid reps have been using Nikasil sucessfully for a while, and Buell's racing bike also used them for a durability issue solved - Merc and others have also relied on them. EZ | ||
| Blake |
Buelliedan, What do you want for your "pile of bad Nikasil cylinders that were returned due to plating issues"? If they are otherwise in good shape, I'll happily give you $10 a piece plus actual shipping via UPS ground. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Blake, As usual you resort to calling me a liar even though you have no facts to back up your claims. As for racing Buells. Yes they do run Nikasils but they also change them after almost every race. Wow you have a whole 1000 miles on your cylinders!! That is so much! When is the last time you even went to a trackday? Like I said nobody has to take my word for it. Go ahead and call GMR and ask him his opinion as well. This is my competition also. But I know you don't want to know the real truth Blake. Just want to try to put down Aaron and myself whenever you can. Most folks here are smart enough to see right through your BS. Just ask yourself why NRHS left as a sponsor folks. | ||
| Blake |
Iron sleeved or all-iron cylinders also allow the drag racers to rebore and/or rehone pretty much at will locally. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Blake, They are not in good shape. the plating is no good!! that is why they were returned. DOH!!! | ||
| Ezblast |
Dan - I have over 15,000 miles on mine and anyone in the SFMC will tell you I don't baby my bike, and Blake did not call you a liar, but made an offer to buy all those cylinders you say you had - sounds like profit to me. No one is putting anyone down - you sell Nikasil yourself - so there must be a demand. Please stay on topic. EZ | ||
| Blake |
Buelliedan, Repeating: What do you want for your "pile of bad Nikasil cylinders that were returned due to plating issues"? If they are otherwise in good shape (meaning that except for the bad plating they are in good working condition), I'll happily give you $10 a piece plus actual shipping via UPS ground. | ||
| Blake |
"Wow you have a whole 1000 miles on your cylinders!!" You no read good. | ||
| Blake |
Dan, "But I know you don't want to know the real truth Blake. Just want to try to put down Aaron and myself whenever you can." You are mistaken, and once again off topic. I'm not the one doing the "putting down" here. | ||
| Sarodude |
I don't really want to pour gasoline on any fires here, BUT you folks should know that Dan has a Blast jug of mine with some really cute nikasil plating failure. I concede that, more than likely, a confluence of conditions made that happen (SUPER green rider not paying attention to motor screaming for attention, 110F ambient temps, long uphill freeway climb, knee squeezing against unsupported Pro Series intake likely causing lean condition). Look here. I wanted to contribute something useful to this conversation. -Saro | ||
| Blake |
Per Mr. Ron Dickey of Axtell:
| ||
| Blake |
Saro, Without knowing the root cause of your engine failure I'm afraid that you are indeed muddying the issue. For instance, I know of one BadWeBr who suffered identical repeated engine failures, piston seized in cylinder, running all-iron cylinders. Engine failures are not limited to one or the other type of cylinders. Here's how I see it: If I were in the market for a new set of cylinders for any Buell motorcycle, I'd be going with a nice new set of Revolution Performance cylinders with their lifetime warranty. They are by far the best bang for the buck. Buelliedan, As for racing Buells. Yes they do run Nikasils but they also change them after almost every race." Why would the heck would they do that when they could run iron or iron-lined cylinders which you are contending are better? Please explain. I have a number of races on the same set of nickel-silicon-carbide plated cylinders plus countless track days and tens of thousands of miles of street riding. I know other Buell racers who don't change their cylinders as you would like to characterize. In fact the only racing Buell's that I know of that routinely swapped their nickel-silicon-carbide plated cylinders were the folks (Hal's and Tilley's H-D/Buell) racing the old AMA Pro-Thunder series and pre-XBRR FX series. The leading Hondas and Yamahas in AMA Formula Xtreme also swap their cylinders on a regular basis. Regardless, such is racing where to be competitive, engines are stressed to their limits and thus require far more attention compared to their street going cousins. Thus it is a red herring to use what amounts to good professional race practice to try to bolster your opinion wrt street bike applications. |
