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Chevycummins
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 06:02 pm: | 
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C4bird, my bike set the 0193 high fuel pressure code under the same conditions as yours. The fuel was boiling very intense when I restarted the bike and the eng light was on and was running rough. I think the fuel was starting to boil in the fuel line and that was why the fuel pressure sensor saw high fuel pressure. Like leaving a fuel can out in the sun with the vent closed. It will build up pressure. |
Sycojomo
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 08:07 pm: |
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I want to agree with Court that the fuel may not be boiling. What I do know is that my fuel level was at least one inch below the lower portion of the filling port, it was bubbling vigorously, and it was running out the overflow tube onto the exhaust in little bursts. The air temperature was in the upper 70s or low 80s and I was in stop and go traffic for about 15 minutes. |
Chevycummins
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 09:34 pm: |
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Boiling or bubbling?
Boiling, is the rapid vaporization of a liquid, which typically occurs when a liquid is heated to its boiling point, the temperature at which the vapor pressure of the liquid is equal to the pressure exerted on the liquid by the surrounding environmental pressure. Thus, a liquid may also boil when the pressure of the surrounding atmosphere is sufficiently reduced, such as the use of a vacuum pump or at high altitudes. Boiling occurs in three characteristic stages, which are nucleate, transition and film boiling. These stages generally take place from low to high surface temperatures, respectively.
Bubble, is a globule of one substance in another, usually air in a liquid.
My bike was boiling because the gas that was hissing from the tank vent hose smelled like gas, not air or anything else.
If I remember right, it seems that most people that had lots of pressure when removing the gas cap when hot were the Cali bikes. And I think these people generally did not have the boiling gas, just lots of pressure. If the pressure is that great in their tanks it will raise the boiling point and they may not boil the gas. My bike never had lots of pressure when I take the cap off even hot but it did boil and smell. The Cali bikes with the charcoal canister sounds like they create pressure in the tank and that would make them harder to boil the gas.
My bike is not a Cali bike. No emissions. Just a vent hose.
Nuclear boiling is characterized by the incipience and growth of bubbles on a heated surface, which rise from discrete points on a surface, whose temperature is only slightly above the liquid's saturation temperature. In general, the number of nucleation sites are increased by an increasing surface temperature. An irregular surface of the boiling vessel(i.e. increased surface roughness) can create additional nucleation sites, while an exceptionally smooth surface, such as glass, lends itself to superheating.
The rough casting of the bottom of the fuel tank frame assembly may also help cause problems with gas boiling. Also some castings may be smoother than others due to different casts. The inside of my tank looks very rough. Some casts may be better than others. The smooth casts, if any, would be harder to boil the gas in.
I would like to know if you have boiling gas in a Cali bike, or just the non emissions bikes. The pressure difference may play a big part in it. |
Sycojomo
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 11:33 pm: |
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"Nuclear boiling is characterized by the incipience and growth of bubbles on a heated surface, which rise from discrete points on a surface, whose temperature is only slightly above the liquid's saturation temperature."
The bike was at rest and had been for enough time that the surface of the gasoline could not have been disturbed by any outside motion. After removing the gas cap, I observed that the surface of the gasoline looked identical to a pot of boiling water and made a similar sound. I did not notice a significant amount of pressure against the cap.
Once my throttle lag issue is resolved, I'm going to talk with the guys and see if the dealership will do anything. Otherwise I'll probably try some type of heat shield on the inside of the frame. |
Chevycummins
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 11:53 pm: |
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Sycojomo, I also had noticed that my bike after sitting for about 5 min would start to boil more intense. I think that with no air movement through the engine area it will actually heat soak the frame, tank and the gas temp will go up slightly. When shut off the temp of the engine will also go up. Is your bike an emissions bike? |
C4bird
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 12:28 am: |
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I haven't looked in the tank during boiling, but I can feel it when I touch the tank, hear it at the tank, and hear it at the vent hose. Not an in general hear and feel on the tank, but specific, to just next to and above the rear cylinder header. Sounds just like water on the stove  My bike is non-cali, and the boiling was at it's greatest within a couple minutes of shutoff. |
Hayabusa
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 07:46 am: |
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I also have been using Shell 93...and it loves to boil! I have gone to Sunoco for this tank...I will see how it goes. I am planning on putting cool tape on the inside of the frame to help with my boiling issues. |
C4bird
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 10:09 am: |
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Interesting... Let us know if it changes  |
Chevycummins
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 02:45 pm: |
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Hayabusa, I went to a Sunoco last night and found there pumps around here are all one hose pumps. Checked all the pumps and none of them had just pumped premium so I did not fill up. Cheap michigan people! Is your bike a non emissions bike also? |
Hayabusa
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 07:42 am: |
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I am pretty sure that it isn't a Cali bike. I went out yesterday and got the bike fairly warm and didn't have any boiling...but it was only in the 70's yesterday. I am waiting for a 85 degree day and some traffic to announce that Shell 93 boils at a lower temp than other fuels. The only downside is that Sunoco costs about 7 cents more a gallon. |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 08:55 am: |
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Easy enough to tell if it's a Cali bike.
8th character in the VIN will be a C for Cali, D for domestic 49er.
Also you can lift the outer airbox, if there's a rubber hose running down the middle, in the groove, going to a carbon canister under the seat, it's Cali.
Z |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 09:13 pm: |
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Post insulation update...
We removed and fully wrapped (with 1" wide design engineering exhaust wrap) the entire length of both primary tubes...all the way from the port flanges to the factory muffler entry...yes, both, front and rear cylinder primaries.
For a little better weather sealing and looks, the same company's silicone black spray was applied in heavy dosage prior to installation.
Word to the do it your self er...this job is a test to your patience levels. Do not do this in front of children as YOU will curse! The front cylinder is the easy one...do it last!
No frame/fuel cell insulation was applied at this as this was already becoming a time/cost/test concern.
Upon the first 20 minutes of running...there was more smoke (due to the first heat cycle burning off of the spray) and stink around this 11 than I hope any one ever witnesses! It does finally stop smoking though.
One hour test results are very very positive in simple hand job feeling. The ambients down here dropped a little with a front that just came through so I'm a little reluctant to post facts on hard numbers just yet...but will once weather allows.
I can state this...all aspects of riding are cooler. All areas concerned with in and around the entire frame/fuel cell are noticably cooler.
The ambient inlet temp sensor readings are within an average of 12'F with actual ambient temps...this even after many minutes of sitting still and at idle and after 30 minutes of riding, light to light! That is a huge difference from pre insulation!
The coolant temps are also reduced but again, I want to be sure of a fair back to back comparison when the temps are at or near 88-90'F before going much further.
I will post finals asap, Montgomery Markel |
Dre99gsx
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 01:27 pm: |
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You know you *should* provide us some tips on removing the rear header  |
Chevycummins
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 02:42 pm: |
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Dre99gsx, my tip on removing the rear header is, take your time. If your not a patient person get someone to do it that is. |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 06:44 pm: |
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I don't believe I am the one who should be giving instruction on general Buell Tech procedure...that would be related to the service manual. |
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