| Author | Message | ||
     Chadhargis |
I'm just waiting patiently for the 1125 Ulysses. I ride my Buell mostly on the street. I have a track bike. I'm looking for something that is more street oriented. Something that is comfortable, relatively light weight, and has a sweet engine. Sounds to me like the 1125 engine would be the perfect match for a Ulysses type bike to do battle with the Multistrada, Tiger, and V-Strom. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Smoke, how much are you going to spend on chains and sprockets over the life of the bike. I bet you go through $1000 in chains and sprockets by the time you kill one $250 belt. Then, go out to the parking lot and kick an 1125R over on its side, then go kick an 848 or 1098 over on it's side, and get an estimate to repair both back to factory condition. Not a slam, I think either bike is a great purchase depending on your goals. But a the Buell is $1000 cheaper out the door, and every mile you ride it makes it even cheaper. | ||
| Smokescreen |
But a the Buell is $1000 cheaper out the door, and every mile you ride it makes it even cheaper. Exactly, you get what you pay for. I don't find value in trying to cut cost to make a bike more appealing. I'll shell out the extra for what's proven. To each his own.  Now, let's go ride! Smokescreen | ||
| Jpfive |
My issue came yesterday. I thought the article was fair. Actually, more than fair. I think they went out of their way to highlight the good of the bike, when they could have used the experience with their _four_ bikes to really assassinate the reputation of Buell and the public perception of the bike. What came through to me was that they genuinely liked the bike, and bent over backwards to put the teething problems of a new issue in proper perspective. Buell has made a remarkable leap with the 11, and they emphasized this fact in a responsible, journalistic way. Buell has moved into the mainstream, folks, and those of us who have voted with our wallets (and hearts) are on the cusp with them. I think the article tried to make the same point, but without glossing over issues that couldn't be ignored. Bottom line - the article has affected my enjoyment of this bike not a whit, and I would buy the bike again today. FWIW, I couldn't help but notice that the test bike was a California bike - a 49 state version might have worked better for them. Jack | ||
| Benm2 |
I spit up coffee at that one! I'm sure that Buell will address the issues, but my trips to the dealer for Buell part / issues have never been "easy". Chromed tasselled "phat" handgrips? Yep, got those in spades... | ||
| Reepicheep |
OK, then:
 | ||
| Bikerjim99 |
One of the benefits of buying a Buell is the company behind the bike. I have been treated well on every occasion that I have dealt with Buell. I own one of the 1999 S3's that also had less than perfect test write ups by cycle magazines. Buell was right on top of the teething problems, and fixed all issues. I've owned BMW, Honda and others from new, and had problems, some serious, that the factory never acknowledged were there. You may not appreciate Buell until you own another make. They are not perfect, but in my opinion, with almost 40 years of riding experience, they are the best. | ||
| Stealthxb |
I have had the opportunity to ride both machines. The 1125r was on a demo ride in the N. Georgia mountains. The 848 was on a local lunch break romp. I got to ride both bikes in an environment I am comfortable in. I was extremely impressed with both machines. The 1125r is all that it is cracked up to be. It felt like an extension of the rider and responded to input without hesitation or negative feedback. The 848 is brilliant too. Though believe it or not, it feels much less refined. It is unsettled at low RRMs. The seating position was difficult to get accustomed to. Engine heat was obvious. The brakes were the most responsive I have ever used. Thus, braking was not extremely smooth for me. The Duc turns corners like a dream. It was the most effortless bike to turn I have ridden to date. I think I could find a place in the garage for the 1125r. It is a multi-use machine that would be easier to justify financially. The 848 is ill suited for the majority of my riding. It would be marvelous on the track, but around town it just would not do. | ||
| Doerman |
Great write up there, Reverend! I think that about sums it up! And yours, CW 1125R gremlins notwithstanding, is pretty much in line with the mag. Interesting that your conclusions regarding the front bakes are opposite to CW based on the same facts. Maybe tells us that the CW writers were too much track oriented in their assessment. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Great review, thanks. | ||
| Jimidan |
I know I had this uneasy feeling of deja vu all over again when I read the article...I thought I was back in the '90's with that horrible S3 piece. I am sure that this article was like a Rev. Wright moment for Buell...it is exactly what they did not need at this point in time. Now we have to wait and see how they handle the matter...damage control, take me away. The fact that the magazine (this is Cycle World not Motorcyclist, there CombatM1, although since you read neither, you would not know the difference) chose to compare the 1125 to a bike with 15 less HP and 11 ft/lbs less torque is no mystery. Why compare the Buell to a Ducati 1098 with 25 something more HP or an 1148 cc RC8 KTM with the same power advantage, when the 848 was faster in one of the tester's hands? What do you want, a bloodbath? Nope, they had the right bike for the comparo. Cycle World was kind by not making those direct comparisons with the more powerful and much more expensive bikes? It just looks like Erik, you got some "splaining to do" about the inexcusable problems of the test bikes. These were the same ones that had not been adequately addressed since the press rode the "prototype" bikes, even after Buell promised that they would be. Shame on them since many folks put down their down payments trusting that Buell would have fixed these problems on their new bike before they picked it up. Keep in mind though that Buell chose NOT to build the 1125 in a direct comparison class with the big Duc or RC8, or anything else for that matter. But the press will be the press and do it for them anyway. That is just like those pesky reporters. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Jimidan: Well written on many fronts. | ||
| Spike |
First things first- *Four* test bikes with failures is pure suck on Buell's part. No excuses. It almost sounds like the test fleet bikes run worse than the pre-production models that toured the Inside Pass "circuit" last year. Having said that, I don't see what the fuss is about it being compared to the 848 on the track. Aside from the 848 being more expensive, the 848 is clearly the more focused bike. I expect it to lap a race track as fast if not faster than bikes with more power. If they said the 848 was a better street bike I might be concerned. Finding out that the 848 can rip around a track isn't much of a shock. On top of that, I don't buy that the extra power of the 1098 equates to a quicker lap time, let alone a bloodbath. In May of '07 Motorcyclist did a track test comparison between a 1098S and a 999S with Doug Poland as the test rider. The 1098S boasted a ~15hp power advantage and a 20+lb weight advantage. Based on the logic used here we should have seen a bloodbath, but that wasn't the case. Despite spending more of the day aboard the 1098S, Poland was able to go a full second quicker on the 999S. | ||
| Jpfive |
Good point, Spike. Thanks! | ||
| Anonymous |
The track that Cycle World used was the only Willow Springs circuit available during the time they had scheduled -- Horseshoe Mile. It's the third and smallest track at Willow, designed most to support its advertising photo shoot business. It's tight and, especially compared to the Willow Springs main track, it favors smaller bikes. No excuses, but an 848 is likely faster than a 1098 on this track. | ||
| Cobralightning |
May just be my bias interpretation of the article, but I see it as the 1125R is better for anyone who is not a pro racer. And the 848 works best if you are a pro. And everyone will do better on the street and the track outside of the pros. As far as everyday driving the 1125 wins out. Which is where 95% of the drivers will have the bikes. With the new computer map out the surging issue the magazine had should be resolved. | ||
| Elvis |
They've got the dyno chart up online now: http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=3 &article_id=693  When I first read the article, my take was that it was fair, but I just read the article again, and looked at that Dyno Chart (which was conveniently left out of the review), and I'm starting to really get annoyed with what they did. It's really frustrating that they tested the 848, because they make comments in the article like (I don't remember the exact quote): "The Buell has much better mid-range than the Ducati, but that's like cheating because the Buell has 30% more displacement." What kind of journalism is that? If you're going to compare two bikes, compare them. Don't discount the advantages of one because . . . it has an advantage. Couldn't one argue that the Ducati is "cheating" by using components that have been around for 10 years and have been refined and sorted and couldn't one argue that the Ducati is "cheating" by offering a bike for comparison that costs $1500 more? Looking at it from a broad perspective, the big problem is Buell shot themselves in the foot by not offering a more sorted test bike . . . but the comparison was highly flawed in that it compared a much more powerful Buell to a less powerful Ducati . . . but then didn't give credit to Buell for providing greater power, better acceleration and much better mid-range at a lower cost becaus it was "cheating". . . . and when the Buell got around the track quicker than the Ducati "track-bike" that also didn't count because, after all, the Buell "cheats". | ||
| Spike |
I knew ~120rwhp out of an ~850cc twin was quite a feat, and that dyno chart is proof that there is no free lunch, even for Ducati. Look at that midrange hole. From 4k-6k rpm it appears the $13,500 Ducati superbike is outpowered by a 2003 XB9R. | ||
| Elvis |
I'm not big on conspiracy theories, and when some have accused Cycle World of bias, I've felt they were being overly sensitive. . . . but is there any logical explanation for why they left that Dyno chart out of the article? They had the chart, they mentioned the chart in the article, but they didn't print it. You have to wonder if they didn't print it because it makes the Buell look better than their "winner". | ||
| Brad1445 |
$13,500 Ducati superbike is outpowered by a 2003 XB9R.  | ||
| Mingo |
So,how about everybody email Sportrider Magazine and ask them to do a real no holds barred street and track shootout of the 1125 vs the standard 1098.Do you think BMC will go for it? | ||
| Ccryder |
Does a "standard" 1098 even exist ?????? LOL | ||
| Mingo |
It certainly does. | ||
| Dentguy |
It's really frustrating that they tested the 848, because they make comments in the article like (I don't remember the exact quote): "The Buell has much better mid-range than the Ducati, but that's like cheating because the Buell has 30% more displacement." The exact quote was "The 1125R showed promise during runs up and down twisty Mt. Palomar Road, one of our local test venues. It's midrange power advantage almost felt like cheating (hey, it does have a nearly 30 percent displacement advantage) when driving out of uphill corners; gear selection was not a concern." I would take that as a compliment. Pulling hard out of turns and not having to worry about gear selection. For those who keep asking why these bikes were compared. Go back and read the beginning of the article. It says that they (both bikes) thumb their noses at established engine displacement classes and they felt that was a common thread. They also felt that they represent a comparable match up in terms of outright performance. Why was the dyno chart not in the article? Maybe no room? More advertising money? There are 3 full page ads mixed in with the story that bring in way more money than a dyno chart. I don't know, but I don't think they were trying to hide anything. They pointed out that the Ducati had a lull from 4000 to 6000 rpm and didn't try to hide the fact that the Buell made more torque and horsepower. The same stuff the dyno chart shows. The Buell just bit itself in the ass with it's unresolved issues. Maybe some are just sore losers. | ||
| Brad1445 |
Thanks Dentguy for bringing us back to earth with facts. I'm not sure why or how people expect one single bike to be perfect everywhere and for everything. Every bike is a compromise of give and take in some way or another. I don't think there are any bad bikes built at all, just different bikes with different purposes. | ||
| Jpfive |
I like the dyno chart the 1125 put down. This pretty much confirms my 'seat' dyno, and I am not having the rideability problems that they experienced in the test - even without the reflash. I was expecting real world dyno numbers mid 120's up to low 130's, so I'm not disappointed. I will put mine on Wheeler's dyno, in Robbinsville, NC, during my trip to Deal's Gap next week. His dyno comes in consistently low, but this will be the fourth bike I have had on it - so the relative numbers should have merit. Since there is some elevation change involved, I will be looking at how the BARO compensates also. Will post up on my return. Jack | ||
| Chadhargis |
Couldn't it also be said that Ducati is "cheating" by using Desmo valvetrain while the 1125 uses valve springs? | ||
| Anonymous |
Cycle World, because of the busy rental schedule at Willow Springs, booked Willow's "Horseshoe Mile" circuit for the 1125R/848 comparison. It's a very tight circuit designed not for racing but to support Willow's very busy advertising photo shoot business. No excuses, but it just happened to be almost ideal for the 848, which would likely get around there faster than a 1098. So far, in real races, near stock 1125s have been finishing very well in comparison to 1098s. In the recent French Top Twins races, the best belt-drive, standard-muffler 1125R was only 1 second per lap slower than a $40,000, 1200cc 1098R ridden by a former French Superbike champion, and at the last two Willow Springs Twins races on the big track, Shawn Higbee finished, respectively, six seconds ahead of and just behind a hot-rodded 1098. Higbee's bike had a standard muffler and belt-drive, and was geared too tall to pull sixth on the straight. | ||
| Anonymous |
 Horse Thief Mile is the smallest of the 3 Willow circuits, located to the middle right of the image. It has no straights, and is an ideal circuit for a small bike. To its left is the main 2.5-mile Willow circuit, and below it the "Streets of Willow Springs." circuit. | ||
| Elvis |
The exact quote was "The 1125R showed promise during runs up and down twisty Mt. Palomar Road, one of our local test venues. It's midrange power advantage almost felt like cheating (hey, it does have a nearly 30 percent displacement advantage) when driving out of uphill corners; gear selection was not a concern." I would take that as a compliment. Pulling hard out of turns and not having to worry about gear selection. A compliment maybe, but they certainly went out of their way to qualify the "compliment". Why didn't they just say something like this: "The 1125R showed promise during runs up and down twisty Mt. Palomar Road, one of our local test venues. It's midrange power was superior to that of the 848. When driving out of uphill corners; gear selection was not a concern." |
