| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) Chris (OdinBueller), Thanks so much for sharing that very valuable information! If you have anything else to add or clarify or correct, I'm all ears. The entire 1125R riding community on BadWeB thanks you, and I thank you sincerely! Blake | ||
| Pariah |
Thanks Chris!!! I'm going in for my first service tomorrow, and I'm bringing a printout of this post. Cheers, Takis | ||
| Brad1445 |
Congratulations to all the ones that took a beating for reporting their troubles here. Your not crazy, you may now say "I told you so!" !  | ||
| Nickcaro |
 | ||
| Odinbueller |
Oh, you guys! And Blake, you're making me blush!  I know that battery drain has been an ongoing issue, and this calibration update should address most of those issues. The big one is the fuel pump maintaining pressure after key off to prevent vapor lock. Like the bulletin stated, the previous calibration had that running for a possible maximum of 20 minutes (not continuously, however). That is now cut in half. On any motorcycle, I recommend a Battery Tender be used, just to prevent any kind of battery drain issues. Even if you plan to ride the next day, the Battery Tender will ensure that your battery is fully charged, and it will extend the service life of your battery to boot. Another feature on all DDFI III motorcycles that may not have been touched upon as of yet, but there is procedure to clear gas fouled plugs. This is convenient if you start & idle your bike without riding it more than twice; 1. Set Stop/Run switch to Run. 2. Hold throttle pinned to WOT. 3. Turn key to Ignition. This will fire the coil on front & rear cylinders for approximately 5 - 10 seconds without supplying fuel to the induction module. Now, you may need to repeat this procedure several times, but I've seen it work and it is extremely helpful if you have gas fouled your plugs. If I can think of anything else, I will gladly post it on the appropriate board. Chris | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Is it possible that this ECM update the cheapest way make the situation "better" without addressing the true problem(s)? Remember, the original best theory was that some components were faulty, which explained why some bikes were bad and others fine. The question that STILL bothers me is why some and not others? So are any owners from unaffected 11s going to re-flash? | ||
| Odinbueller |
Hey Harlan, Considering that this update encompasses all 1125R models assembled up to 4/4/2008, it could very well be a software problem as opposed to hardware. At our dealership, we haven't had any concerns regarding faulty components, so I'm hoping that this will address that issue. I have to admit, however, I have not been as diligent about the posts on this board, so there may very well be issues that need to be addressed. I'm hoping not. But we'll see. Chris | ||
| Odinbueller |
Now if you will pardon me, I have GTA IV to play while the kids sleep!  | ||
| Dre99gsx |
Is this going to be a "walk in" ordeal or does it have to be scheduled with dealers? My dealer is never free on the days I have free, which makes dealer visits frustrating. | ||
| Edmbueller |
I printed the info on this thread and took it to my dealer today. They gave me deer in headlights and had no clue. | ||
| Cataract2 |
ECM will now control cooling fan operation independently and is regulated by coolant temperature and battery voltage. I do and don't understand this one. How is it controlled before the flash? | ||
| Blake |
"Is it possible that this ECM update the cheapest way make the situation "better" without addressing the true problem(s)?" No. That would be assinine, stupid, and ludicrously foolish as we'd all figure it out soon enough. Listen up Harlan, you need to understand something. The folks at Buell are among the finest and most ethical in the business, and they genuinely care very much about the quality of their products and the integrity of their work. Your comment is WAY out of line and a horrible insult to anyone working at Buell Motorcycle Company. The people there are real you know. You ever plan on meeting them face to face? Think before you post. "The question that STILL bothers me is why some and not others?" Dude, you'll likely be wringing your hands over that and a thousand other such "questions" that bother you all the way to your grave and beyond. You should get yourself a job with underwriter's laboratories or something so you can put such overwhelming curiosity to good use. | ||
| Nickcaro |
I printed the info on this thread and took it to my dealer today. They gave me deer in headlights and had no clue.  same thing happened when the oil check thread was first posted. Give it a few weeks. Liberty is one of the only "Buell friendly" dealers in our area and it will take time for the info to spread out... specially to the not so Buell friendly. | ||
| Zac4mac |
I was at my dealership today and talked to service. Showed them the blurb about the ECM flash in an e-mail and the service guy looked it up on HD-net. Sure enough, there it was, but the Buell tech is up to his eyeballs in snakes. Since I'm not having any trouble with Loretta, I said I'd wait a while and schedule an appointment when it's convenient for both of us. Thanks Chris for the initial heads-up and complete follow-up. Z | ||
| Brad1445 |
I believe in the Golden rule, but customers are often warned by you Blake and Court to be friendly, positive, speak softly etc when talking to Buell personnel. IMO more so than normal politeness is requested, so does that mean they A. Own guns, and are not afraid to use them. or B. Have extra very sensitive feelings. or C. you are in fact the Clark kent to Erik Buells superman. Has anyone seen the two of you in the same place at the same time, hmmmm, Blake? If that is your real name... lol  Everyone wants to be treated nice but is a customer with a problem who is a little wound up that far out of order? | ||
| Tasmaniac |
G'day All ECM will now control cooling fan operation independently and is regulated by coolant temperature and battery voltage. I assume that this will will allow the thermostat to turn the fan on to cool coolant but it will turn off when it senses the battery voltage is dropping too low for the next time the bike is started. Hey Brad when i used to get customers come in ranting and raving i so wanted to take them out the back and flog them but it was always easier to let them get a cab home and look after the customer who treated you with the same respect and civility that you gave them. Irate customers never get the best service Regards Brett | ||
| Court |
>>>>No. That would be asinine, stupid, and ludicrously foolish as we'd all figure it out soon enough. That is an accurate statement that lent credence to the wide ranging opinions of thousands of Buell owners around the world. Here's the facts: The folks at Buell are dedicated, educated and enthusiastic professionals committed to designing, building and making the best motorcycles possible. While the internet allows the brief of mind and quick of mouth to immediately run to the door and leap to any conclusion they want . . the good folks at Buell must rely on facts. Imagine . . .for a nanosecond. . . if they had made a global change based on information obtained from then internet and then found out they'd responded to data from Baggermike's highly owner modified Buell. Sound engineering solves problems not symptoms. Trying . . . and this was the part of the above statement that I owe someone a big thanks for making me spew Snapple in the basement of Avery Library. . . to "hide" something on the internet is like trying to park a yellow jeep on the 50 yard line of the Super Bowl and deny it exists. Proving once again the human hand can type anything. The folks at Buell are also committed to constantly improving communication. When I posted the first news that the re-flash was imminent it wasn't something that I dreamed up. It was word from friends working on it and the green light to let owners know they'd been working day and night and that the re-flash would be at dealers in 6 days. If you want . . . route around the internet and see if you can determine the "problem life cycle: in most motorcycle companies. . . it can easily run into the years from first complain to dedication of resources to disseminating a solution. See if you can find me one other company where a customer complains and the platform engineer for the company has his wife thrust the complaint before him while he's eating dinner the same day. Buell is an amazing company. I hope to wrangle a few of you from the herd at Homecoming and show you a couple things. I think you, like the major Japanese manufacturer that toured East Troy, will be amazed that these motorcycles can be assembled by mere homosapien bipods and achieve such high quality. It takes heart. | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . none of you have ever sat through my lecture on "Change and Technical Paradigms" at Columbia but let me share something. . . the world is a NEW PLACE. We've left the lick-a-stamp age and it's no longer unusual for the customer, who has the leisure time to wander the internet that the dealer tech does not, to get word of developments first. Customers, folks like us, in fact hide out looking for new products and monitor every bulletin board we can with our antennae at full mast. If you get to your dealer and they are not fully up to speed do yourself a huge favor and become an instrument of information not insult. Send them the link to this thread, sent them to HDNet and help educate them. Better dealers won't just happen they need to be made and it will ultimately be a joint effort between Buell-owners-Badweb. Do good things. Court | ||
| Ponti1 |
+ LOTS, Court As a Buell enthusiast, I like to think of myself as an honorary employee of the company. If I have something useful to offer in problem solving, I may offer it to the TEAM. If the only thing I have are negative comments, I may as well skip work to look for a new job... | ||
| Court |
You nailed it! I try to sort through as much stuff as I have the time and patience for and make sure folks have all relevant information. It's also very cool that Buell has a relationship with the owner community that allows and encourages this dialogue. It was cool, a couple weeks ago when I alluded to the coming re-flash, that they were so excited about it.
We're all in this together. Buell does an amazing, and unique among the world's motorcycle companies, job of staying close to customers. They ride too. | ||
| Rainman1ne |
Went to my Dealer and they said " I dont see the point in doing this, nothing is wrong with your bike." Calling customer service now! | ||
| Odinbueller |
Another cool thing about the DDFI III ECM; The XBRR, XB, and Loki models all use the same ECM. Just goes to show how versatile the design is. Some of the preliminary info on wiring & processes for engine management are really interesting. Kimbal is giving Delphi a run for their money as far as most robust design. | ||
| Court |
Did they say that before or after they read the technical update from Buell? The dealer, perhaps they don't realize it, assumes a good deal of liability at that point. Call BUELL CUSTOMER SERVICE, be polite and concise, tell them precisely what happened and let them educate your dealer. Sigh . . the lesson of customer service and satisfaction is so lost on many Harley-Davidson dealers. Or . . on the other hand . . .you could have a Texas shade-tree mechanic who knows more about programming and digital fuel injection systems than all the engineers who have been working on this. Your dealer should be ashamed. Court | ||
| Teach |
Just a suggestion on my part. If you are having difficulty with a service tech being unresponsive, talk to the service manager. If that doesn't work, speak to the owner of the dealership. Present your concerns in a calm manner throughout the process. I work at a HD/Buell dealership and believe me the owners do not want unhappy customers. It is bad business. Try the "chain of command" approach. We had one owner who had some problems with a new Buell a few years ago, followed this procedure all the way up to speaking to the owner and the dealership bought his bike back and gave him a super deal on a new one. He ended up praising the dealership and recommending us, highly. | ||
| Court |
QUIRK: Someone reported that they started their 1125R and saw the cumulative mileage at ZERO. EXPLANATION: The odo mileage is stored in the ECU; there is a handshake where it passes it to the dash cluster. Somehow the cluster lost the information for awhile, but the actual count and mileage is always stored in the ECU. WORRY QUOTIENT: 0 Thanks to Buell owners for finding this. Court | ||
| Brad1445 |
I suggest bringing brownies and milk when speaking to Buell SErvice personnel. And use your indoor voice. And dont show up on your lunch time. Dress nice, no loud colors. | ||
| Doerman |
I suggest bringing brownies and milk when speaking to Buell SErvice personnel. Naaah..I just bring enthusiasm for the brand and the dealer. That's always contagious. Works every time! | ||
| Helicon |
My 1125R is in for its first service and i called them up yesterday, seconds after reading this post. Even though I had mentioned the reflash to them last week, they still hadn't heard anything about it. I'm not real worried about that because of very helpful posts like these. I will say what worried me a little bit is the fact that non of their techs have gone to the 1125R training. The assistant service manager stated it was because the owner did not want to pay for it. Is this normal? | ||
| Court |
>>>Is this normal? First let's, for the purposes of this discussion, define "normal" as "more than 50%". It is, normal or not, a crying shame that a dealer would be willing to undertake selling a product, asking for your business and confidence and then forego basic requisite training. Buell bears part of the blame. They should have started training earlier and required one trained tech as a condition precedent to shipping an 1125R. I understand the "but there was not time between having the information and the start of shipping". I remain unconvinced that the minds at East Troy could not have overcome that . . even is it was just a 3 hour video confernece and propagation of a DEALER HOT LINE for 1125R service questions. You also bear some culpability. The dealer has, in a roundabout way, sent you a powerful commerical message that you are of little concern to them. You've effectively been served notice to start looking for a place to take your bike, your money and yourself. Check the date of the impacted population for the re-flash. If your bike is among the population ask that it be done and print out the Buell numbers for them. You SHOULD get (and you are entitled to ask for) a copy of the print out when they do it. In your case, I'd ask just to insure it was done. Better dealers are made, they just don't happen. Court | ||
| Teach |
Helicon, I think it would be reasonable to ask the dealership why? (If, indeed the assistant service manager is being accurate with his response) Selling Buells and not having a trained tech seems irresponsible to me, but you need to go above the assistant service tech and ask questions. Not sure this helped, but I will talk to our service manager and ask him if/how this could happen at a dealership. |
