| Author | Message | ||
     Phwx2 |
I have a blast and an xb. The blast got around 70 mpg and the xb 50 mpg. I was discussing mpg of motorcycles and assumed that most bike were in this range. I was surprised to find that most are lower than the xb. Further, I couldn't find anything bigger than a scooter that got close to 70 mpg. My 70 mpg and 50 mpg are real numbers from at least one summer of driving, hard driving, minimal highway mostly new england back road carving. So why isn't buell putting this out there - mpg. I've heard of people buying scooters to get 65 mpg and they are even real bikes - top speed of 65 mph. Here's my slogan "Drive like a lunatic and get 70 mpg! See your buell dealer!" | ||
| Ezblast |
Ninja 250@73MPG - is first, the Blast is second@71MPG, however, the Blast is the better bike. EZ | ||
| Fast1075 |
I did a LOT of research before buying my P-3...I wanted a very fuel efficient machine that had the guts to commute at freeway speeds when needed and offer the handling and ergos of a full sized bike...what won me over was the simplicity of maintenance (more specifically the complete lack of periodic valve adjustments...shim under bucket valvetrains are great in a high revving engine...but with my P-3, no shimming required!!) and no worries about timing chains and rollers and tensioner bows and such to wear out..I can commute for a week on the same amount of fuel I would use for a single trip in my Heep from home to work (It's one bad Dawg, but thats another story  ) Anyways..aside from the various 90's. 100's and 125's from my early youth...the best fuel economy I ever got from one of my bikes was my XL350 custom cafe bike..even with a stroker crank and overbore along with cam, headwork and a 38mm Mikuni...it got 85 mpg on the open road...and still ran 12.45 in the 1/4 mile with a slick and wheelie bars  ...but it had quirks that made it difficult to ride in city traffic...mainly hot cranking was a bit iffy at times...and it had an appetite for 3rd gears on the countershaft...but that might have just been me Bottom line: I have not found a better bike for my purposes of any brand especially considering the initial cost. | ||
| Rainman |
Agreed: Thumper will do 83 mph up our Blue Ridge Mountain freeway passing trucks. It cruises the interstate at 70 mpg at 70 mph. It regularly grabs 63 mpg in all-city ridng, which is where most of my commuting is. This has saved my pocketbook. | ||
| Luckyduck |
Wow, you guys must have special gas mileage tricks that I don't. My Blast got 62mpg once, going 55-60mph with a 25mph tail wind and all stock engine. Normally it is 50-55mpg in mixed around town and 55-60mph back roads. At least it does burn a LOT of oil to make up for it. Paul | ||
| Fast1075 |
Hmmmm.... wonder if the high oil consumption says anything about the low MPG numbers... | ||
| Gbaz |
i get 50-55 mpg, but there is no way to get good mpg going back and forth to work for me. 5 miles there all between 15-45 mph. | ||
| Reuel |
For one tank, I did an easy ride, averaging about 50 to 55, and got an 8 mpg improvement over my normal commute mileage. Still beats a Prius!  | ||
| Luckyduck |
Reuel, My Blast sometimes beats my Prius if I am riding alone, with both of us in either one the Prius wins. Driving 55-60mph on the back roads in the car gets right around 50mpg, 2 up on the Blast is about 45mpg. As to the excessive oil use....Right now I am just happy to have the Blast running and not leaving me stranded lately. I really don't want to spend any more on it for a while. Although restoring an '06 with 1500 miles on it is a lot easier than something like the 1960 BMW R26 we did a couple years ago. Paul | ||
| Fast1075 |
Lucky, You should have a leakdown done on the motor to see how the ring seal is doing. With mileage that low, It may simply still not be broken in. You may want to revisit the jetting...it could be simply too rich...if so, there might be the mileage problem...and if it has been run excessively rich over long periods, the resulting wash-out can prematurely wear the rings, piston and cylinder walls. I checked you profile and see you are from Iowa...Too far for me to drop by with my leakdown tester and borescope...best of luck...after all it ain't rocket science. Tip: If the cylinder seal is poor.. (leakdown into the crankcase over 15%) but the physical condition of the bore is ok...you may be able to fix the seal issue by using a common cleanser in an unconventional way...details on that if needed. | ||
| Jlnance |
They all use a lot of oil. I believe the general consensus is that it is coming in through the valves, not by the rings. My oil consumption seems to be way down since Cyclerama replaced my valve guide seals, which supports that theory. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Jinance, I ran across the thread about having your head repaired while browsing the vendors...I personally know Pam and Wes ...They were my machinist vendor of choice for my dragbike stuff...not the fastest turnaround in the world, but very good quality work...and great folks too boot. I have only had my P-3 for a bit over a month, so far it hasn't used any oil...ridden it about 500 miles. And yes, valve guide seals can contribute to oil consumption..poor intake seal will show up on the plug, but exhaust seal usually only results in oil consumption or possibly visible smoking after the engine has been idling. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
As soon as I did the piston and rings, oil consumption dropped drastically. When I did the cylinder, piston, rings and head, the consumption dropped to zero! Of course both engines do not run the PCV into the intake. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
PS Cyclerama is a Badweb sponsor too! | ||
| Fast1075 |
I think quite a few P3's with low mileage and high oil consumption that were bought used from dealer Rider's Edge programs have the problem from incorrect break-in..or more precisely...lack of break-in. The absolute worst thing you can do the top end of a new engine is let it idle and putt around with nearly no load...add in synthetic oils to the picture and you end up a problem with the cylinder seal and oil control. Tying this all into the previous post by Erik...I had the guys at Cycle Rama bore and fit a set of big bore pistons once for a 650 Kawi I was building...I asked Wes how I should break the cylinders in...he said to heat cycle the engine 4 or 5 times (crank it up, get it hot to the touch and shut it off and let it cool completely) but to NOT let it idle...blip the throttle constantly...afterwards..."take it to the track and run it like you stole it!"...I used that cylinder and kit for 2 years before I built a new motor and went to a 880 kit...the cylinder had less than 5% leakdown and the pistons still looked new, with no measurable wear...the piston kit was Weisco by the way. (Message edited by fast1075 on May 02, 2008) | ||
| Kustomklassix |
Harry - I've read through your profile and posts and you sound just like my uncle! LoL, he has about the same history and background and is roughly the same age as well! I was wondering though, I am planning at doing a big-bore on my Blast sometime this summer, and I wanted to know if the "...he said to heat cycle the engine 4 or 5 times (crank it up, get it hot to the touch and shut it off and let it cool completely) but to NOT let it idle...blip the throttle constantly...afterwards..."take it to the track and run it like you stole it!"..." method would be a good idea for our little thumpers as well. Thanks! | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Yes, that goes for Thumpers too. That is how to break-in a bike for immediate race use. The heat cycling is good but after that for a street bike I'd go with the 500 mile take it easy route (you dont have that luxury with a race engine). Thats my opinion and not only my opinion! | ||
| Fast1075 |
That is a valid question...and here is the answer as best as I can make it...most likely so...but I will add a couple of monkey wrenches to the answer...(A) Fit and finish have a LOT to do with it...the cylinder MUST be properly finished and the piston to cylinder clearance must be correct...this is not to say something set up wrong is ok...but not too loose, not too tight...the rings must be properly gapped and finished...(B) Piston construction...skirt design and piston material are important...generally speaking there are three types of piston material...conventional forging uses a low silicone alloy...the chief advantage here is...it can be forged (soft and malleable enough)...it will withstand hammering from detonation, etc better than a hard alloy...the downside is because of the low silicone content, the expansion rate is large...as such, it needs to be set up with a lot of clearance...lots of piston slap when cold...harder to maintain good ring seal....Cast pistons use a high silicone content...they maintain shape really well, can be set up tight because the expansion rate is low...downside is they don't tolerate detonation due to the hard material...and generally speaking the material is thinner....hypereutecic pistons (depending on who makes them) are somewhere between forged and cast with some similarities of cast and forged...not as strong and detonation resistant as forged, but (refer to "who makes 'em)stronger than cast... The bottom line is ask the supplier how the break in should go...but the standard stuff will still apply...mineral oil during break-in..no idling to speak of..but not wide open throttle other than short bursts for a couple hundred miles or so..AFTER doing the heat cycles. (Message edited by fast1075 on May 02, 2008) | ||
| Luckyduck |
All this talk of having to rework the heads and put in a new piston to get reasonable oil use makes me wonder this: Does anyone have a Blast they bought from the dealer and it just works? My answer is no, not even close. At least the parts and service guys at the dealer all know me.  Paul | ||
| Fast1075 |
As of this very minute, I have not seen another P3 other than the ones in the showroom (in person at least) so I dunno.. I have raced so long that I can't imagine a part that you just bolt on and go..get a piston...bolt it in?? nooooo...yah gotta massage it to remove sharp edges and stress risers...test fit it, check valve to piston clearance....fit the rings, deburr the rings, snap gauge the bore to MAKE SURE it's round and straight...but then again....racing was all about hours of set up and tuning, followed by mere seconds of run time, followed by more preparation...I had to pull and service the clutch on my dragbike between rounds!!! But I know what you mean...a street bike should need hours of CLEANING followed by HOURS of RIDING!!! Or better yet just ride it with that "real street bike" look... Anyways, Lucky...if you can get the motor leaked down, it will tell tons about whats going on inside...I have a close friend that restores old radial aircraft engines...the bores are nikasil and sometimes very hard to seat the hard chrome rings...I have seen him dust a bit of "zud" cleanser into the carb while revving the engine...he swears the mild abrasive helps seat the rings...but it is not a new trick...when Chevy first produced the smallblock engine,(All hail Zora Arkus Duntov) first run motors had very high oil consumption because the cylinder walls were finished too smoothly....in order to save the day, an enterprising engineer came up with the idea...and it worked! They dusted the motors, ran the livin fool out of em and then changed the oil...in your case the leakdown and in best case a visual inspection with a borescope to SEE if the cylinder is glazed or has other problems would be wise. (Message edited by fast1075 on May 02, 2008) | ||
| Ezblast |
Tons of folks have perfectly good Blasts - we are not even a 10% sample - just the lucky few who with good and bad discovered the BADWEB. EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Concur! Many people only get online because they have a problem, so you'll hear about problems. Bone stock Blasts are very reliable. Many problems occur because of modifications, neglect and improper maintenance. Oh and I bought my first Blast from the dealer... and it worked! | ||
| Gbaz |
i have no problems with my bike eating oil. i just havent fixed my jetting, and ride wot too much | ||
| Jlnance |
Does anyone have a Blast they bought from the dealer and it just works? Yes, they work as they were intended to. But we can make them work better than that. | ||
| Rainman |
So far, I'm that guy. I bought my Blast at 900 miles from the Rider's Edge program where I teach, complete with scratches from student drops. It burned about a quart per 1,000 miles until I got up to 3,000 miles and now it barely sips at the oil. I've had 63 mpg in the city and 72 on the freeway (at 65 mph) since I bought it. I've had no problems other than the right mirror refuses to stay in one place, and I ride to work as often as possible. Of course, the only modifications I have on it are the scratches my daughter put into it when she hit in the carport with her SUV.... | ||
| Ezblast |
Here's an interesting tidbit from another Forum - though not my kind of thing, I still think its cool that somebody is giving it a whirl - For those metrically inclined, thats 362cc. It was a rainy day this morning, and since I had a buddy who wasn't doing anything today, I asked him to lend a hand to install my Miser motor. For those who hadn't read my earlier post, I recently built another motor for my Blast, but this time I used the top end- cylinder head, cylinder and piston of a stock H-D 2003 883R Sportster. It was basically just a bolt on swap, everything fit perfectly- except I had to fab up a bracket for the upper tie bar frame mount(thanks ErikO). If you're wondering why I built a smaller 362cc to replace my 501cc- 10.5 to 1 Hi compression motor, well- two reasons. The 501 is getting getting quite old, and I'm tired of running premium gas and only getting 55MPG ! The reasoning for the 3.0" bore piston from the 883 is because it's smaller(duh) and has a much lower compression ratio = 8.9 to 1 so I can use 87 octane gas, and fyi- a stock Blast has a 9.2 to 1 comp ratio. The valves in the 883 head are also smaller than a stock Blast uses, and all this combined- should return extremely Miserly MPG's ! I'm hoping for anywhere from 80-100mpg...and will experiment with timing advance curves and jetting to achive this goal. Anyway, all I had time for, after just completing the swap, was to fire it up and take it for a short ride around the block. FYI- it fired right up and runs Quite a bit smoother than a stock motor, the low speed torque appeared to be similar to a stock blast. Although I think the jetting might be too rich, so when drier weather returns, and I can start tuning it in, I'll have more to report. Twenty Two Inches Baby FYI- A stock Blast is Thirty Inches ! | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Since I rejetted the streetBlast for max power its down to just above 40mpg. Thats just back and forth to work miles at 4.5miles each way! Was about 50mpg before. | ||
| Reuel |
I think jetting is not as big a factor to mileage as percentage of WOT. I took it mellow for a few days, and I'm getting 59 mpg. Current settings were averaging me about 54. I did the math last night. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
I'm usually shifting at redline (6500 or 7500 depending on if I have a good ignition) most of the time. Not much different than before though when I got 50mpg. I'm sure mellow or all freeway would get me better. | ||
| Ezblast |
Another report from Ralph on that Miser moter of his - I hope he's building a killer hi comp motor in the mean time - lol Miser Motor Testing...it begins Well, the testing officially began today, and I got some hard data back for you. But a little background first.. Today started out very foggy/misty and cloudy, it looked like it would rain and wasn't going to clear, but then by afternoon, the clouds lifted, the sky cleared and the sun came out and looked to be a beautiful afternoon. Also, this afternoon they had a Flattrack Motorcycle race scheduled at Path Valley Speedway about 50 mile away. So I decided to kill two birds with one stone, ie- to ride the Blast to races, and put some miles on this new 22cu.in. miser motor. Well...all started out perfectly, the weather was just getting nicer and nicer, with- blue/cloudless skies and plenty of sunshine, and with a temp hovering around 70ยบ. So I filled up the blast with 87 octane from my local Exxon station, that still is selling Ethanol- free fuel. And off I head to the races ! When about half way there, I started to push the lil miser a bit harder, and then even harder, then said WTF- and went WFO ! Now mind you, although the jetting may be off a bit(too rich), I believe everything else about the motor is within specs and tune. So on a wide open section of level road, I tried to top out the new miser motor- and it did, it topped out just over 75mph. Well...thats not too bad, and there maybe another 5mph in her with timing and jetting changes, and I think I was getting a bit of reversion(fuel spit) back thru the carb at high speed- as I smelled the strong aroma of raw fuel after my high speed run. Ok now, I get to the track(out in the middle of knowhere- aka: Spring Run ,PA), and the track is empty, no-one is there !? I waited a while and it was already an hour past the time the gates were supposed to be open at 3pm, and still no sign of the lil 1/4mile dirt track opening. Sooo...I headed down the road to the local Path Valley Restaurant, which WAS open, and looked for Racers. But none were to be found, so I went inside and asked if the races had been cancelled, they told me YES- they were, because of heavy rains LAST night and this morning, although it had been beautiful out since noon...sighs Anyway, I decided since it was soo nice out- perfect riding weather, to just RIDE the lil miser and see what other info I could glean from the testing to report back. Ok, so I rode and rode and rode the rest of the afternoon. I started worrying that my petcock wasn't working properly as I had already travelled 150miles and hadn't hit reserve yet. The fuel tank has had me a bit worried ever since my petcock leak about a month ago->that almost became a nightmare ! So I pulled over at a Shell station and filled her up...it only took 1.99gal ! I maybe bad at/and hate math, but 150miles divided by 2gal = 75 mpg! (w/87octane) WOW- that sure beats 55mpg using 93octane ! Well now, I have a 75/75 miser motored Blast, IE- 75mph top speed, and gets 75mpg. AND THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING ! Stay tuned for the results of further tuning and experiments. |
