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Court
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 09:56 am: | 
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I spoke to Peter a number of times through the ordeal.
His concerns had merit.
Buell, from everything I know, bungled a great opportunity.
The "get a refund" process is cumbersome and ugly since you are dealing with one company who sold the bike and a completely different entity who handled financing. Simply having the manufacture say "okay, we'll give you a refund does NOT relive you from the responsibility of making payments during the MONTHS (I warned how slow this process is in a number of prior posts) it takes for the process to run its course.
The only thing uglier is a "Lemon Law" resolution. Takes lots of time and you end up getting the "sale price less depreciation". Nothing like watching a the face of a person who just "won" as they are handed a $7,000 check and watching the bike they paid $12,000, and often owe $10,000 for, wheeled away. |
Ustorque
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 10:13 am: |
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jrmsr51...here's a little food for thought before you flame anyone else on this board:
I spoke to Peter a number of times through the ordeal.
His concerns had merit.
Buell, from everything I know, bungled a great opportunity.
}thanks court |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 10:23 am: |
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Well Jeff, you started off harsher than I did when I blasted the Firebolt guys about their "Headlight bitchfest".
This thread has been a little over the top sometimes, but Peter has kept his issue localized to this thread only.
That in itself shows a great deal of class in my book.
His most recent rant about the Buell was closely followed by an apology, another class act.
You obviously have a lot of experience with bikes, it'd be nice if you stuck around, BUT...
NO personal attacks, please. Nobody here is a moron.
Everybody has different tastes and desires in their lives, tolerance is paramount.
This site thrives on the varied inputs of ideas, let's try to keep it that way.
Personally, I think an apology, specifically to Peter and generally to the rest of us, is in order.
Peace out
Zack |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 11:35 am: |
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By the way . . . . I am not saying I am right and my opinion is based on very sketchy accounts.
I **looks* like Peter had some very serious issues. In addition it **looks** like it took Buell a couple weeks to respond and the response was wishy-washy at best.
It's also looked like this has been the case with a number of the teething issues.
As many people watched it may have been prudent to have in place and ready a very rapid response plan. If even to say "we've not a frickin' clue what caused your problem but we have folks looking into it".
The biggest problem, again just simply from watching, is that the response rather than timely and concise has all the makings of being mired in corporate bureaucracy. Not the stuff that builds brand and customer loyalty.
If you were to take badweb as representative of the Buell population as a whole . . . . well, it **looks** like nearly everyone who has purchased a 2008 XT has has some sort of a problem or another. The responses, to date, are underwhelming.
This type of stuff attracts attention.
Even if there IS a very real problem a company, quick on it's feet, can leverage this to their advantage by mounting an impressive response.
Communication, to the loyal customer, is EVERYTHING. You can slap us around time and time again and we'll love you if you so much as tell us you'll be slapping us soon and make us feel like part of the process. You can learn a great deal about Buell owners by carefully studying a Lab puppy.
Buells response seems to be clogged with HD protocols.
Again . . . I'm a simple construction worker scanning the internet periodically and have been called (by the President of Buell Distribution) and "anecdotal alarmist" (Note: I'm still here, he is gone) so I could be COMPLETELY FRICKIN' OFF BASE.
I'm dying here waiting for that Buell that sends Henrik, Blake and I scrambling for our check books.
I've spent some time preparing logic diagrams and flow charts of how this could work to make dealing with Buell so damned impressive folks would be fighting to buy one. If you ever get a chance read some stuff like CUSTOMERS FOR LIFE by Carl Sewell and CUSTOMERS.COM by Patricia Seybold.
It's a new world. Information travels at the speed of light. A company caught in the days of the "Snap Form Speed Memo" is at a pronounced disadvantage.
I was pretty sure about some of this and even more certain after recently attending a Buell event and visiting with owners. Folks seem in love with the motorcycle and the Buell idea, but in fear of the process of dealing with the whole "this is the way we've always done it" HD mindset.
Interesting times.
(Message edited by court on April 27, 2008) |
2kx1
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 01:34 pm: |
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Court,
Could you please tell everyone about the Buell that will send yourself Henrik, and Blake scrambling for your checkbooks?
I may be scrambling for mine in another month and I don't want to scramble it the
wrong way.
As far as Interex's bike , I think it was a shame that it was handled the way it was by Buell,however he seems to be perfectly happy with his Ducati . I guess all things happen for a reason.
Ok perhaps a new thread on the QB for Duc upgrades and maintenance, that kinda stuff is always interesting. |
Interex2050
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 01:52 pm: |
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I have an update
After a few calls to Buell Customer Service and Harley Davidson Financial things have once again fallen into a "peaceful" state
My assumptions were somewhat correct,
by making the payment it would have been detrimental to the refund process
What the bill and the representative, who called on Thursday, failed to mention is that Harley Davidson Credit is aware of the refund process. I called them on Friday and spoke to a far more knowledgeable individual, who informed me that Buell did make a note on my account, and that as long as this is taken care of by May 14th I do not have to worry about making the payments.
If this goes on past then, I will have to make a payment.
As Court said the biggest problem has been communication, or lack thereof.
Which leads me to speculate; and the pace that I forced myself into, coherent thought is sometimes elusive.
Jmsr51,
You do have some valid points:
-I am guilty of getting a bit too emotional and letting my feelings temporarily get in the way of rational thought.
A fine example was my most recent "bill" incident, I have said things that were brash and irrational. Fortunately, I do not act based upon such thoughts; my actual actions are a bit more thought out.
-I am also guilty of talking about the Ducati in the inappropriate place. Although I figured it would make for good "filler" while waiting for updates.
I would like to say something about the "single-sided" nature of the story...
Overall it has been just that; I too have been left out of the loop, when I would take it to the dealer it would disappear for a while then I would get a call back saying something along the lines of "shes done, pick her up and give her a try."
Perhaps I was too loyal in the purchase of the 1125R...
My rational was:
-I need method of getting around, can't keep borrowing other peoples' bikes
-The 1125R looks like a perfect choice, liquid cooled (no pinging)
-Its a huge step for Buell, and I would like to support them in this venture
-And I figured that Buell has taken very good care of my in the past, if problems were to arise they would take care of it in a timely fashion
Sure I bitched quite a bit in this thread, but most of the experience has been frustrating. It is here for those who are interested, and to keep a log of the experience. So if anyone else has to go through something similar, perhaps my experience will prove to be useful.
One final comment, you do not know me and I do not know you... Making assumptions about what kind of person I am or about my intelligence is simply uncalled for.
Sure I can get into a "pissing" contest with you but I won't, there is no point.
I would really like to thank everyone who has stood by my side and backed me up, this is why badweb is such a unique and wonderful place; like a big family.
And in due time, I am sure I will get another Buell... There is just something about them.
Cheers,
Peter
Edit:
Lars, will do...
Lots to talk about!
(Message edited by interex2050 on April 27, 2008) |
Ustorque
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 02:30 pm: |
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rock on peter
an honest post start to finish & nothin but class, enjoy the new duc but don't stray too far...stop by the
board, Greg(ducx1) is always around dying to talk about ducati ! as you've seen
(Message edited by ustorque on April 27, 2008)
(Message edited by ustorque on April 27, 2008)
(Message edited by ustorque on April 27, 2008) |
Diablo1
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 03:07 pm: |
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The only thing uglier is a "Lemon Law" resolution. Takes lots of time and you end up getting the "sale price less depreciation". Nothing like watching a the face of a person who just "won" as they are handed a $7,000 check and watching the bike they paid $12,000, and often owe $10,000 for, wheeled away.
That's not the way it's done in Indiana. You can see the law below. If you drove the vehicle 1,000 miles you get back 99% of the purchase price. Also they pay ALL finance charges! Looks like a pretty good option if you get the runaround from a dealer in my state.}
IC24-5-13-11
Sec. 11.
If a refund is tendered under this chapter with respect to a vehicle that is not a leased vehicle, the refund must be the full contract price of the vehicle, including all credits and allowances for any trade-in vehicle and less a reasonable allowance for use.
To determine a reasonable allowance for use under this section, multiply:
the total contract price of the vehicle; by
a fraction having as its denominator one hundred thousand (100,000) and having as its numerator the number of miles that the vehicle traveled before the manufacturer's acceptance of its return.
The refund must also include reimbursement for the following incidental costs:
All sales tax.
The unexpended portion of the registration fee and excise tax that has been prepaid for any calendar year.
All finance charges actually expended.
The cost of all options added by the authorized dealer.
Refunds made under this section shall be made to the buyer and lienholder, if any, as their respective interests appear on the records of ownership. |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 03:35 pm: |
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Why that's all very interesting . . . . it's not really very german here since motorcycles are not included.
Read
quote:
IC24-5-13-5
Sec. 5. As used in this chapter, "motor vehicle" or "vehicle" means any self-propelled vehicle that:
has a declared gross vehicle weight of less than ten thousand (10,000) pounds;
is sold to:
a buyer in Indiana and registered in Indiana; or
a buyer in Indiana who is not an Indiana resident (as defined in IC9-13-2-78);
is intended primarily for use and operation on public highways; and
is required to be registered or licensed before use or operation.
The term does not include conversion vans, motor homes, farm tractors, and other machines used in the actual production, harvesting, and care of farm products, road building equipment, truck tractors, road tractors, motorcycles, mopeds, snowmobiles, or vehicles designed primarily for offroad use.
As added by P.L.150-1988, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.141-1990, SEC.1; P.L.2-1991, SEC.84.
Lemon Laws are like divorce . . . generally a pain in the ass for everyone concerned.
Just my opinion as a person who reads and studies quite a bit. I've always found that the best way to deal with a major corporation rarely involves threats. I've watched folks who, rather than make a genuine effort to resolve an issue, resort to school yard shit like "I'm going to teach HD a lesson". They haven't yet. |
Brad1445
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 06:10 pm: |
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Peter, your a classy poster. No need to apologize for talking about motorcycles on a motorcycle site, its part of the story. people who love motorcycles understand. |
Diablo1
| | Posted on Sunday, April 27, 2008 - 09:25 pm: |
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Court, you're correct. I missed the part that motorcycles aren't covered by Indiana Lemon Law. |
Interex2050
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 10:58 am: |
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Thanks guys!
I will definitely be around.
I have great news!
I have received part of my refund yesterday and will pick up the rest this Thursday (maybe Friday).
The news do not stop there...
I got an update on my ex-1125R, they have continued to tinker with it...
The hole in the power band is gone,
and the guys at Buell started talking about reflashing the ECU to aid with the warm starting.
Aside from that it is currently down south getting a full fairing made for it, its a two piece (top/bottom)...
Should be very sexy once done.
Have to run,
I will elaborate/decipher later |
Jrmsr51
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 08:17 pm: |
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Zac,
Your absolutely right! I do owe and apology to everyone. Please except my most humble apology for my loss of temper. I've been around alot over the past 4 decades, raced AFM, AMA, FIM for about 20 years combined. My problem is I don't like whinning! Most of the motorcycles today had there adolescent beginnings with nothing but problems. Kawaski with their flexy frame 900, H1 & H2's not to mention the Z1R, Honda with countless cam tension problems over the years not to mention suspensions and I could go on an on. Worked on most, modified most for some type of racing at one time or another. Every new design has teething problems especially with the new electronics offered on most. What kind of bugs me is we don't offer up a little common sense and allow Erik and company time to sort out the minor problems that are always associated with a new design, especially one that is a homologation of an Austrian motor, which is shipped to the Buell factory direct from Rotax. Remember Buell doesn't make the bike totally. I say give'em time they will sort out all the burps, I'm sure of it. Let's don't bury the bike before they have time to work things out. Last time I checked, Edsel was made by Ford not by Buell.
Cheers
Jeff |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 10:22 pm: |
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Good on ya man -
I've said the same thing many times, this is a RevA product, in a very big way.
Expect some issues and hope they get resolved in a timely fashion.
Work within the system.
There's a fine line between comparing notes and having a whine-fest.
It's not what you say, so much as how you say it.
Welcome to BadWeB
Zack |
Rainman
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 04:33 pm: |
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Well, that was interesting. But may I point out that, somehow, it is hard to believe that Court is a mere, humble, construction worker.... I've seen his photographs. |
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