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Darthane
| | Posted on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 07:41 pm: | 
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Here's hoping this is all a lot of hot air.
I've only been riding for 13 months. 13 beautiful months spent on a Blast and now a brand new Firebolt. If Buell went under (and judging by the people that ride them, I don't think it'll ever happen - Buell will live on in one way or another) I've no idea what kind of bike I'd ride. Closest thing would be a Ducati, but it's just not the same, you know?
Buellers are a unique breed, and there are no better people overall on the face of the planet.
Bryan |
Raymaines
| | Posted on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 08:52 pm: |
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Anonymous says “They are not going to illuminate this future with a 75 HP motor... ”
José says “The "Sportbike buyers market" wants a bike powered by an engine that is perceived as "modern"”
Blastin says “Will everyone just get over the horsepower thing, and just ride!!!!”
Ray says: Everyone is right to some extent but time will tell whom is most right. Personally I’m betting on Anonymous and José. I think that in the real world market place perception is everything. If that’s true, then HD has two possible avenues:
1) HD might just keep producing quirky little, slow and slow selling sports bikes for years and years to come. In other words, HD could try to change my perception of what a sports bike should be. Or
2) If they want to sell a bunch of bikes quickly they’ll have to produce an engine perceived as “modern” with a lot more than 75 HP.
Maybe Europe is different but in the USA horsepower rules. Harley will either have to change my perceptions or cater to my perceptions. Building a new and faster engine should be cheaper and easier in the long run than continuing to try and jam slow bikes down our throats.
And another thing to remember is that this isn’t a moral issue. HD isn’t either “Right” or righteous for having built a 75HP V-twin. They are in business to sell motorcycles, nothing more and nothing less. That means they give the public what the public wants or someone else will. If someone else builds what is generally perceived as a better bike then that someone else will sell lots of bikes, make lots of profit and their stock will go up. |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Friday, July 19, 2002 - 10:48 pm: |
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Quote:3) I also have spoken with a dealer that DROPPED the Buell line in 1999 because they're conceived (wink, wink) as being unreliable. The funniest part about that....this same dealer LOVES to tinker with my bike! He's even offered me a job selling Buells when he decides to bring the line back into his store
Lake, what dealer would that be? I live in the area & have pretty much been to them all.
Also regarding unsold XB's on the floors. I think its 2 things.
#1, The price is a little high for an unproved 1st yr product from a company with a known history of recalls & other problems.
#2. Everyone & their brother has heard the rumors about a 1200cc bolt. Why spend the coin on the lil bolt when you can wait a yr & hopefully get the bigger & most likely a lot more powerful engine? |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:37 am: |
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I believe these past several years are just the beggining for the BMC...not the end. |
Spiderman
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:12 am: |
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Everyone & their brother has heard the rumors about a 1200cc bolt. Why spend the coin on the lil bolt when you can wait a yr & hopefully get the bigger & most likely a lot more powerful engine?
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The rumor that was started on this board, and also that doesn't stop people from buying 40,000 dollar Cobra Mustangs that can be beatin by 20,000 dollar Z28 Camaros now does it? ALSO why did you buy your Buell in the first place for ohhh lets say 9,595 for a M2 when you could have bought a CBR929RR for a little more if not the same price depending on dealer or location.
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in the long run than continuing to try and jam slow bikes down our throats.
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I hardly think someone shoved your M2 down your throat did they? If so you look like you recovered pretty well. As for people who say that the Bolt is slow obviously haven't ridden it and if so may not have ridden the competitors bikes. I have ridden Duc. 929 Super Sports and GSXR 1000 FAST yes but not as comfy or well handling as my Buell. The closest was the GSXR 1000 it had a lot of Low end but the sound of a blender doesn't harden my nipples like a Buell. And remember what Buell said in article in Battle2win not too long ago. It's all about the useable power baby!! |
Buellbob
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:31 am: |
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May I ask why you all say the xb has only 75 HP. I'm positive the stuff in the dealer showroom I was recently in says it has 91 HP.
Bob |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 01:49 am: |
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Quote:The rumor that was started on this board, and also that doesn't stop people from buying 40,000 dollar Cobra Mustangs that can be beatin by 20,000 dollar Z28 Camaros now does it? ALSO why did you buy your Buell in the first place for ohhh lets say 9,595 for a M2 when you could have bought a CBR929RR for a little more if not the same price depending on dealer or location
2 points I will make here.
#1. Its not simply just on this board that the 1200cc or larger bolt subject has come up. As a matter of fact one of the Buell engineers was at ASBN out in California & stated that reason for the 984cc engine in the lil bolt was for racing purposes. He said they can go bigger & most likely will. This was from people who were in attendance at this event.
#2. I do not have an M2, I own an X1 & I didnt even buy the damn thing, my wife did. She previously owned a Blast & hated it, wanted to trade it in on a lowrider but couldnt get a good enuff deal. Decided if she got the X1 that I would spend more time on it & she could then ride my Wideglide, obviously a very smart women. I was at work when she did the whole deal for this bike. |
José_Quiñones
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 08:22 am: |
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Bob, not busting your chops, but have you ever riden a bike on its CRANK?
No, you also need the engine sprocket, the PRIMARY CHAIN, the clutch, the transmission, the output shaft, the front pulley, the belt, the rear wheel pulley the rear wheel and finally the rear TIRE to put the power on the ground.
92 is what the Buell Dyno measured the HP at the CRANK.
75 HP is the average HP at THE REAR WHEEL of the Firebolts that have been tested by the magazines and their owners and posted here.
The Crank HP is a nice marketing number, but it's BS, just like the 385 pound dry weight
Buell is not alone in doing this, all the other companies do the same thing.
But I will say Buell's engines seem to loose more from the brochure to the rear tire than most bikes.
For example, the VROD is quoted at 115 HP at the crank.
Most magazine tests have recorded about 105 to 107 RWHP. So that's an 8 percent loss through the driveline.
78 is only 84% of the Crank HP of 92 HP as claimed in the brochure. This is inline with past Buells, as they historically loose about 15% from the crank to the rear wheel.
The 1998-2002 1200cc 101 HP thunderstorm engines averaged about 85 RWHP. |
Spiderman
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 09:11 am: |
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#2. I do not have an M2, I own an X1 & I didnt even buy the damn thing, my wife did. She previously owned a Blast & hated it, wanted to trade it in on a lowrider but couldnt get a good enuff deal. Decided if she got the X1 that I would spend more time on it & she could then ride my Wideglide, obviously a very smart women. I was at work when she did the whole deal for this bike.
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I was using the M2 as an example one of Buells "slower" bikes. The second quote was from a previous posting.
So your wife is the Buell rider and your the Harley rider? Then i guess she is pretty smart then huh. |
Gcpoland
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 12:03 pm: |
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Crank HP is the standard of measurement for all motors. Chassis dyno's are a recent phenom. Mostly driven by DynoJet marketing. Go to any builder and you will see rows of crank dyno cells and very few chassis dynos. Just the way it is so that is the way they report HP on products. |
Buellbob
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 06:49 pm: |
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Jose
NO problem. I questioned only because I wasn't sure if guys were talking rear wheel HP or crank HP. From now on I'll assume all talk of HP is where the rubber meets the road.
Bob |
Dynarider
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 07:53 pm: |
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Quote:So your wife is the Buell rider and your the Harley rider? Then i guess she is pretty smart then huh.
Dude, perhaps you should go back & actually read my post. I stated she bought the X1 so that I could ride it & she would then ride my harley. What could possibly be so hard to comprehend with that statement? |
Spiderman
| | Posted on Saturday, July 20, 2002 - 11:40 pm: |
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Then read my post. You misread mine so eye for an eye i guess  |
Rick_A
| | Posted on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 12:45 am: |
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Folks...fact of the matter is all Buells use the same fundamental principals. Class leading horsepower has never, and I doubt will ever be one of them...not as long as the man is alive. It's pretty sad that the market for Buells is pretty flaccid in the states...must be them foreigners have better values when it comes to bikes. Here in the states the sheer ignorance, and sometimes animosity towards buells is staggering. |
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