| Author | Message | ||
     Tasmaniac |
G'day All I'm not going to throw any names about but there is too much whinging going on here about some fairly trivial matters with our beloved 1125R's. We have purchased purchased the first of the new breed of Buell therefore it is still really a prototype there are bound to be teething issues and any one who bought one should realise this and be prepared to live with it. Buell do not personally make every part of our bikes and will not be aware of certain issues until someones bike breaks, i used to work in a dealership here and every first model of Buell and Harley had issues like the S1,2 and 3's had front rotor issues top engine mounts 2 different types of rear shocks with problems, the first Twin Cam had cam bearing failures, Sportsters had a faulty primary chain tensioner,the list goes on. If you test ride a bike and it doesn't suit you because the bars are uncomfortable or the pegs are uncomfortable dont whine if you dont think it's right for you buy something else, most foot pegs and bars can be changed but you should never alter the suspension geometry of a street bike you could easily kill yourself. If your bike has a persistent or recurring problem take it back to your Dealer until it can be resolved. My bike had the stalling issue but it had fixed itself before the first service, just think without Erik Buell and his vision we would all be riding jappa's or those Italian thingy's I don't mean to upset anybody but bad PR will not get you anywhere Regards Brett | ||
| Jpfive |
Good points, Brett. Buell has done the creation. I saw myself as becoming a partner in the development of this bike before I made the decision to buy it. My bike has already made some contributions to the development of the breed. Pretty cool, actually - plenty of excitement to this bike, and not just in the riding. Jack | ||
| Tasmaniac |
Thanks Jack I made my mind up to buy mine after just sitting on one at the world superbike c'ship at Philip Island, i used to have a 2000 S3t which was the most comfortable and best handling bike i had ever owned i put 80,000 very hard kilometres on it over five years it had recalls on the disc rotor and rear shock and the updated primary chain adjuster broke i also broke 7 belts mainly from clutch up wheelstands when i sold it i wanted another Buell but the X1's and Firebolts were not comfortable enough for long distance riding down here so i bought a Night Rod nice power no ground clearance. Now i'm back on a Buell i couldn't be happier it's been too long between adrenaline rushes. Went for a ride on sunday with some mates over our local twisties called the sideling when we got to the lookout at the top my hands were shaking so much i could barely roll a cigarette and thats what this bike is all about it will give you a rush. Ya just gotta love it no matter what minor teething problems it may have Regards Brett | ||
| Zac4mac |
Spot on Brett, sliding down the bleeding edge can be messy once in a while. I've been working in R&D for the last 10 years- I love running a RevA and I'm proud to be a small part in further development. I love my Loretta. Best bike I've EVER thrown a leg over. Zack | ||
| Trojan |
We have purchased purchased the first of the new breed of Buell therefore it is still really a prototype there are bound to be teething issues and any one who bought one should realise this and be prepared to live with it. if you paid that sort of money for a new car or domestic appliance and it was unreliable, would you have the same understanding attitude or would you be battering down the door of the showroom asking for a refund? I think Brand loyalty is great, and share your enthusiasm for Buells of all kinds (even this one!), but I don't think that enthusiasm should be exploited by Buell to get customers to finish developing their bike. Buell have had at least 2 years to develop the 1125R to the point where it was ready for sale to the public, and at that moment it stops being a prototype and becomes a product, with all of the responsibility that incurs. The 'trivial' problems that are being reported are ones that have surely cropped up in testing, and are certainly not trivial if you are the owner involved. If I spend thousands of Pounds (or Dollars) on a new bike and it won't start after 3 days ownership then it will be going back to the dealer, regardless of make or model and regardless of brand loyalty. The battery problem has been documented on this site since the very first deliveries were made in the USA, yet when we get the 1125R here in the UK MONTHS after the US launch we still have the same 'trivial' problems arising. In some ways it is even worse here because we still don't have dealerships trained to service the bikes let alone solve problems! Buell need to get a handle on these issues once and for all before the bike becomes tarred with the reliability issues that are now very much in the public domain. | ||
| Spatten1 |
We have purchased purchased the first of the new breed of Buell therefore it is still really a prototype there are bound to be teething issues and any one who bought one should realise this and be prepared to live with it. I disagree completely. I've had two first model Buells, and that is why I did not buy the 1125. If I came off of a Japanese sportbike and spent 12k on a new Buell that had multiple issues I'd be furious. NOBODY buys a new R1 or GSXR expecting problems and thinking of it as a prototype. Yamaha and Suzuki would be out of business if people did not buy first year models for fear of problems. I worked for Kawasaki corporate, and we had problems with some new models, but it was the exception, not the rule. Most new products came out bullet proof, period. It is total BS to tell people coming from other mfgs that they should not be pissed when their bike is in the dealer not in their garage. It's not their fault that they expected more, it probably came from flawless experience with other motorcycles. Only a brand-loyal Buell or Ducati owner would expect a $12k+ new bike to have problems and be perfectly happy about the bike being in the shop. I'll tell you how to stop the griping: HAVE BUELL COMMUNICATE WITH THE OWNERS CONSISTENTLY AND EFFECTIVELY. | ||
| Jpfive |
I've never been on a brand-specific, motorcycle board where folks weren't complaining about something - and on a pretty significant percentage of the threads. Amazingly, they tend to touch on the same things - battery problems, rectifier problems, rideability problems, ergonomic complaints, this thing sure gets hot, what were they thinking when they designed it this way, etc, etc. I haven't seen any unique complaints to the 1125 so far, and nothing rising to the critical mass of recall or rebuild. I'm sorry, but expecting perfection in any manufactured product just flies in the face of the way things are - even where mere appliances are concerned. And, again, I'm sorry - but I have never placed motorcycles in this category. Blake just did a quick pass on the Ducati forum to find the stalling complaint on the much praised 1098. I think he has done us a service by putting that up for a little perspective. Bottom line to this, as it is on other forums - if the bike is not for you, try something else. Personally, I enjoy just about everything that comes with bike ownership, including the challenges of working around the 'quirks' that they all exhibit. I have always passed on 'first edition', though, until the 1125. It caught my imagination when it was first announced - and I made the conscious decision to not wait for it to be refined. Truthfully, love has a lot to do with it - and yes that includes brand loyalty. Look at the cult of Ducatisti for gosh sakes - the appeal of the brand is anything but rock-solid dependability. I will probably own one some day myself - and enjoy finding my way around its quirks, the same as on the 1125. Jack | ||
| P_squared |
What I'm curious to know, how many "exceptions" of bikes/owners that have NOT had any issues? s/n # 993 with a Jan. '08 build date - No problems. Or at least no problems that were not of my own making.  I'm not saying there aren't bikes/owners with issues. I'm just saying there ARE bikes/owners who have been perfectly happy with our "prototypes" and no issues found. Has anyone factually cataloged the bikes/serial #'s/issues in an attempt to prove/disprove a root cause, or are some of us just MAYBE being a little bit over reactive? I agree the ball was dropped in regards to the Service Manual, the oil check, etc. But I choose to look at those areas/issues as places BMC can improve, and have yet to have any detrimental impact to my ownership experience. Case in point, I knew more about break-in than the dealer I bought mine from. The Service Dept. there now knows why I chuckled and shook my head when they told me to keep it below 1,500 rpms for the 1st 50 miles. I chose that as opportunity to do a little proactive Buell education. Maybe it will help, maybe it won't, but I'm still happy with MY results of my purchase. | ||
| Bearly |
Most new products came out bullet proof Ah wow, I guess this is the internet. I own one and love it. Actually, I own four Buells and they are all great. If I didn't like them, or they didn't fit me as Tasmonic said above, I would have bought something else. I just hope they don't come out with more ground breaking bikes, I'll loose my house! | ||
| Doerman |
You and me both, Bearly! As far as whinging (a great Aussie word, by the way!), there's a difference between coming here and seek advice and share experiences versus coming in as a Monday morning quarterback. What I mean by that is BMC and/or the dealers should have done this or that. Waaaahh! If that is the case, use the proper channels to communicate that with BMC or the dealer. Incessant complaining about what those entities do or don't do here is akin to sitting in a bar and complaining to your friend that you and your wife don't have enough sex. My experience you ask? 5500 miles and one replaced front O2 sensor. That took all of 45 minutes at the dealer. | ||
| Baggermike |
I have not whined in a while but after seeing this thread I can not resist, I knew when buying the bike there could be some small issues, what I did not know is that Buell Motor Company does not stand by there product, I talked to Cody at B M C and he told me if I was doing the lemon law he could not help me, so we both made promises, I have kept mine and he has not, he had me bring my bike to a dealership to get answers to my questions and to see if anything was wrong with my bike, after a week of being at the dealership all I was told is it is fine and no answers to my questions, I talked to Cody again and promised to send me info and I am still waiting and it has been over a month, I still had the problem and was helped by someone on these threads and I got what I needed from him and found out I have a bad voltage regulator, I love the bike but hate the company, they screwed me by knowing that my bike is the only way to get around and had me bring the bike in to be checked out and to have answers to my question and the bike was there for a week and I got nothing. Now I know were I stand and it is by myself and I will fix it myself. I am no longer keeping my promise because the one made to me was broken. | ||
| Bearly |
This thread was about NOT whining. I think, or didn't miss something? | ||
| Brad1445 |
So when you bike has a problem its your problem so shut up? I would never buy a bike from a dealer or manufacture that thought that. And I don't think it's in Buells best interest to not receive all information that can help them grow. Don't wack the baby for crying, figure out what causing it and remove it. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Most new products came out bullet proof Ah wow, I guess this is the internet. I worked in R&D at Kawi, doing government relations work for three years. I saw all the recalls and TSBs. This is not internet folly from mom's basement. It is experience with a manufacturer launching new models every year. Bearly, I notice you are a pilot....Would a new model stalling out mid-air be fine by you in your line of work, if you were brand-loyal? How would you feel about beta testing fueling and charging issues on commercial flights? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I'll tell you how to stop the griping: HAVE BUELL COMMUNICATE WITH THE OWNERS CONSISTENTLY AND EFFECTIVELY. I agree 100%. I think the whole oil level fiasco is a perfect example. There is a MAJOR blunder with possible SEVERE consequences. Not only does it take weeks for BMC to acknowledge the blunder, but it doesn't even take the time to send a notice to the owner. If Buell expects the dealerships to inform the owners, it is WAY delusional of its dealer network. I'd be willing to bet that most 11s on the road are merrily riding around with significantly overfilled oil. It is easy for those lucky enough to have a problem free bike to call others whiners. It is also easy for those having problems to reiterate them here. I suppose both are human nature. Really, it comes down to BMC discovering why some bikes are running fine and others are not--then fixing the bikes. One would think with such an important step to the future of BMC, it would be more supportive of the product launch. And if they are furiously working behind the scenes, if they don't communicate that fact, then it does nothing to quell the bitching. | ||
| Spatten1 |
And if they are furiously working behind the scenes, if they don't communicate that fact, then it does nothing to quell the bitching. I agree. For example, Trojan gets bikes with the same charging problem he has been reading about here for three months. If Trojan's dealer told him that there is a 2-month rigorous testing program nearing completion and ECMs will soon be re-flashed, then there would be less speculation and complaining. If there are legal issues that preclude Buell from telling dealers that a solution is on the way, then that too should be communicated, and some informal discussions should take place to get the correct message across. No communication leaves people to assume the worst. | ||
| P_squared |
Harlan - I hope this isn't directed at me, "It is easy for those lucky enough to have a problem free bike to call others whiners. Not arguing with anyone who is having problems, and I can empathize. I've had enough bikes in my garage being fixed instead of on the road, and it does SUCK. I'm not trying to minimize/marginalize that. My point, and not the 1 on top of my head, is has anyone here done any actual analysis to help ID root cause of issues? I see a LOT of chatter, but finding facts is a bit slim. Maybe it's my lack of proficiency with using the search functions in BadWeb appropriately? Like I said, BMC, IMHO, did drop the ball on some things with this bike's release - Service Manual, Oil check/fill procedure, etc. I just happen to be one of the "lucky" ones who hasn't had any problems. It seems to me that those being very vocal about issues are a small % of the overall # of owners. I may be wrong. But it seems "easy" enough for an enterprising person to do some basic ground work (new thread maybe?): -Owner -serial # -Miles -Issue(s) -Dealer notified? -BMC CS called if Dealer unhelpful/unresponsive? -Other comments Trust me, I'd like to know specific details, as I can use it as an "early warning" system for my own bike. And I can understand & appreciate the "passion" being displayed here, but is it REALLY helping anyone? As for the "communications" part, I personally don't need BMC or a dealer very much for that. I can come here and find out easier. I'm not saying that is "right" or "the way it should be", I'm just saying that's my experience. Last comment: IMHO, anyone who is contemplating a $12k purchase who DOESN'T do their homework first may want to rethink their purchasing habits. For me, this site has been useful for that purpose. I knew going in before purchasing that the engine oil check was wrong) (easy enough to catch/fix before leaving the dealer). Otherwise, everything else appears, to me, to have been isolated issues) (VRs, Batteries, fuel rail, etc.). For me, those aren't issues due to that 24 month/unlimited mile warranty and the fact that I have other vehicles in case this one goes down. I'm personally confident I'll be notified, in due time, by BMC and/or my dealer when & if I need to bring my bike in for anything they have found/fixed. Until then, I'm just going to keep enjoying it. (Message edited by P_Squared on April 23, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
Good grief, more whining, griping and complaining and indignant pontificating. I'll say it again, though it seems I've said it endlessly going on for near a decade now: There is a HUGE difference between sharing a complaint and related information pertinent to the discussion of a problem/issue versus repeatedly, endlessly, taking near every chance to once again whine, gripe or complain. I think that is what this threads author is speaking too, the endlessly whinging nattering naybobs of negativity. Interestingly, we recently learned that the 1125R owner's manual, you know that thing that new owners are supposed to read when they purchase the bike, specifically instructs 1125R owners to power-down the bike by first turning the kill switch to off followed by the ignition key. It turns out that a some folks were not following that routine and apparently the result can sometimes be a significant drain on the battery, such that after a few days it would be severely or completely depleted of charge.  "There is a MAJOR blunder with possible SEVERE consequences." What "MAJOR" blunder? A typo? It was in truth a minor mistake, one that warranted more proactive/quicker correction I agree. What "SEVERE" consequences? Ohhh the drama! But then we both know that you really have virtually ZERO idea of what the facts truly are. Please stop over-dramatizing, making stuff up and posting it here. It is harmful to folks who may imagine that you are in the know concerning such issues; it's certainly not helpful to anyone anywhere. "Really, it comes down to BMC discovering why some bikes are running fine and others are not--then fixing the bikes." You'll be gratified to learn that what you suggest is exactly what Buell and Buell dealerships have been and are doing. That some folks may have chosen to not allow their dealership adequate chance to resolve their issue(s) is unfortunate. You cannot blame Buell for that. | ||
| Blake |
Scott (SPatten), "Would a new model (aircraft) stalling out mid-air be fine by you in your line of work (pilot)" You know better than that. The motorcycle equivalent to an aircraft stall would be to have the wheels fall off. None of the issues reported have been in the least life threatening. As to new aircraft, do you imagine that nothing similar to electical issues or the like occurs on new aircraft? You know, stuff like the radar failing, and the like? Ever heard about what happened to the first set of F-111 Ardvaarks that took to terrain following missions? The V-22 Osprey? The B-1B bomber? F-16s? You've never heard of electrical or mechanical issues causing commercial aircraft to crash? New aircraft don't contend with teething issues? You actually believe that? If you want a governmental agency stamp of perfectitude on motorcycles, the price will be affected. How much are you willing to pay? Honda sure set the example for all moto-manufacturers didn't they?... Dear new Gold Wing owner, the frame of your $20K motorcycle is likely to break in two, so please take it down to your local welder and have him put a stick to it. With that approach, it sure is a good thing that Honda doesn't build aircraft! When it comes to integrity in resolving issues and problems, Buell stands head and shoulders over any other motorcycle manufacturer I know. That's the simple truth. In my view they have fallen down a bit lately in the communications and proactive resolution areas, but that is easily remedied. First, they need to get customer service in house. That to me is one glaringly obvious fact. | ||
| Blake |
Ya gotta dig the way Suzuki handled the fire bombing fuel tanks of their venerated YZF-R6. What did they do on that regard? Nothing? | ||
| Ski25r |
I have faith in Buell. I am sure they realize the damage unreliability can do to a brand name. Look how long Ducati has been plagued with reliability and cost of maintenance issues. It almost ended them. Most of the issues I have read about here come down to the quality of individual parts. I am almost positive Buell is working with the individual part manufactures to reduce defective parts delivered or are looking for alternate manufacturers to provide the quality/quantity of parts within the requested time constraints. Japanese bike manufactures do not just make bikes. They own and manufacture almost every part on their brand of bike. If they have a problem with a batch of ECM’s they send an engineer down from their microelectronic division to fix the problem. Buell is forced to pick up the phone and complain to a sales manager. Please be careful about comparing a great personal brand with growing pains to mass distributed Jap bikes. | ||
| New12r |
Ya gotta dig the way YAMAHA handled the fire bombing fuel tanks of their venerated YZF-R6. What did they do on that regard? Nothing? Fixed it for ya Blake!! I know they all look the same anyway! | ||
| Court |
No time to debate and argue the issues. . .that is nuts on accurate and Blake COULD NOT have summed it up better.
All well within the ability of the folks at Buell. In fact . . . I'm already drawing Visio diagrams of the logic.  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
What "SEVERE" consequences? regarding 50% more oil in the engine. Blake, do you know for a fact that running 50% too much oil in this engine is okay? Or is this just something to deflect the fact that BMC fell flat on it's face regarding this issue. It was downright embarrassing to tell people that the factory doesn't know the proper method to check for proper oil level. In case it has been lost, I do love this bike & I do generally buy into the whole Buell concept. However, I feel that BMC has been way too slow to address shortcomings & communication from BMC has been atrocious. | ||
| New12r |
50% more oil in a dry sump is nothing compared to 10% too much oil in a wet sump. | ||
| Blake |
"However, I feel that BMC has been way too slow to address shortcomings & communication from BMC has been atrocious." You don't say! You should find an Buell forum and endlessly crusade that point of view right into the ground.  What severe consequences? Share your intimate knowledge and describe the severe consequences you imagine? imagine. Someone put 4-1/2 quarts in their 1125R?  If someone actually did do that, then they weren't even following the incorrect procedure in their owner's manual, and they sure as heck weren't heeding the stated 3 quart capacity. The difference between the two procedures is more on the order of a pint. | ||
| Blake |
Thank you Charles (New12R) sir. Zac also caught my Yamaha-Suzuki mixup right-off. I told him I needed to display irrefutable proof of my fallibility every now and again.  | ||
| Court |
>>>>>The difference between the two procedures is more on the order of a pint. Oh no Mr. Bill! If . . . and I know I am dreaming here. . . I ever get to the point where putting a pint too much oil in my motorcycle represents the sum total of the things in my life I am doing wrong . . . . Nah . . can't happen . . . I'm the guy who filled the Buell test mule, while stuck in a snowstorm in rural Kansas, with diesel. I'm still emotionally scarred from the abuse the Buell techs dealt me. Can you hear it in my voice? Reparations . . . .yeah, I want reparations. | ||
| Two_buells |
 Its a Motorcycle!  Go Ride! this thread makes me  Court, you hearing voices Two? TB out, riding..........  1200 miles, bike is running great! | ||
| Bobup |
"Interestingly, we recently learned that the 1125R owner's manual, you know that thing that new owners are supposed to read when they purchase the bike, specifically instructs 1125R owners to power-down the bike by first turning the kill switch to off followed by the ignition key. " and why should it be "required" to "kill" the engine before turning the ignition off? Do you have a "kill" switch in your automobile? Off is off, and if there was still a current draw just because the "kill" was not used says that off is not really off....its just kidding |
