| Author | Message | ||
     Egille |
Hey, I'm starting a post here because it's more appropriate in this forum. I just got my '00 M2 back together (replaced primary chain tensioner) and my clutch would not disengage. Here's what I've done thus far. I bought both the service manual and parts manual, installed a new clutch cable, pulled the adjusting screw assembly (inspected and reinstalled), pulled (inspected and reinstalled) clutch release ramp, and adjusted primary chain to within specs. After all this was done I adjusted the clutch per service manual instructions. Despite having done this the clutch will not disengage. I can roll the bike in neutral. With the rear of the bike suspended, I can turn the rear tire, but no resistance drop is noticed with clutch cable pulled or static. I've tried readjusting everything and have reinspected all above stated items, but to no avail. Any ideas? Thanks in advance. Erik | ||
| Egille |
Update: I can get the bike rolling w/o the motor turning over by pulling the clutch and pushing the bike real hard. As soon as I let out the clutch, the bike cannot be pushed at all. The bike ran fine before minus the F'd up primary adjuster... | ||
| Bad_karma |
Erik Was the chain adjuster all in one piece? When mine failed on the S1 bits of plastic found it's way into the tranny. Can you get a picture of the clutch without the ramps and balls in place. Looking for the C-clip for the adjuster that actuates the pressure plate. Joe  | ||
| Egille |
The adjuster was completely destroyed on mine. There was platic everywhere. I cleaned out what I could but didn't get everything. I'll take a picture of it tonight and get it up on the board. Does the plastic get caught between the plates or what? What kind of work will I be looking at if this is the case? When I pulled the adjusting screw assembly, I reinstalled it using that C-clip and made sure it was seated well by pressing on it with a small screw driver. I can see oil being pushed out of the little fingers that sit on the outside of the clutch basket, around the adjusting screw assembly, but I'm not sure they're moving enough. The basket only seems to move about a quarter inch at most... Also, there is a lot of noise from the primary drive area... (Message edited by egille on April 18, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
"The adjuster was completely destroyed on mine. There was platic everywhere. I cleaned out what I could but didn't get everything." Sounds like you need to at least pull the clutch plates and inspect each plate (surfaces and splines), the basket splines, the mainshaft spines, and clean out any debris. | ||
| Egille |
Alright, here's the progress thus far. I removed the clutch basket and it is caked with crap. Looks like rust almost, but I bet it's shrapnel from the plastic tensioner. I compressed the spring, and the disks didn't even move. Looks like I'll need new clutches and plates, or maybe just a good cleaning of the inside. I need to take a closer look tomorrow. I don't have a spring compressor but my buddy does, and maybe the HD shop will too. Anyhow, thanks for all the help. Erik (Message edited by egille on April 19, 2008) | ||
| Egille |
Does anyone have any good ideas about what kind of solvent I can use on the inside of the case to clean out the oil and the plastic pieces? I was thinking of using electrical parts cleaner (the canned stuff) to clean everything out, being that it evaporates quickly and doesn't damage rubber or plastic. Thanks in advance. Erik | ||
| Bad_karma |
Erik Something to consider, there is a spring plate in you clutch assembly that will fail, now that I think of it this could be the problem. You can remove it and replace it with extra plates, don't remember the exact combo been awhile. I used brake cleaner when I cleaned mine out. Joe | ||
| Blake |
Erik, I think once you can take a closer look at the clutch parts, you'll have a better idea of what might be the best approach. Good luck and let us know what you find. Photos are good. I've never seen rusty looking gunk on a cluth before. | ||
| Egille |
Well here's what I've found thus far: The diaphragm spring had sludge caked between it and the pressure plate. The clutch disks and steel plates were totally covered in sludge. The internal spring doesn't look like it has much spring left in it. The splines look great, there's not a lot of play in any bearings, and all of the gears in the transmission look awesome. There is a bit of wear on the ring gear that the started engages on, but I've seen worse. The only other bad thing I've noticed, is there is rust developing on the clutch basket, but only in non-functional areas. I'm cleaning it off now with a wire brush and solvent. The last owner told me he did not start it for about a year and he had left it low on primary/trans fluid. I bet that all the oil dripped off the basket and spots of rust began forming. I cleaned it last night and left it out for maybe 10 minutes to dry and rust was already forming on the basket's steel portions. Anyways, if you guys have any thoughts or suggestions on clutch sets and where I can buy a new internal spring plate or, as bad karma insinuated, a clutch kit that eliminates it all together, I'm all ears... Later. Erik | ||
| Jackbequick |
You don't want to replace the spring plate, that is the piece that is prone to failure and contributes little or nothing good. If you can find a bike shop or person that has some used plates laying around or a take off clutch plate set, you can replace the spring plate with one friction plate and two steel plates (someone correct me if I'm not remembering that right). The clutch plates are really very durable unless grossly abused or there is a major increase in HP. People have had them last 150,000 miles or so with reasonalbe use. Put a tag in the wanted section, maybe someone has some laying around. I bought a used set of plates on eBay for $10 and got three spring plate replace sets of it. Kept one and gave the other two away here to fellow BadWebbers. Jack | ||
| Egille |
I will probably just buy the set. I figure I may as well, that way I know they won't be a problem. I have to replace the diaphragm spring anyways so what the hey... right? Thanks for the answer on the inner spring, Jack. You guys are the best. Erik (Message edited by egille on April 21, 2008) | ||
| Jackbequick |
You can get what they call the extra plate set, that set has the plates to make up for leaving the spring plate out. Or you could get a regular set and use some of your old plates to make up for it. The spring plate is supposed to help the clutch plates free up a little better when the clutch is pulled in, to lessen gear clash on a cold transmission and from a stop I think. But if it fails and starts coming apart (seems to happen at 30,000 to 50,000 miles or so), the little pieces of the flat springs and rivets can cause some secondary damage to gears and bearings in the transmission. Jack | ||
| Mikej |
I might not make you happy with what I'm about to suggest, but it might be the best thing to do at this point. Since you've already got things opened up and partly taken apart, and since you see some significant issues with the clutch, it might be prudent for you to also pull the tranny out and clean and lube that up really well. Then check your 5th gear bearing on the far right end of things, ask Reep and a few others why this might be prudent to do at this time. Then also pull and check your stator and wiring, and chamfer or slightly bend the little clamping plate that secures the stator wiring to the engine case. Doing this will ensure you don't have additional bits of debris floating around in your tranny just waiting for you to be running deep into a corner in 4th gear only to lodge in the gear and send you into a wheel-locked slide into the brush. This will also give you a nice clean starting point with the engine and tranny as a baseline for hopefully many happy miles. Per your profile you have an M2, so take advantage of the trapdoor tranny setup. | ||
| S2pengy |
The clutch plates were used on the Harley Big Twins for a few years and if you shop around can be found for cheap.... | ||
| Egille |
I've checked out the bearings and I've tested the stator already. No troubles thus far. I'm way to curious to just leave accessable bolts alone. My buddy just had his 06 Sporty apart and thank god for the trapdoor on mine. Everything looks Kosher. I think that running the primary almost dry did it's number on the clutches. We'll see tomorrow night. Erik | ||
| Bad_karma |
Erick Along the lines of Mikej once you get this thing back together lean it over to the right over night. This should get some oil back into the fifth gear bearing. Joe | ||
| Egille |
Well, I decided to install a Barnett clutch pack. It has all the frictions and steels needed, plus a release spring mated to the clutch hub. It was a nice kit and I got it for 100 bucks from the local shop (good guy discount.) I also decided to install a heavy duty diaphragm spring because mine had some pitting in it. I soaked the clutches and installed the pack, but haven't torqued anything yet or installed the cover yet. Tomorrow I'll get the rest done and test ride it. Erik |
