| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
If MotoGP feels the need to have an American rider than the onus is on them to get one. It is not on us to groom one. MotoGP doesn't need US riders at all, but if there aren't any (and no interest from US spectators) then the US GP will be a short lived affair. Why should the onus be on the championship to get anyone interested? MotoGP is seen as the best in the world, and they can fill factory rides and team places every week with people waiting in the wings without having to look around for more riders. As for Rossi & Co racing in AMA, why should they? At the end of the day the AMA series is just another well paid domestic Superbike championship. It would make more sense for Rossi to race in the Japanese Superbike series or even the British one, given the popularity over here compared to the US. Mat Mladin chooses to stay in the well paid and relatively safe position he enjoys in the US Superbike series. If he thought he could beat Rossi & co then he knows where he has to go to race them ;) Schummi should come over here and race NASCARs with Montoya, then they should all go try their hand at the Baja 1000. The problem is that nobody outside of the US is really interested in Nascar (or oval racing period) or desert racing. | ||
| Azxb9r |
The problem is that nobody outside of the US is really interested in Nascar Some of us in the US are not very interested in it either. I did think it was funny the way Montoya gave those boys a driving lesson on the road coarse though.  Back on to topic, I don't see anybody in moto gp voluntarily going somewhere else. If you have the opportunity to compete in what is considered to be the pinnacle of your sport, why would you want to do anything else? | ||
| José_quiñones |
BTW, there is a way for U.S. kids to follow the first part of the path Matt mentions while staying in the US, www.usgpru.com. USGPRU races mostly in conjuction with ASRA/CCS events, but they did have two races with the AMA in Utah and Road Atlanta last year. It's possible that the new AMA Pro Racing management might pursue additional combined dates in the future. I'm sure usgpru will try to make their best presentation to them. Peter, The reason for calling it "Superbike Lites" is as a nod to Supercross where fans are already familiar with the term. Somewhat like Heavyweight Superbike vs Lightweight Superbike at CCS races. (Message edited by José_quiñones on March 13, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
It ain't the bike that gets the rider to MotoGP. I think if NASCAR were smarter, they'd break the long race into two shorter races. Those long races are impossible to stay awake for, but the start and finish laps are usually pretty darn entertaining. There is no closer racing anywhere. | ||
| Jlnance |
2 lap races? ;) | ||
| Aeholton |
I think if NASCAR were smarter, they'd break the long race into two shorter races. Those long races are impossible to stay awake for, but the start and finish laps are usually pretty darn entertaining. There is no closer racing anywhere. On longer tracks I agree. However, on short tracks like Bristol there is constant action. | ||
| Elvis |
Interesting blurb on Roadracing World regarding the Japanese reactions to some suggested changes: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=32002 | ||
| Blake |
To HECK with Suzuki then. They whined about the same thing in WSBK and came crawling back after the series continued to thrive without them and their fellow Japan Inc. cohorts who walked away in a similar dispute. Go Buell, and Aprilia, BMW, Ducati, KTM, MV Augusta, Triumph, and any others who are willing to compete on a level playing field! | ||
| Blake |
Go Daytona Motorsports Group! It's about time! | ||
| Azxb9r |
What are the proposed changes? Will it be "levelling the playing field" or will it be something aimed strictly at ending Suzukis dominance? Keeping the competition fair is a good thing, handicapping a competitor is not. It will be interesting to see what changes go into effect. | ||
| Blake |
No handicapping, spec tires and new classes. Read the article? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Japan Inc is pi&&ed. I'm liking the new AMA racing organization more already  | ||
| Jetbuilder |
I would like to get in on this for a moment. Living in the South and having been raised on the dirt tracks and super speedways of Georgia and NC I can tell you that what Nascar is now is not what is was 20 years ago. It is very much an international motor sport now,they have had a heavy influx of foreign drivers as of late and have been doing"Exibition" races in Japan and have talked about adding a Race in Mexico city due too the very high turn out at the races done there so far. Nascar is in my humble opinion and I have heard this stated on the Speed channel by Dave Dispain is the Highest revenue earning series in the world with the highest percentage of ticket sales and sales of associated items in the world. Can I prove it No but just look at the Grandstand at a NASCAR race compared to any other race series short of the Indy 500 or Moto GP in Europe. They are packed by comparison! That is one reason why I don`t go anymore I can not afford it. But lets see the MOTO ST/Daytona Prototype race this month at VIR and the Super bike Race in Aug compared to 1 Race at Chartlotte,or even our beloved "Daytona 200" look at the empty seats during our races and the lack of seats at a NASCAR event at the same track with much of the same fan base. AMA is smart getting in bed with NASCAR because in the end it is a business and NASCAR sells | ||
| Azxb9r |
Read the article? The linked article said that the proposed changes included a couple new classes, spec fuel, and tires. It did not give any details though. I have mixed emotions about using spec tires, but I doubt that is what has Suzuki ruffled. I would like to know more about the proposed changes before I cast judgement on a competitors response. | ||
| Elvis |
To HECK with Suzuki then. They whined about the same thing in WSBK and came crawling back after the series continued to thrive without them and their fellow Japan Inc. cohorts who walked away in a similar dispute. Go Buell, and Aprilia, BMW, Ducati, KTM, MV Augusta, Triumph, and any others who are willing to compete on a level playing field! You said it! And then there's Benelli, Moto Guzzi, Bimota . . . Fischer, Roehr, Motoczysz. . . I'd be a lot more interested in seeing a racing series that can get bikes like that out on the grid than just seeing the same old, same old. . . . and there's certainly no shortage of manufacturers who would like to show their bikes off in the premier racing series in the US (I'm not sure of the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet the US is the single largest market for motorcycles in the world). I LOVE the idea of spec. tires, because we've seen that tires are a huge variable, and since racers are running completely different tires than street riders anyhow, I like the idea of eliminating that variable and putting more on the machines and riders. I'm not as thrilled with the idea of horsepower limited series (and based on Edmondson's history, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see that - though there's nothing in the article about that detail), because I like the idea of manufacturers getting as much power our of certain configurations as possible and horsepower limitations would reduce the incentive for manufacturers to maximize engine performance. I really like the way FX has allowed such diverse configurations to compete. I'd like to see something like that applied to the big boys (WSBK and current AMA Superbike have taken a step in that direction with the 1200 twins) . . . though there's nothing in this brief article to hint anything like that is in the works. Anyone have any ideas what they might mean by 600 Superbike? I wonder how that would differ from Superstock or Supersport. Would that imply that current Superbike would be eliminated? I certainly hope that's not true. I can't see why the Japanese would be upset by a 600 Superbike no matter what it means. They have a monopoly on 600's, don't they? I'd hope it would include other configurations like FX, but the name would certainly imply 600cc bikes. The article really raises more questions than answers, but I think in the case of the AMA, change is good. . . . and the fact that Moto ST will be included would indicate Buell will have a presence in the AMA next year no matter what happens with the other classes (and I strongly suspect the other classes will be structured in ways that will also allow Buell participation . . . why else would the Japanese be so angry?)} | ||
| Reepicheep |
The more I think about it, the more I think HP limited might be a good thing all around. The peak HP limit will still be higher then a street bike can use (or probably even legally achieve). I think we are past the point where HP is a limitation for todays street bikes. The HP limit will be a peak limit though, so the manufactures will still have a lot to gain by giving the bike a better power curve, i.e. more HP at lower RPMS. Thats where todays sportbikes need the most help. An R6 will *kill* my XB9SX in terms of peak horsepower... but you have to rev the thing out to 10k RPM to get there. From idle to 4000 RPM, an R6 is probably comparable to my KLR-250.  Unlimited HP seems to inevitably lead to really just a money race. Who can afford the most frequent rebuilds and the most unobtanium. Even the "stock" bikes have been completely taken apart and blueprinted and put back together. I would like a cost limited class, on a street oriented course (like the streets of willow)). Seeing which "best bang for the buck" bikes spend the most time on the podium would be great fun. Have a 0 - $5000 class, a $5000 to $8000 class, an $8000 to $11000 class, $11000 to $15000 class, a $15000 to $20000 class, and an unlimited $$ class. Cost of the bike and costs of mods including labor would be audited, and there would be a claiming rule. Now *that'd* be some racing... A 1995 GSXR750 with suspension work mixing it up with a 2000 SV-1000, a 2000 Honda F4i, and an 03 XB9R... all in the sub $5000 class. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Formula Extreme = 600 Superbike | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I agree with most of whats been said here so far but will add this for consideration; The one big thing NASCAR has done besides bring racing to a grand level is to keep competition on a level plain by having almost all technology even with the same engine specs., uniform bodies, brakes, etc. Now this definetely makes it a drivers race but engine, body and other technology gets stagnant. Thats the one thing I do not like about this form of racing. I like F1 cars and bikes for this reason. It promotes competition and each year some factory out does the other and things move forward just like the space race has done. Advancement in H.P. is only one item but many inovations we use everyday on the street has come out of this type of racing. And I'm still glad for the money, advertising and interest that NASCAR will bring us riders. Bob | ||
| Elvis |
Thanks José! If they did Formula X-Treme (600 Superbike), Moto-ST and Superbike (pretty much as is - following rules very similar to WSBK) . . . and then just stopped there, I think that would be a GREAT line-up. Three very distinct, very unique races and not a lot of clutter ( I always thought it was crazy for AMA to basically have 3 different 600 classes ). | ||
| Azxb9r |
engine, body and other technology gets stagnant. Thats the one thing I do not like about this form of racing. I like F1 cars and bikes for this reason. It promotes competition and each year some factory out does the other and things move forward My thoughts exactly. Having classes with H.P. or cost limits is good for helping the weekend warriors get a chance to compete, but at the top you want to encourage technology. A "superbike" should be just that. Regulate fuel choices, put limits on engine size, but allow each competitor to run as much H.P. as they can produce. There is only so much power that you can actually use, so it is sort of self limiting... especially if you have no traction control. | ||
| Mutation_racer |
sound like they just don't want us to race with them. TO BAD. Also sound like their just a bit scared of the 1125R. There's no stopping buell now. | ||
| Odinbueller |
Red, I think you've got the right idea! This is going to propel Buell to a new level. And I am positive that Buell will be involved in a sponsorship capacity overall in this deal. Finally, Buell will get some appropriate airtime! | ||
| Bads1 |
If the new AMA is going to push to make MOTO-ST a big thing. Does that mean that in time bigger name racers and factory team's take over and we see less and less grass roots dealer teams and small privateer teams compete. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
I don't think so Dana. The Moto-ST classes are spec'd out by weight and horsepower. Tires are spec, fuel is spec. Heck, even the kinds of tools you can use in the pit is specified in the rules (no air or hydraulic, only battery powered). I look forward to seeing a level playing field in AMA racing. | ||
| Bads1 |
I understand that Indy. Also that is in alot of way's exactly like Nascar. Weight,a certain fuel,HP,etc,etc. Nacar evolved and so can MOTO-ST. Things materialize and change. All form's of racing change even year to year. Even Nascar adopts new rules and they can be costly for race teams to adapt to. Do I think its great they may level the playing field??? Yeah I do but that doesn't mean everyone is allowed to play either. | ||
| Elvis |
I think it's safe to say that if Roger Edmondson is able to do what he wants - to elevate the AMA with more sponsorship money and better exposure while rolling Moto ST into the AMA - the class will grow, manufacturers and teams will invest more to win, big name racers will be involved . . . etc. That can be both a blessing and a curse. A curse from the point of view that it's fun to see those grass-roots riders and teams out there now mixing it up . . . but aren't all those grass-roots teams and riders dreaming of something bigger? I can't speak for Anthony and other riders who are competing, but I'd guess rather than thinking: "I hope this series stays small so I can always be competitive." many are thinking: "I hope this class gets big so I can be standing on the podium at a major road-race." If it was a sudden change and all of the people who competed last year were suddenly cut out then, yes, that would be a terrible thing, but I see it happening as more of an evolution. I see the better, more serious riders and teams growing with the series. The ones who can't compete will be dropping by the wayside, but isn't that what racing is all about? | ||
| Elvis |
Wow! Huge news guys. The 1125R will be eligible for AMA "Superbike" next year. http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=32533 My feelings are a little mixed. On one hand, I should be thrilled. This means Buell should be competitive right out of the box. I'm sure Edmondson is doing that on purpose to get Harley and Buell fans out to the races. . . . but won't most people see this as the Buell "cheating". All bikes will be limited to 140 HP, so it won't have any advantage there, but clearly it is the largest displacement bike of the field. I was sort of hoping a next generation XBRR would compete in that class and the 1125R could compete in "Literbikes". | ||
| Mark61 |
I have not been following this forum much. Now that I read over what has been talked about 1 thing sticks out to me. DMS is in business to make money for DMS-NOT the AMA! Unless the contract between the 2 says name leasing price is related to profits all DMS is doing is leasing the name. Just like a business does with a store or chain name. Don't look for the AMA to get rich along side DMS. Plus as Jetbuilder said "I can't afford to go to Nascar races anymore". $$$$$$ Having said that I sincerely hope they are able to build up the motorcycle racing interest in America here. Hopefully that would translate to more awareness of us on the roads! mark61 | ||
| Blake |
Mat, Long overdue rebuttal to your comments. "MotoGP doesn't need US riders at all... Why should the onus be on the championship to get anyone interested?" If MotoGP/Dorna Sports is in business to make a profit--they absolutely are--and if American television viewers and spectators comprise a portion of the market, and if having ALL of the world's best motorcycle road racing talent represented in MotoGP/Dorna Sports, then MotoGP/Dorna Sports darn sure do have a very compelling reason to want American participation in MotoGP. "MotoGP ... can fill factory rides and team places every week with people waiting in the wings without having to look around for more riders." If filling the grid was the only requirement to generate profit, you'd have a point, but what generates a profit is the audience, the market that MotoGP/Dorna Sports is able to reach. | ||
| Elvis |
Looks like Buell will be racing Literbike (assuming they choose to). Horsepower limited at 185 with extensive modifications allowed. So the engine they're developing for Steve Crevier should be eligible. I have a funny feeling the had an idea this was going to happen and they're getting a head start in Canada. . . . and Crevier will have some experience on the 1125R, so I'd guess he'll have a spot if he's interested. So it looks like we will likely have Buells in all three major classes of AMA racing. It's the start new era! http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=32580 |
