| Author | Message | ||
     Dre99gsx |
Anyone here try knee sliding in a smooth parking lot by continously sliding in a circle? Can this be done in 2nd gear and what MPH would be ideal? I remember trying to get my knee down and confidence on the 1125R at Pocono, but no matter how far I stuck out my leg and thought I leaned over, I had no idea how close to the ground I was. Would be nice to do this with a camera rolling on the ground to get an idea of how your technique looks. | ||
| Brad1445 |
I'm taking insurance out on you.  | ||
| Spatten1 |
If you keep doing track days at 80% speed, you will get better and faster, and it will just happen. I imagine riding small circles in a parking lot will eventually result in vomiting and dizziness. | ||
| Dre99gsx |
Brad, keep it on the DL ;) I would like to do it on the track, just not up to drilling and wiring every damn bolt on my bike just for 1 hour track time... | ||
| Cat3 |
I've done this on the Hayabusa, and haven't picked up a R yet. However, it is very possible. I wouldn't use 2d gear unless your in a larger circle and keep the rpm's up, just like you'd want to on a track. Rather than circles, I would prefer to roll in a straight line, scrub the entry speed and lean it over into the "first turn" leaning it around for a 90* or more turn, then stand her up and ride her out clean. This can be done on both sides, and is more comfortable for some riders than repetitive circles. GL. Charlie | ||
| Spatten1 |
You don't need to safety wire for track days until you are in the expert class. You just remove or tape up all glass. | ||
| Baggermike |
Hey Guys what is the difference in track days and going to school so I can do track days, do I need to go to school, and how many days do they run track days, I am so anxious to get this bike on a track and see what I can do. Mike | ||
| Dre99gsx |
Spatten1, for the 1125r, do you need a Belly Pan? Checking NESBA.com they suggest it for inspection. | ||
| Interex2050 |
As Scott (Spatten1) mentioned, just tape up the glass bits. There is not much more you need to do to a bike for a trackday. At least not around here... Of coarse the bike should be clean and working properly. No race school needed... Track days are hosted often, and by different organizations all of which have their own "methods". The key is go out there and have fun, you are not racing anyone | ||
| Spatten1 |
NESBA did not require me to have a belly pan for my XB in the Intermediate class. People run stock fairings. They may suggest or require water or water-wetter in place of antifreeze, because it cleans up easily and does not create slick spots on the track. I'd check that. | ||
| Spatten1 |
The majority of the Intermediate class riders are on track only bikes that do have belly pans in their race fairing. However, there are always people like me with their street bike and taped up glass and signals. | ||
| Baggermike |
That is all I want to do is have fun and do track days and thought I had to go to school to attend them, I wrote the school about this and they have not written back, I still want to go to school but if I do not have the money then just doing a track day would be good, what do you have to wear for track days a zip together suit or just leathers with padding, I do not make allot of money and things are going slow. Mike | ||
| Andella |
Here is a related link to check out.... http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults /videos/2007/september/sep0607GettingYourKneeDown/ ?&R=EPI-94353 | ||
| Nickcaro |
next time you're in the city come try it at Columbus Circle.  | ||
| Surlypacer |
Getting your knee down isn't hard. Performance bike did an article on it. Most of the photos you see its all show. I put my knee down all the time at 40mph. Best is to hang one butt cheek off the bike and your knee out. Keep you torso over the bike. Lean the bike while trying to keep you upper torso level. I found "thinking" push down out out with the handle bars pushes the bike over. I found the on and off ramp to a highway work well. If there is no oil on them, and use 90 degree turns that require speed around 30mph. Don't look down. Always look through the turn. Just keep repeating the turn building you speed up. The first day I got my xb12 I went out found a 90 degree and got a knee down. What your really doing is change your center of gravity. The further you lean off a bike the less it has to lean. | ||
| Spike |
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| Surlypacer |
Wow cool video i own a fxdx. I'm going outside right now and try that!!!  | ||
| New12r |
Nesba sux.... I will not participate with a group that forces me to run Novice until they deem otherwise... I took my old firebolt to a parking lot and in first gear rode a Figure 8, eventually you will find you can lean real far with little speed. It is all about momentum! | ||
| Baggermike |
I came up with this idea when visiting my grandmother in the hospital, she had a window room to the back and I seen a huge parking lot and then I thought what a good place to practice riding, if my son or I wipe out we are right were we need to be, a hospital, this might no go over big with hospital security but it is a thought and I am going to try it with my son so I can teach and show him how to ride, plus practice my own riding skills. I got a DVD called ride like a pro and the one thing he said is to practice what we know every week for a half hour, also to practice stopping from the highest speed we travel, now this is hard to do, I do not know were to go to hit 80 mph and then stop as fast as I can, I think this is good advice but finding a place to hit 80 and then stop is going to be hard to find. Mike | ||
| Blublak |
Mike, Team Pro Motion adds their 'basic' school to your first track day. It's mandatory that you learn the basics of track riding and since it's a different mind set to street riding is quite a good thing. After that, you ride whatever dates with them you'd like at any one of several tracks they operate out of - including; Calabogie, NJMP (2 tracks), Pocono (4 tracks), BeveRun, Summit Point (2 Tracks) and Virginia International Raceway (3 tracks) - I ride with them as do a few other Buell folks and it's always nice to not be the 'only one' .. hehehehehe... Also, a lot of track orgs seem to be focused on racing. While there is a lot of racing oriented stuff with TPM, Glen the owner, has told me that he's just trying to provide a FUN environment so if you don't want to be a racer and just have fun, then come out and have fun and be as safe as you can riding fast. PM for more info if you're looking at coming a little south and doing a day or three.. | ||
| Chadhargis |
NESBA never made me ride in novice. I signed up for intermediate and that's where I've been since. If I want a bump, then I can line up in the left lane in pit out at the beginning of the session. This lets the control riders know that I want to be considered for a "bump" to advanced group. You can also ask one of them if you can get a bump. They'll gladly follow you around and either recommend you for a bump or not. If you're riding in Novice and you're really an intermediate skilled rider, just ask for a bump. It's that simple. As for dragging a knee, well, in my opinion you have to understand WHY your doing it first. If it's just to look cool, then I'd rethink your motives. Dragging a knee serves a purpose. For me it does two things: 1) Gives me proof that I'm moving off the bike enough. I tend to get lazy, especially in the later sessions when I'm tired, and I don't move around like I should. If I am making contact with my knee, then I know I'm moving off the seat enough to transfer the center of gravity (CG) to the inside of the turn which allows you to go around the turn with less lean angle at a given speed than if you were sitting bolt upright. This is important because it keeps more of the "meat" of your tires on the tarmac and keeps hard parts off the ground. 2) Gives me a feel for my lean angle. When my knee hits I keep it relaxed and let it get pushed up. Once my toe slider starts hitting or my leg is mashed into the bike, I know I'm pretty much at max lean angle (or close to it). This happens because I've either come in faster than I did before, or I'm taking a tighter line. Either way, it lets me know what's going on. I always try to keep my head and eyes level, so one of the ways for me to determine lean angle is with my knee. Ok...I'm getting long winded....so let me NOW answer your question. If you want to get a knee down. This is what you do. 1) RELAX! Don't support yourself with the bars. Use your outside thigh to "lock in" to the tank. If you hang on to the bars, and happen to slip off the bike a bit, then you'll put steering input into the bars...not good at large lean angles. 2) Once you are relaxed and have a hold on the tank with your outside leg, move your butt off the seat inside the turn. Move your upper body, forward, down, and to the inside. Pretend you're trying to "kiss the mirror". Don't twist your body to accomplish this. Move off the seat. Yes, it will feel funny. Yes, you will think you're going to fall off, but the cornering force will keep you planted as well as your "leg lock" on the tank. 3) Now, stick your knee out. Did it hit? If not, stick it WAY out? Did it hit? Speed up and lean more. Practice makes perfect. Just keep trying. When I first hit my knee, I didn't know what it was. I heard a "hissing" sound, but didn't feel much because the big thick knee pucks pretty much won't let you feel much (you DO have pucks don't you? If not, get some! LOL!). It wasn't until I got back to the pit that I noticed my puck was scraped.  See how my body is well to the inside of the turn. I'm not "twisting" my body. It's actually shifted off the seat. My shoulders are still square with the front of the bike, but my head and eyes are pointing where I want to go. In this particular picture, you can see how I'm using my knee as a "lean indicator". I'm not anywhere near max lean angle (notice how far my toes are from the tarmac) and my knee isn't actually on the ground yet, but when my knee hits, I allow it to fold up. I don't put any weight on it. I just use it like a feeler. Hope my lengthy post helped. | ||
| Towjam |
Knee draggin' is for pussies. Us Texas boys like to drag our elbows! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1UlEQtdUGc (Message edited by towjam on April 03, 2008) | ||
| Spatten1 |
NESBA pisses quite a few people off. They will not bump you for going fast alone. You have to be smooth and demonstrate good passing. This drives many people away. It is a bit if a PITA, but it makes for a more predictable and safe environment. I was going fast in Beginner with them, but had to improve my form before they would bump me. So I did and they did. It was frustrating, but I can say that the Intermediate class is much more predictable and consistent with NESBA than with Pro Motion. NESBA is not for everyone, they can be very controlling and that pisses many fast guys off. | ||
| Rotchcrocket51 |
"Fast" doesn't always mean "Safe" and NESBA's stated purpose is to provide a safe alternative to riding fast on the street. You can be blazing fast on the track and be riding on the ragged edge. Doing that, you are a hazard to others and yourself. On March 10, 2008, I was working station four at NESBA's event on the north course at VIR. When flagging at that station, you have a great opportunity to observe rider technique. In the first Beginner session, I noticed a race-prepped XB. It had full body work, chain drive, etc. and was running number 39. Some of you may know the rider. I don't who it was but it didn't take me long to notice that he was a very good rider. He observed the rules of the class and continued to ride well. On the second session after lunch, he had been bumped to the Intermediate group. He continued to do well in that group and on the last session of the day, he was riding in the Advanced group. Once in that group, with it's open passing rules, he continued to do well. This guy was fast and he was smooth and consistent. You don't have to be fast to get bumped with NESBA but you do have to observe the rules of the class you are riding in and be courteous, smooth and consistent. I started riding with NESBA in 2000 on my M-2. I was bumped to Intermediate the next spring while riding my RC-51. During my years in that group, I rode the RC and the Buell. I was bumped to the Advanced group in 2004 and celebrated by riding the M-2 in my first session in the Advanced class. The point I am trying to make is that you don't have to have a blazing fast bike or be a blazing fast rider to ride and enjoy an event with NESBA. | ||
| Dre99gsx |
Well, as long sa NESBA is teaching you what to do right when your doing something wrong, and work with you to improve, I would rather have "proper form" before moving up. If they just mock you and don't try to help you (personal attention), then I hear ya... As for knee sliding, I had tried hard with the 1125r to drag the knee. Why? I wanted to feel satisfied that I'm taking the corners at a lean angle that is close to MAX. When attempting to drag the knee, if your speed is consistent and you are leaned way over, where is the limit if you still haven't dragged knee? Are the pegs scraping your sign? Toe scraping? I'm afraid of leaning too much before the bike slips under me. I was pretty darn sure I was leaning off the bike, not just twisted. There were a few turns where I tried "harder" to stick out my legt, thinking It wasn't out there enough. It later dawned on me that because of other bikers behind me, pressure, and the fact that I probably wasn't going fast enough and had a bad line, that it just wasn't going to happen. | ||
| Sethbuchbinder |
The only advise for getting a knee down it to do lots of track days and focus on body position and keeping your CG low. Aggressive street riding is dangerous enough when your focusing 100% on the road and worse when one worries about weather or not there knee is dragging. At home, if you have a pit stand, put the bike on it and have a friend give a little extra support on the front while you climb around the bike moving from side to side getting comfortable with the positions and sliding off the seat. sounds hokey, but its effective. At the track, focus on positioning yourself the same way and running smooth lines and before you know it, your speed will increase and your knee will make contact. Its primarily there as a lean angle gage. and makes for nice pictures. On that sub topic, Most of the track day organizations require you to start in the beginner group and evaluated for promotion to more advanced groups. This is a good practice for the benefit of all the riders who participate. The people in charge of the track day don’t know the competency level of street or track riding that each new participant brings to the event. some may be able to ride in the most advanced from past experience with other clubs while others may be "fast" street riders with no track experience at all who are in for a rude awakening when they actually see what "fast" riding is and can be for them. The problems arise when people with limited experience are allowed to ride on track without supervision(coaches or control riders). The experienced riders tend to carry far more corner speed and run much more predictable lines. The newer riders are usually fast on the strait and tend to park in the corners and rarely ride predictable lines. These inconsistent lines and differences in speed cause incidents on track. To avoid this the event organizers evaluate riders and promote as needed to create the most uniform groups of riders. Also, the passing rules (usually no inside passing or only pass on straits) that are enforced for beginner/intermediate groups are very helpful and important for the safety of less experienced riders. Being passed on the inside of a corner can startle new riders easily and is appropriately left for only advanced groups. Since the majority of track day riders are just out there to have fun, I feel the organizational methods employed by most track day clubs are appropriate and for the good of the group. Personally I have found that registering for the advanced group with clubs whose events I have never attended usually results in some questioning of experience. I usually tell them that I race and show my current CCS/ASRA race license and they usually let me start the day in advanced. Other times they insist on one session in intermediate with an evaluation by a staff member then allow the bump. Never a big deal. Go out and have lots of fun. Hey i just noticed that this thread has no pictures of Buell riders dragging knees! Thats very un BadWeb We can fix that...     Seth | ||
| Rubberdown |
Here Seth, but it's on my HP2 at Barber, not my Buell this time:  Here's my tip: keep the balls of your toes on the pegs and heels up to get the body geometry correct to get the knee down. I'm with Chad, it a good lean indicator, esp. when yer jugs are hangin. I think NESBA does a good job keeping the day fast and safe. (Message edited by rubberdown on April 04, 2008) | ||
| Mutation_racer |
seth, learned everything from me.HAHA, dre you need more track time. Ryan and moose are at pocono this weekend with TPM. and i think there is still openings left. | ||
| Blublak |
OK.. here's some thoughts.. I don't actually touch down my knee very much.. but at the same time I ride in the 'beginner' group. That said..  My last date at Summit Sheandoah a Blue (Advanced) group rider had bumped himself down to white since he had NEVER ridden that track before. I took that as a sign that this guy really knows his stuff. He spent several sessions with us, following a coach and learning the track. He even told me he spent half a session following me since I seemed to have a good line around the course. Funny thing, as we were chatting another rider came up to me and broke in - our conversation went something like this.. He - "Damn, I didn't think you were so fast." Me - "Uh, thanks.. ?" He - "All morning I've been going knee down through some of these turns and knew I was faster then just about everyone else.." Me - "Ok, cool." He - "But this last session, when you two went by me I knew it was on.. S**t you guys just started gapping me and I couldn't even keep up on the straight.. then you walked away from me and I lost you guys in traffic.. " Me - "Yeah, well, I've been here before and know the track a little better then you do I guess." Blue Group Rider - "Stop trying so hard to put a knee down and just work on smooth corners.. You want to carry more corner speed and be able to smoothly accelerate out don't worry about getting parts down, just worry about holding a little speed in the turns. Everything else will fall in place.." He - (to BGR)"You're going pretty good all of a sudden too.. You guys should go ask for a bump! I'm gonna get bumped soon.." BGR - "Don't be in too much of a rush, it'll happen when you're ready, if you try and rush it, you'll only end up hurting yourself." Me - "Been in this group for a while now, when they tell me to ride with the next one up, I'll do it.. Until then, I having fun." Or something to that extent. Having your knee down doesn't do anything for your speed really. As most have said, it's just a technique for reading lean angle. My riding has changed over time and most of the time, my knees not down in turns, but I'm smoother now and that is the secret to faster and safer.  For what it's worth.. 'He' went off a couple of times the next day on Main. One of those times, in the carousel he pulled right back on and I almost hit him (stood it up at apex and ended up going around him on the outer curbing - pucker - only ended up with a slight mud bath from him), I think it was his quest to keep his knee down and be 'fast' that kept him running off instead of learning how to cleaning make the turns and then work on slowly speeding up.. Man, if I'd ended up hitting him and wrecking my new 1125R.. I'd of had to really hurt him.. and if I couldn't (due to injury caused by him) I'd have to ask some BadWebbers to deliver the justice for me. (oops. sorry for the OT rant..  ) | ||
| Blublak |
See Seth, I even have a few of me knee down.. or at least close to it.. sort of..  |
