| Author | Message | ||
     Baggermike |
I Support Blake I called BMC and asked if they could answer one question and they took down my info and was called back by a BMC tech in two days, I had plenty of questions and got answers when the tech called and had me bring it to a close dealership to have the bike looked at, I was suppose to get papers at that only harley dealership and did not this was not a Buell mistake, I am no going to be sent the info from buell, I have one more test to do and after passing it then all is well. Mike | ||
| Fresnobuell |
How many 1125Rs with faulty electical/charging systems are you aware of, and how many as yet remain undiagnosed/unresolved? At least one. The only party that can answer that is BMC and we all know how forthcoming they have been with information. A full electrical system diagnosis for any and all 1125r owners should be offered by Buell. That shouldn't be a problem UNLESS they haven't isolated the issues OR they don't want to shell out the cash to do it, no? "I have logged my issues with Buell Customer Service & if the problem(s) are so isolated as you believe, then Buell should be contacting EVERY owner with said issues." That is some freakishly weird logic you have there. You had some trouble with your motorcycle, so Buell should inform all its customers? If you read it correctly, Buell should contact every owner WITH SAID ISSUES (if these problems are so isolated.) I would never expect BMC to contact all owners. IF IT IS JUST A FEW BAD PARTS HERE AND THERE, THEN WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG FOR BUELL TO ADDRESS THE ISSUES? | ||
| Court |
The coomunication with the dealers is pretty good. I'm, frankly more concerned about the recieving end of that dialouge than the transmitting end. Most of the things we've heard here were addressed promptly via HDnet. Part of the problem is that many dealers do a poor job of keeping abreast of updates. It has not taken Buell long to address this. Buell is working with dealers (it's a fool's pursuit for Buell to deal directly with customers and it's only done in rare circumstnaces . . dealers are THE delivery method for solutions) Buell can not contact every owner with "said issues" (which I think we've determined is less than a dozen of th 1125R's out there). The procedure is that the customer needs to make their dealer aware and in turn the dealer makes Buell aware. The system is currently working flawlessly in about 99% of the cases. A pissed off person is a poor candidate to prescribe proper procedures. | ||
| Buellborn |
Over the years of owning Buells I can say that their is more information on the web and faster than what the dealers have. Its frustrating from a customer standpoint. The lag on recalls etc may be weeks from the time a customer can read it on the net vs when a dealer knows it. | ||
| Court |
Don't worry . . . it's true all over. I recently joined a Porsche owners forum and was pleased to find, when I started, that the hot topics were lack of timely support from Porsche, failure to listen to owners about how the product should be marketed and lots of moaning about slow response from the dealers to questions about TSB. No surprise that they have an AWESOME area where they consolidate all the factory TSB, recalls and "owner fixes" for quick reference. This is the age of speedy info. One of the worst things a factory can try to do is to sacrifice accuracy by trying to beat the rumor mill in a cyber sprint to reach owners. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Most of the things we've heard here were addressed promptly via HDnet. THen my service manager is a flipping idiot then, because he claims that there is absolutely nothing on the electrical issues via HDnet. And IF the issue is isolated to just a couple dozen machines and IF Buell cares so much about its customers and the 1125r launch, what would be the problem of reassuring the people (WHO JUST DROPPED 12k on the greatest Buell ever made) with a little direct communication from the factory? again, let's not forget that the 1125r owner has made a rather large commitment to Buell with the purchase of the 1125r. It would be nice if Buell acted like it cares... | ||
| Court |
>>>THen my service manager is a flipping idiot An unfortunately common condition. | ||
| Court |
>>>with a little direct communication from the factory? Like the conversations that Mike and others have been having with the Buell techs or like all the owners that spent the last weekend with Flick? Although I think there is room for improvement . . . Buell is doing much better than the internet would lead one to believe. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
So Court, I can call my service mgr on Tuesday and state with 100% confidence that there are bulletins on HDnet that address some/all of the electrical issues? | ||
| Court |
Tell your dealer to call SPOC. (Message edited by court on March 30, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
"How many 1125Rs with faulty electical/charging systems are you aware of, and how many as yet remain undiagnosed/unresolved?" "At least one." Okay then. Let loose the hounds. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
How many 1125Rs with faulty electical/charging systems are you aware of, and how many as yet remain undiagnosed/unresolved?" "At least one." Okay then. Let loose the hounds. Just trying to follow your advice about concerning myself only with my bike, Blake. | ||
| Brad1445 |
Fresno I know when it's your own bike that one is too many. Dogs would be mild. I hope it's all cleared up soon for you. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Thanks, Brad. I know we don't see eye to eye on some things, but I appreciate the comment. My issues are relatively minor in comparison to others', so I am lucky I suppose in that regard. I really don't know the scope of the problem and I am not sure anyone does really, even the venerable BMC. Time will hopefully sort ALL of our problems out. | ||
| Reepicheep |
By the way, I stumbled on this old post on diagnosing charging problems (that I was previously trying to find). There are a couple good ones on that thread. Nothing new, but a nice clean writeup and more thorough explanation. It was done for an M2, but should be reasonably applicable to an 1125R. I would recommend that if your bike is under warranty, you make your dealer do their tests on their terms. But if like Mike you have decided to take things into your own hands, this information might be helpful. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=3842&post=237306#POST237306 Probably the important advice here Mike is how I mercilessly isolate one exact possible problem... herding it into a corner all alone, and completely kill the stupid thing when it is helpless and isolated. I never let my problems get in a group and gang up on me, they will always win that way. I have a thing I want to test, I do a lot of work to make sure I am testing that thing and that thing only, and I keep testing it until I am sure its completely good or I have broken it trying  . | ||
| Baggermike |
Thanks Reepicheep I have tested 4 batteries from fully charged then letting them sit and see how much they dropped down and I can say my battery did the best. I have increased my cruising speed and that helps allot I have my shift light come on at 4000 rpms and so I look for the first green light and that is my cruise light, I have the shift light hooked up so it comes on at 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000, then amber 8000, 9000, and ten thousand it turns red and all the lights flash, it has different modes to program and is easy to do once you get use to it, also functions as a volt meter at startup and if you hold the buttons at startup it will stay as a volt meter. Now to read that info. Mike | ||
| Baggermike |
Reepicheep there is the Kisan volt amp meter that is connected this way, also I have a car amp meter and read that the big + cable goes to the starter then come off the starter to power the accessories, the only problem is I NEED A WORKSHOP MANUAL. Anyway I am getting the kisan volt amp meter they also have a unit that measures tire pressure and also can calculate hp, 0 to 60 time and some other things. what I did and have not tried it again is connect the amp meter between the positive cable and put the amp meter in line but you have to start the bike first or you will blow the meter, when I did it it looked like it was measuring ac amps the needle was going back and fourth fast, I have found out why and will be doing the test again when I get a chance, the one test I need is a long ride with the high beams on and this will tell me if I have a problem or not, this is were I had a problem coming home from the dealership which is 110 miles away and would get home with a dead battery so I have to get the motor really worked up and see after riding to the dealership if I have a problem, I just need to wait till I can ride up there with out heated gear and just the high beams on. Mike | ||
| Reepicheep |
You need a less sensitive needle Its just showing you the facts... that your amps are going up then down 6 times for every revolution of your engine! I haven't looked closely at mine, but I bet a digital multimeter should average that out for you and give you a "averaged net AC amps" flowing into or out of the bike. Didn't really think about it before, I wonder what my Fluke 77 does? I personally would worry about putting an ammeter permanently as part of the bike, it's another set of connections and another doo-dad to have problems with. A volt meter tells me if I am in trouble or not, and I'll leave the other diagnostics to temporary setups in the garage. People make these things work, but any time I make a modification, even when I am *very* careful (and I have an electrical engineering background), it is probably 10 to 100 times more likely to eventually have some sort of issue then the original factory setup over the life of the bike. Motorcycles are staggeringly demanding environments. | ||
| Baggermike |
Your right Reepicheep I read that most breakdowns are electrical in nature, so the less things to go wrong the better, but when hooking something up to the negative post if it shorts no problem, the only problems I have had with bikes is dirt in the carb, batteries, and broken cables, I pulled into a gas station to get gas on the bagger I had, so I get filled up, got ready to take off and no throttle, my friend said there was a harley dealership near by but he did not know how close it was to get there so I rigged the return cable to work as the pull cable and come to find out the harley dealership was only two miles away, I should have sent my friend to get the cable, I ended up twice taking the carb off and on again, when all I really needed is for my friend to get me a cable and then bring it to me. Then last year I was on the highway and the bike shut off, went on, shut off, went on, and shut off, and that was that, something inside the battery broke and I could not get even a tiny spark from it, I had mts towing and got towed home, I think I will get mts towing again for this riding season. Mike | ||
| Court |
>>>>Motorcycles are staggeringly demanding environments. And staggeringly engineered to operate as a "system". | ||
| Ccryder |
Mike: Just for a reference point: Before I left home this AM, my battery voltages was 12.75v (key off across the terminals). ~55 miles later, in 37 deg temps and my Gerbings jacket liner turned almost full on, my battery voltage was 12.7v (key off across the terminals). This last reading was done after the fans shut down. IMHO, my charging system is keeping up with my loads, and the bike's loads, while riding at 4,500-5,500 rpms over a 75 min. commute. YRMV but, based on my observations, my charging systems seems to be working just fine. Neil S. | ||
| Blake |
"Just trying to follow your advice about concerning myself only with my bike, Blake." Cool! "I am not sure anyone does (know the scope of the problem) really, even the venerable BMC."  One thing we are all certain of, that you don't know the scope or lack thereof of any problem, and you have virtually zero understanding of Buell Motorcycle Company's activity concerning the scope of any such issue(s). Why you insist on tossing out meaningless statements based upon ignorance and tending to deride Buell Motorcycle Company is beyond me. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
One thing we are all certain of, that you don't know the scope or lack thereof of any problem, and you have virtually zero understanding of Buell Motorcycle Company's activity concerning the scope of any such issue(s). Why you insist on tossing out meaningless statements based upon ignorance and tending to deride Buell Motorcycle Company is beyond me. That is BMCs fault for keeping this situation hush-hush. I have logged my problems with BMC Customer Service as well as with my dealer, what else should I do? If someone has some advice, please let me know. Until BMC shows the general public (not a privileged few, most of whom do not even own a 1125r) that it is addressing these issues, BMC deserves any backlash it receives. | ||
| Court |
Precisely why I am able to convince myself that work, school, music and last nights Yankee game were more important. I confess I'm moving toward reading the internet for entertainment ONLY. Frankly, if I were as miserable with a purchase as some would appear to be. . . I'd simply sell and buy something that brought me more enjoyment. I bought a Buell 20 years ago and have personally really enjoyed the experience and have always been able to sort out, even in those cases where I needed help from a dealer, all my concerns. It's an attitude.
| ||
| Fresnobuell |
I'd simply sell and buy something that brought me more enjoyment. Easy solution I guess. Will BMC cover the several thousand dollars of depreciation, sales tax & fees lost? I think not. Court, with all due respect, there is attitude both ways in this equation. Let's not forget who is the customer here. | ||
| Court |
It is easy. It invokes judgment and personal responsibility. No, I can't imagine that Buell would anymore cover several thousand dollars of depreciation, sales tax & fees lost than Ford, Porsche or Yamaha would cover "pain and suffering" for someone asserting a like claim. Buell has excelled in standing behind their product. No one is more qualified than I to cite the times they've fallen on their collective corporate ass but at the same time I, as the owner of several brands of motorcycles and cars, celebrate their unique successes. It is an attitude, it really is. It takes an attitude to make a legal warranty fade to simple legal document when you have a message to convey. Last year I sent MANY (more than 10, less than 20) Buell owners replacement fuel tanks when they had bubbling decal issues. Be mindful that these tanks ranged from 9-11 years old. The legal obligation ended when my 29 year old son was still in high school. It is an attitude. Last year a Buell owner had a really ugly rear bearing failure. The failure wasn't so ugly but the entire series of events were very costly. He read my CUSTOMER SERVICE 101, followed instructions, and provided me with what I needed to plead his case. It was less than 2 weeks later he got a $1,000 check from Harley-Davidson covering everything. Need more . . . how about a gross recall on shock absorbers that was never really, in the legal and traditional sense, warranted. Erik Buell found out that something had been done that was not what Buell had told the folks to do and he's the kinda guy who frankly can't sleep, not out of fear of legal consequences, but personal values and directed folks, unable to isolate the impacted population, to recall every frickin shock. It really is an attitude and you are right. . . it goes both ways. I get it from the owners end. . . the guy who used the ECM Spy, totally toasted his bike and demands that Buell replace his motorcycle and calls me an SOB when they laugh at it. The week before last . . . well it came the other way from the customer service folks who reprimanded me for meddling and scoffed at my claim of having "helped over 100 owners" (frankly, I think I can document nearer 1,000) and gave me a load of crap. It is an attitude and a funny thing has happened. I'm old and have reached that point of my life where I can pretty well do what I want. I find that's changed my attitude. There are some very capable, talented and dedicated folks at Buell. Buell, while Excelsior-Henderson and Indian were spending over $250,000,000 heading to the shit can, didn't get where they are by shirking responsibility and screwing owners. And you are demanding what . . . that Buell reveal the general public the work in process to deal with certain issues, real, imagined or otherwise. I know for a fact that Mercedes-Benz is trying to sort out what makes those power steering pumps on $85,000 cars go in less than 1,000 miles. . . give Hanz or Franz a call and demand they become totally transparent in their engineering research in process. While I appreciate what you are trying to convey they way you've said it borders on comedy it's so ludicrous. You're a young person. If you let a motorcycle do this to you. . . you are in for some very ugly lessons in life when you face the real problems. It's an attitude. Bottom line is I take crap from folks like you incapable or unwilling to resolve their own concerns and I take crap from the HD customer service folks. You can see why I get a bit obtuse. . . . and to think I am missing Sex Week for this. Anyway . . . there's my personal opinion. I hope you get happy but I'm outta this conversation. I used to get drug into these cesspools or personal discontent . . . no more. Fix your bike or talk to the hand. It's an attitude. Court | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Fix your bike or talk to the hand. That's the point. I would love for someone to fix the bike. I couldn't give less than a shit what Buells engineering research process is, all I really want is the bike fixed. It's great that Buell has provided some great customer service in the PAST, but IMO the rollout of the 1125r has not been supported. A little communication is really all that is needed. Thanks for the paternal guidance, Court, but I am not losing sleep over my bike problems. | ||
| Baggermike |
Neil I left this morning with my battery at 12.6 45 degrees, I rode with the high beams and when I got to were I was going the battery light came on, when leaving I did a dio mode and read 11.9 but the lights were on, I need to start riding with the volt meter and paper to write this stuff down, anyway I got home and the battery is reading 12.3 and I have been keeping the rpms over 4000 so just having high beams on this is not right? also I have a light to the acc outlet and that shut off to, I have tested 4 batteries from fully charged and mine was the best at 12.65 after fully charging and waiting an hour to take the reading, I am riding up to my dealership first warm day to see what happens, 110 miles away so by the time I get there if I have a problem it will show up and I will be right were I need to be. Mike | ||
| Fresnobuell |
From Buell.com What is the charging capacity of the Buell® 1125R? The Buell® 1125R is equipped with a 432 watt alternator designed to manage the original equipment manufacturers vehicle electrical loads and supplied 10 amp accessory plug. This system is designed to maintain and recover the battery's charge under normal operating conditions, which is considered ride time over 3000 rpm's. In some instances, the duty cycle and current draw may create a charging system deficit below 2000 RPM's. In riding situations where the customer experiences excessive idle time or extended riding below 2000 RPM's or is using high wattage accessories in conjunction with the high beams under 2000 RPM's, it may cause the charging system to operate at a deficit. In any of these situations, maintenance with a Battery Tender is recommended while the vehicle is not in use. The Buell® 1125R is equipped with a 10 amp accessory plug under the front module. Power to the accessory plug is controlled by the ECM through a relay. If the battery voltage drops below 11.9 volts the ECM will remove power from the accessory plug until the battery recharges to 12.4 volts. This system feature is designed to maintain the battery's charge. Buell offers heated grips that adapt directly to the accessory plug. The Buell® 1125R charging system is designed to operate with the original equipment manufacturers vehicle electrical loads plus the heated grip accessory. Additional accessory electrical loads may cause the charging system to operate at a deficit regardless of RPM, which will discharge the battery. Accessories connected directly to the battery will draw electrical current regardless of the battery's charge voltage or vehicle operation. We do not recommend adding unauthorized accessories directly to the battery. If other accessories are added to the electrical system, they should be wired directly into the accessory plug so that the ECM can shut off power to the accessory in the event battery voltage drops below 11.9 volts. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thats a cool little feature. Kind of like how your brain shuts off blood to your extremities when your core temperature is dropping. |
