| Author | Message | ||
     Fresnobuell |
What the Buell Techs have tried to do is isolate the issues to find the root cause Have they? Seems to me they have had months to rectify this, or at least give some indication to the dealers/owners that strides are being taken towards a resolution, and according to my dealer there is NOTHING in his system that would indicate this. There are many assuming the electrical problems are few and far between. , but how can we really know the true extent of the problems? | ||
| Blake |
Fresno, You certainly don't know, and your interpretations of your dealer's statements (according to your own pronouncements) have proven to be a great source of blatant misinformation. What else do you need to know? You best concern yourself with your own motorcycle and nothing else. If there is anything I can do to help you with your motorcycle, please let me know! Otherwise, please avoid the silly drama and fantastical speculation. It is entirely unhelpful. (Message edited by Blake on March 26, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
Zac is an aggie!? Good Lord, what have I done!  | ||
| Blake |
Excellent Neil! Thanks!  | ||
| Al_lighton |
Neil, You found out BOTH of Al's First and Second Rules of Motorcycle Mechanics with one malfunction: 1) All problems are a grounding problem until proven otherwise. 2) All problems are related to the last thing you worked on, until proven otherwise. If you'd used Al's rules to begin with, you would have found the problem right away!!!  Actually, I've appended one more rule to Al's Rules of Motorcycle Mechanics when it comes to Buell FI models: 3) All problems that aren't 1 or 2 are related to the Head Temp Sensor until proven otherwise. I swear the HTS is a possessed device. Al | ||
| Zac4mac |
One year at TAMU, almost 4 years at Colorado A&M, now known as CSU. Gig 'em. Z Simple electrical diagnosis - if it acts "weird" it's a ground issue. | ||
| Midknyte |
just a fairly good read I ran across. Decide amoungst yourselves how well it relates... http://www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_battery.html | ||
| Jpfive |
Great article, Midknyte. Thanks! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
What else do you need to know? You best concern yourself with your own motorcycle and nothing else. Thanks, Blake. I always like threats. I'll take that under advisement. So why don't you enlighten us with some insight on the situation? You seem to have the close BMC ties. What is being done to address the stalling/electrical issues? Or is your position still that there isn't a situation at all? If Buell is working on the aforementioned issues (which I hope they are), they should communicate this with the dealer network. | ||
| Pariah |
Fresno, I can see your point... that being, how does one know that one's battery is low on charge in the first place? This is a scary thought indeed, but I should also point out that my bike--- if I recall correctly--- had been displaying the low battery warning indicator for some time. I just thought (wrongly) that this was a normal part of the start-up sequence (with ignition "on" and BEFORE hitting the engine start button). Do you have this light on? Once the engine gets going, the light may go out because the alternator takes over... Why don't you try and charge up your battery and see if your stalling problems go away? I would think this would be a helpful first step, and I'd be curious what you find. Best, T. (Message edited by pariah on March 26, 2008) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Thank pariah. I do not believe my battery light is on for an extended period of time. I can put the battery tender on and see if it makes a difference--but I refuse to accept that this is normal. (Message edited by fresnobuell on March 26, 2008) | ||
| Pariah |
I haven't had to use the tender again. I only used it once. Honestly, I've been riding my bike every day since last Saturday and it's been running perfect each day on my commute to and from work (about 12 miles each way). My battery got run down for a number of reasons, but mainly the dealer's neglect. The battery charger I have does more than just charge it also "conditions" the battery... get yourself a good unit (mine cost $70 from Griot's Garage), but my sincere feeling is that once you use it, you'll rarely have to use it again AS LONG AS you're riding your bike enough. My 2 cents... T. PS: Hope that you and Blake patch things up...  | ||
| Hwyranger |
 is it safe to post here? I look on the thread and just see rounds coming down range between Blake and Fresno...Cant we all just get along? | ||
| Jpfive |
Fresno, have you clicked on midknyte's link yet? The last four bikes I have owned have been EFI with AGM batteries, and the forums for all of these bikes were full of electrical and related problems due to low battery state. I think it is normal for occasional use of a tender to top off batteries. The electrical demands of new bikes have increased, but the size and output of batteries has not. Read the article, and see if it makes sense. Jack | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I haven't had time to will check out the article. Thank you Jack for pointing that out. I will read with interest. | ||
| Pariah |
Hey, our Friendly Neighborhood Police Officer is here... 'ranger, meant to ask: what do you think of those "Ride Like a Pro" DVDs... are those authentic police drills? I wanna ride like a cop, too! Sorry to hijack my own thread... (Message edited by pariah on March 26, 2008) | ||
| Midknyte |
FWIW - My XB stumbled from time to time. It too did it in uncomfortable times (coming thru / out of a turn) and caused me concern. Once I understood that it was related to the voltage needs of the ECM and got a battery tender, I do not recall it ever happening again. It's a fact of life with our computer driven bikes. An average ride will recharge/recover startup cranking loads and not a whole lot more (i.e. charge lost to sitting in your garage for a week or more...). It is not the duty (or ability - you choose) of our alternators to provide a deep charge. A good charger and/or tender is essential. And you can get a name brand Deltran battery Tender Jr. for only $20. Do not rely or even expect that a dealer took the time to charge the battery and get you off to a good start. How often do they even set up or suspensions or make sure tire pressures are correct? Unless you have taken the time to ensure that your battery is charged, you really do not have a baseline for argument. That's life. There comes a time when we have to wipe our own butts too. | ||
| Old_man |
A battery tender is one of the best investments you can make for your bike. I recently replaced my original battery, after a day long ride I put the tender on it. It took quite some time for the tender to go from the charging mode to trickle. Indicating, to me, that the battery was not fully charged. Now, when I put the tender on, it, almost immediately, goes to the trickle mode. A very healthy battery and a better running Buell | ||
| Blake |
"Thanks, Blake. I always like threats." I made a threat?  I don't think so. It's getting easier to undertand how you so often and so egregiously misinterprete what you hear or read. "So why don't you enlighten us with some insight on the situation? You seem to have the close BMC ties. What is being done to address the stalling/electrical issues?" You mean besides ensuring that the electrical system is operating up to spec? There is no inherent systemic issue that I've heard of, just a few bikes with various faulty parts, stator, voltage regulator, battery, or just an undercharged battery. One or two may still be undergoing diagnosis. I've not heard the results yet. What I do know is that you have no clue what you are talking about, which is why you've been asked to avoid making what appear to be factual statements concerning ongoing troubleshooting. "Or is your position still that there isn't a situation at all?" I don't know what you mean by "situation"? There are a few and various individual problems with a few individual motorcycles. The 1125R charging system is fine as designed and has been proven so when all components are functioning properly. So there is no "issue" there other than a need for improved quality control and improved dealership diagnostic capabilities. If Buell is working on the aforementioned issues (which I hope they are), they should communicate this with the dealer network." I agree. Are you contending that they are not? How many 1125Rs with faulty electical/charging systems are you aware of, and how many as yet remain undiagnosed/resolved? I ask again, how many 1125Rs with faulty electical/charging systems are you aware of, and how many as yet remain undiagnosed/unresolved? I'm sorry if I made you feel threatened. Not my intent. I just want you to stop ignorantly levying such wildly sweeping unsubstantiated accusations as though they are fact. We do not want to misinform the BadWeB public, which is what you have been doing. (Message edited by Blake on March 27, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
"Unless you have taken the time to ensure that your battery is charged, you really do not have a baseline for argument. That's life. There comes a time when we have to wipe our own butts too." Well said Bradley! | ||
| Reepicheep |
IMHO there is a root cause at Buell, but not what everyone is thinking... It was just about 100% predictable also (and Court pretty much predicted it). Never ship a bike without (at a minimum) a solid draft of the service manual readily available in electronic format. And even that is risky, when the manual is printed, the bike can ship. Of course far more owners would be outraged about that then are outraged about charging problems... so what are you going to do? I tried to write up a knowledge vault entry that replaces my M2 manual electrical trouble shooting procedures. I actually spent a LOT of time on it... thinking I can surely write something faster and more intuitive then the deeply involved procedure in the manual. I was up to rev 3 when I punted. I had a simpler easier approach that will work great 85% of the time, and leave you with the wrong conclusion 15% of the time. The manual proscribed process is better. Harley "improvements" in CS made it worse, various dealers made it worse. It'll take a while to untangle it, but a solid draft of a service manual chapter for testing the electrical system would be my first step. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Blake, glad you can at least admit that there is at least a component problem with the 1125r. Now maybe Buell can do the same. Buell's communication with the dealerships SUCKS. There have been no bulletins regarding the electrical problems or any communication that the problem(s) are being addressed at all. I have logged my issues with Buell Customer Service & if the problem(s) are so isolated as you believe, then Buell should be contacting EVERY owner with said issues. | ||
| Jpfive |
I don't think that Buell, or any other manufacturer, has an obligation to inform owners of problems that other owners are reporting, unless it can statistically be confirmed that it is likely to be affecting all, or a definable group of its products. I don't think that this is the case here. Its obligation is to honor its warranty. This includes diagnosing problems in good faith, and repairing defects. Owners also have a responsibility - to be honest in their communication, and to operate their bikes within the limits of its design and intention. I have been a member of more forums than I can count, going back to the pre-internet compuserve days. Scratching my head here, but I can't remember where electrical problems weren't prominent areas of discussion. Battery tenders have long been an accepted means of giving owners a leg up on these problems, and I know that they have found wide use among bike owners. I have used them since at least the early 90's, on bikes ranging from....well just let me list them: Gold Wing, Voyager, Aprilia Caponord, VFR 800, XB12Ss and now the 1125R. There are any number of articles to explain and encourage the use of these devices. I can refer you the one in this thread...or maybe it is the charging thread...and to several on the Yuasa site. Interesting that Yuasa recommends their use, and has made their own unit available. I first became aware of the necessity of properly charging and conditioning a new battery back in my Gold Wing days - and this is a bike with a pretty robust charging system - oh, and Japanese also... From my own experience, and the hard won experience of others, I highly recommend the use of a tender, and also the educating of one's self on the proper care and conditioning of that remarkable little device that we depend so much on - the motorcycle battery. Jack (edited post) (Message edited by jpfive on March 28, 2008) | ||
| Zac4mac |
I got a Tender Jr. after getting the 1125R. Seemed to have some potential issues and I'll pay extra for "peace of mind". For the last month, the Tender has been plugged into my other vehicles, not Loretta. I'm glad I got the Tender, since everything else sits idle after Loretta's arrival. Z | ||
| Thurstonbuell |
Most of us have one , but here's where I got mine , Battery Tender Plus for only $39.00 http://www.derbycycles.com/cgi-bin/eShop/index.cgi ?cart_id=8079591.56811&pid=2600&product=Battery_Ch argers&count=1 | ||
| Brad1445 |
I have four bikes currently and have never owned a tender sometimes as many as six. Add in umpteen trucks and yet I have never owned a battery tender. | ||
| Xb984r |
I never had a tender until I won one at a St.Patricks day thing at a H-D dealer.I have never used it. | ||
| Cutty72 |
I just picked up mine yesterday. The regional Buell service manager happen to be there when I stopped in. Had a decent convo with him. His recomendations. -Keep it above 3K, it won't keep up charging below that -When using accessories, plug it in to a tender after the ride -Ride it, ride it, ride it. -Don't be afraid to push the bike, it can handle it. They installed the plug on the battery for the tender, and gave me a tender with the sale of the bike. All around nice experience. | ||
| Blake |
Fresno/MIPOB (most inaccurate poster on BadWeB), "Blake, glad you can at least admit that there is at least a component problem with the 1125r." Sorry to disappoint and ruin your gladness; I admitted no such thing. In fact what you just stated is yet another false unsupportable accusation. The correct version of your statement is that a few--we know of a grand total of less than ten here--1125R motorcycles have suffered one faulty component in their charging system, including merely a poorly charged battery, a faulty voltage regulator, a faulty stator, or poor grounding connections. That's it. Nothing more. The "bulletins" that I fully agree that Buell should have published are the complete and accurate owner's, service, and parts manuals. "Now maybe Buell can do the same." If what you say were accurate, they would. To do otherwise would be risking too much. "Buell's communication with the dealerships SUCKS." You know this how? Examples please. The only examples I have seen end up revealing how poorly the dealership behaved, not Buell. "There have been no bulletins regarding the electrical problems or any communication that the problem(s) are being addressed at all." In your imagination, every time a Buell motorcycle suffers some kind of issue, the company should produce a "bulletin"? LOL. "I have logged my issues with Buell Customer Service & if the problem(s) are so isolated as you believe, then Buell should be contacting EVERY owner with said issues." That is some freakishly weird logic you have there. You had some trouble with your motorcycle, so Buell should inform all its customers?  (Message edited by blake on March 29, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
Answer the questions Fresno! How many 1125Rs with faulty electical/charging systems are you aware of, and how many as yet remain undiagnosed/unresolved? |
