| Author | Message | ||
     Nautique4life |
Out for a ride yesterday, coming out of some twisties, my bike died. Not spit and sputter, then die. Went to grab a handful of throttle and I was already coasting to a stop. Hit the ignition, not even a sound. Battery cable inspection confirmed everything was snug. I asked myself, is it my time now? Time for a new stator/possibly voltage reg.? I haven't ran the test yet, getting my volt meter back today after work....I'll post my findings. Bike only has 8700 on it, Al said that was pretty low for a failed stator, but he has seen `em go at less. Knowing how many `webbers replaced theirs, I'm not ruling it out either. Can anyone offer a difficulty level for changing said stator? I'm pretty crafty, and won't shy away from performing my own maintenance. I'm hoping this will be something else I can add to my own "knowledge Vault". | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you have an meter that can do AC volts and ohms, the stator is the easiest part of the whole system to test... Lots of discussion about how to do that here and in the service manual. | ||
| Nautique4life |
Thanks Reep. I've searched around and read some post about it. I'm going to hopefully perform the test this evening. I have a manual. So I shouldnt have too much trouble. Just posting to add to the growing number of Buellers with (possible) stator failure. | ||
| Buelltroll |
I THINK you have to rotate the engine down to replace the charging system. I heard it can be done with out dropping the engine but it's a REAL pain in the ass n makes reinstalling take twice as long. You could also check you kickstand switch and you clutch switch. Both got me at a gas station BEFORE my whole charging system cascadingly failed. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Don't panic.  Just pull the plug where the stator goes to the voltage regulator. Measure the resistance from each pin to every other pin. You should see low ohms (3 or something... check the manual). Measure the resistance from each pin to ground. It should be infinity (unless like me you have your greasy fingers on the probe and on the bike ). Finally, if those check out, fire up the bike with the stator disconnected and measure the AC voltage coming out of that connector. It should be like 14v at idle, going up to 60 volts at high RPM's (again, guessing, check the manual). The stator is pretty much the one piece you can diagnose for sure, you can test that it is doing what it is supposed to be doing without it being connected to any of the other pieces. Replacing the stator, voltage regulator, and battery should not require any engine rotation that I can think of... but I have only done it on a Tuber, not an XB. You do have to pull the primary apart for the stator, which means removing the clutch and rotor bell and primary chain as a unit. It requires some big sockets and a locking bar, but is not a huge deal. Seems like I was doing it about every other week on my M2 ;) | ||
| Nautique4life |
Thanks guys for the info. I'm pretty bummed, I didn't get a chance to play last night. Girlfriend duty. I tried sneaking out to the garage after dinner. I barely got the meter out before she got wise. Apparently, I stole that technique right out of the "How to really piss off your girlfriend" book. I still got some though  . I digress. Anyhow, Buelltroll, there is a kickstand switch  ? This is news to me. If there is indeed one, mine is most certainly busted. Does it kill the motor, audible alarm? I have accidentally taken off with my kickstand down twice now. Once, I only went a couple yards. The last time however was scary. Again it was a short distance traveled, but I made a left turn and it hit the ground and puckered my A-hole up tightly. I was scared there would be damage from the impact. Everything LOOKS ok. But WOW, a kickstand switch, that would come in handy for someone somewhat absent minded as myself. Thanks again Reep for the advice. I have my battery on trickle right now, so when I get home, she will be ready to go for testing. Stay tuned. One more thing, a bit OT: I was reading a post from Saintly, and he was describing how his stator wires had been cut into by his crankcase breather hose clamp. Some members said their wires were on the other side of the starter. Mine, were pressed right next to the same hose clamp. I moved `em around, didnt see any signs of chaffing. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I think the kick stand switch went away in 03 or something... now the kick stand is engineered such that it will clunk and retract (sometimes alarmingly), but you can't jam it and make it wreck. DAMHIK, you can drop off a curb or go over with a speedbump with it still extended, and it will retract without accident (though it makes some pretty scary noises). | ||
| Nautique4life |
Don't worry, I wont ask. I'll just assume a "close friend" told you.  That very noise was probably the culprit for the ass pucker and white knuckle moment. | ||
| Nautique4life |
Reep, don't happen to have a pdf of the manual do ya? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Nope... just the hardbound copy. Don't know if the 96 S1 manual kicking around here would be close enough or not... The XB stator is three phase, the S1 stator is 2 phase, though both are shunt regulators. So the process might be applicable, but many of the voltages and resistances will probably be off. | ||
| Nautique4life |
Excuse my haste. I was trying to get the testing done last night(to no avail) and couldnt locate the procedure anywhere. Alas, I am getting my manual back today and all will be right with the world again. Thanks. | ||
| Nautique4life |
Finally did the Multi meter test on my bike last night. Everything checked out within spec. With the exception of the AC output test. The manual calls for ~16vac per 1000 RPM. The test is to be performed at 2k RPM. the manual states 32-40vac at 2000RPM is spec. I was getting about 30-32. I don't know if this was my inability to maintain 2k steadily, but I came in on the low side of spec. I feel confident I got accurate readings however. I performed the test twice. So other that, everything checked out. ***I did notice the regulator wire dongle was very easy to pull apart. I first thought that was the root cause*** Put everything back together, making sure all connections are tight.Go for 2 rides, everything seems ok. Sweet!! Im stoked thinking that my problems were just a loose connection. Didn't cost me a dime either. Not so fast. It's never that easy, not for this guy. On the way into work this morning, after grinning ear to ear about leaving the cage at home, I find myself in a familiar location. On the side of the road. Dead battery. I'm baffled. 1.5 hours late to work. Bike still down. Owner losing patience. Everyones 2ยข are welcome and appreciated. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I think you did all this, but just in case we missed something, spend 5 minutes reviewing this thread... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show .cgi?tpc=3842&post=237306#POST237306 I don't think the slightly low voltage is relevant... you are trying to measure AC voltage, but that changes based upon frequency and waveform. Your meter probably assumes 60Hz sine wave, and what the bike is cranking out is a different frequency. That will make the exact value a bit fuzzy, I would not assume any difference under 10% is significant. So what is happening now sounds like it could be intermittent, which happened to me, or cascading, which also happened to me. When I was chasing this down on my M2 the first time, I *know* my stator tested good. After replacing the VR (confirmed dead), then the battery (5 years into a 5 year life span), I came back around to the stator, and sure enough it tested bad. Could be intermittant grounding problems, a thermal related problem, etc... On the up side, the worse it gets the easier it is to debug. After my first "phantom chasing" excercise on the M2, I put a hacked up $15 voltmeter on the 9sx. There is an even cooler one that uses 1 LED that will go 3 colors and 2 blink patterns. That would let you know when you are riding on borrowed time anyway... when you know you are in trouble you can stop, pull the headlight fuse, and get a LOT more miles. Heck, Dave Barr covered most of Finland riding that way... | ||
| Nautique4life |
Reep, Thanks for getting back to me. I actually have not stumbled across that particular post before. Thanks for sharing, it was VERY informative. I have not tested current while the bike is running yet, I will tonight however. I have a Fluke 23 multimeter. I believe it is fused. Will said meter detect current? I was surprised the testing was easy once I familiarized myself with everything. I am learning a great deal about my bike and electric circuits in general from this ordeal. One day, maybe I can be the guy answering the questions instead of asking them. Thanks. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Yup, provided you hook it up right. Thats a nice meter. Just remember to put the red lead back in the "other hole" before going back and measuring voltage! Or you will have a short lived Fluke MIG welder. | ||
| Nautique4life |
I find that every task is much easier once the individual comprehends(me, in this case) what exactly is going on, i.e. full details of the problem, and how to rectify it. Being well informed is paramount to reaching the desired goal. This is why I value BaDWeb so much. The collective knowledge amassed here is gold. So Bill, if in fact I detect the current dropping, does that signal bad VR? In theory, a new one will put me back on the road? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Current dropping? No, not if you are measuring it at the battery. That could just be a sign that your battery is getting topped off, and the VR is now appropriately shunting more power to ground. It would let you know if net current is flowing into or out of the battery, which, depending on the current state of charge of your battery, may or may not be appropriate. And it might tell you if the direction of current flow changes versus RPM. You can tell the same thing by watching the battery discharge, but the current flow will give you a quicker conclusion. (Message edited by reepicheep on April 02, 2008) | ||
| Nautique4life |
Bill, Last night while attempting to check current flow, as described in a link a couple post above, I didn't get very far. When it came time to release the negative wire from the (-) terminal which I was holding with a screw driver to start bike, The bike shuts off immediately. I thought this was odd. Once the bike is running I should be able to have the negative completely unhooked and the bike should stay running, correct? Also, I think it is the Voltage regulator wire, the one with 2 large wires. One red, one black that connect in the same location as the stator wires. Anyhow, on that wire, at the actual connecting clip, it looks like the positive female end is fried? the negative looks clean, but the positive looks burned. I though about this for a bit. I concluded that I was indeed stuck in the bad rain not to long ago and I guess it wouldn't be that unfathomable to believe water could have somehow gotten in the there and caused a short? But then I went back to thinking about my bike shutting off when I dropped the negative wire off.... thoughts? I attempted to make this as ramble free and clear as possible. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Interesting! The bike needs the battery to run. The battery acts like a big spring to smooth out the "really bumpy" DC into smooth DC. So that part doesn't surprise me... You have to figure a way to get the meter in line without breaking the circuit. As I recall, that bad connector is a fairly chronic problem on XB's. So that may very well be your problem... that'd be a nice easy and cheap fix if it is... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Oh, and I don't think the failure would be a short circuit from water, it would be a "dirty" connection that leads to excessive heat, which makes the connection worse, which leads to more heat, which makes the connection worse... you get the idea. Though keeping that connection dry would be a good way to keep it clean... | ||
| Nautique4life |
Ok, so this is where I will start. I will replace that wire and see where we are. I should be able to just buy that wire right? Or does that wire come with the VR? Yes, Al said that connection was the primary failing point, but I thought he said the stator wire failed there. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If it were me, I'd be sorely tempted to just eliminate the connector and solder it direct, or use some "big freaking crimp connectors". I'm not shy about cutting and connecting directly, connectors are over-rated and cause as many problems as they solve. | ||
| Rsh |
You can buy the connectors separately. I had the same type of problem as you, only it was the black wire side of the voltage regulator connector. When I was first checking it out I noticed the black wire would feel noticeably warmer compared to the red wire seeming to indicate a resistance problem. I checked all my grounds and found the ground cable connection on the battery had some corrosion and was slightly loose at the battery terminal so I cleaned and torqued that connection. The voltage regulator connector apparently got hot enough to melt the plastic inside the connector and cover the terminals causing poor contact. I initially took the connector apart and scraped off the excess plastic residue with an xacto knife, reassembled the connector and my charging issue was cured. I personally did not like having a partially melted connector and had a few options just as you have. 1. Hard wire the connections eliminating the connectors. 2. Buy another voltage regulator. 3. Replace the connectors. I found they are available from Buell and I replaced them and have not had anymore problems. | ||
| Rays |
Have a look at this document I put together for someone on the 'Big, Bad & Dirty' forum some time back - it was posted on Google by one of the forum members: http://docs.google.com/view?docid=d4rbxwr_20dq5khf you may be able to clean up the connectors and snug up the females to make them a good tight fit again. The female connectors are the issue and they are part of the main loom - replacing the VR can give the impression the issue is resolved but can be just temporarily cleaning some of the gunk off the female connectors. I have corrected a couple of intermittent charging issues on Ulys and other XB's by making sure this connector is making good contact. Please PM me if you need any clarification - this simple fix changed my Uly ownership from frustration to reliability. I agree with RSH about the best connection being a direct soldered joint - if you are out of warranty then this is one definte solution. RSH - do you have the part numbers for the female sockets? My dealer tried to order these for me but claims they are only available as individual parts. (Message edited by Rays on April 05, 2008) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Fantastic information guys! This tip will go on the short list! | ||
| Jackbequick |
Ray, In my messing with a Buell and then a H-D Dyna, all the connectors were either Amp or Deutsch parts. If you can go online to someplace like Mouser.com, I've had good luck there finding replacement contacts and connector bodies. You have to be a little patient and stubborn but sometimes it works out both better and cheaper in the long run. The Amp stuff will usually have "Amp" and maybe a part number molded onto it. If you can find the part numbers and need some help getting those to "down under", PM me. I can probably put a care package together for you. Also, over the years I have become a compulsive user of dielectic compound. I put it on nearly every inline connector I happen to encounter on cars and motorcycles and it has not caused me any problems yet. When I find any corrosion in a connector, I always clean those too but seldom find any new corrosion when I open them later. I defer to any experts if there is a good reason for not using dielectic but I've not heard of one yet. Back when I was riding enduro bikes and racing in club level motocross, packing kill switches and all the connectors with dielectic would give me a good chance at cruising on past the gaggles that tended to form at the wet crossings. Jack | ||
| Rsh |
These part numbers are for a 2003 XB9R which is what I own. I bought part no. Y0129.02A8 description connector, natural and Part no. Y0126.02A8 description terminal and seal set voltage re. | ||
| Rays |
Thanks guys - both those part numbers are in the Uly parts book but the VR one is related to the Stator connector in the parts drawing and the other one has the rather short description of 'connector' so it had me confused. Jack - I'll do some research online and see what I can find. I seem to remember someone on the Forum mentioning Packard in relation to these connectors but that is a brand that I have no knowledge of. Thanks again for the really helpful feedback - the collective knowledge on this site is just great.  | ||
| Rsh |
Rays, In the Uly parts book look at the main wire harness section, what is the connector number that connects to the voltage regulator. In the 2003 XB9R parts manual it is number 63 which is p/n Y0129.02A8 and is a 2 wire connector. That is the connector I replaced on mine because it was melted inside. The 2 wire connector from the voltage regulator is number 5 it is p/n 72233 and connects to the number 63 2 wire connector. The number 5 connector is shown in the alternator and regulator section of the 2003 XB9R parts manual. | ||
| Nautique4life |
Gents, I replaced my VR this weekend. Friday Night to be exact. Got lucky and found a Stealership that had one stocked right down the street from my Dads factory outside of Ocala. PN:Y0302.02A8. The connectors are Deutsch type. This did not resolve my charging issue. I was disappointed to say the least. The stator test showed I had a grounded and working stator. I was bouncing around 31-34VAC at 2000rpm. I am led back to Als' 2 Rules of Bike problems: Ground problems and the last place I worked on the bike. For all intent purposes, we shall exclude the latter of those for now. +1 on dielectric grease. I did my best gyno impression with the Deutsch connector. After installing new VR and realizing I was still having issues, I searched high and low for a potential bad ground. I got nothing. Short of replacing the stator, which multiple opinions have suggested is working correctly, including mine, I believe I am close to throwing my hands in the air. I don't want to take it to a dealership for 2 reasons: A) I think(hope) I can fix this on my own. B) No warranty. As far as a course of action goes, I'mn drawing a blank. I suppose I will just check and recheck everything. Thanks for all the very valuable input, guys. I'm really trying to get this thing ironed out this week, as there is a big ride coming up locally. |
