| Author | Message | ||
     Mikej |
"Take a look at the finish on a NAPA or Kragen or AutoZone engine though, and you'll see a good bit of swirl." I wouldn't be surprised to see balogna sandwich remains in the swirl marks either. Not exactly my choice for a quality rebuild. Fine for a grocery getter engine replacement though. | ||
| Hootowl |
I wouldn't be surprised either. They have been doing it that way for God knows how long. Which is why I wonder about the finish on our bikes. It's an old design. Maybe they're still swirl polishing them. I have no idea, I'm just asking. I do know that it took 10K miles to seat my rings even with dyno oil. I didn't switch to Red Line until after that. | ||
| Aaron |
Okay, I'm confused ... you're saying it's not because synthetic is too slippery, but because it doesn't break down as easily under heat and it flows better when cold, right? So therefore it prevents too much wear and doesn't allow break-in? So you're saying break-in wear occurs primarily during start-up and also when temps are hot enough to break down the oil? Chevrolet and Porsche and several other companies get away with building thousands of new engines and filling them with synthetic from the get-go. They clearly don't buy into that thinking. | ||
| Hootowl |
Follow up... Some modern engines have nickle silicon carbide plating in there and no liner, so you know they're smooth. American aircooled cylinders use it too. But does the Factory make the stock iron sleeve smooth or rough? | ||
| Hootowl |
Those companies are building engines designed for synthetic oil from the get go. i.e. SMOOTH cylinder walls. Do our Buells have this surface, or the old school rough-so-the-rings-will-seat-because-of-the-shitty-oil-we-used-to-use surface? | ||
| Mikej |
That would be a question to ask on the next engine plant factory tour. It would also be a question to ask the engine builders who not-so-anonymously hover here. | ||
| Grizzlyb |
In the latest BMW R 1150 GS Adventure, mine, (with nickle silicon carbide plating things inside  ), from the get-go, the manufactor uses full synthatic oil. Engine was built to do this, so the dealer told me. my two cents ciao Grizzly | ||
| Sarodude |
Nikasil engines are honed with a cross hatch as well. Nikasil is actually so tough that our race jugs still had cross hatches on 'em after a couple of seasons' worth of hard runnings... -Saro | ||
| Grizzlyb |
Its probably a well known site here, but cant hurt to put it here again: Tells a lot about break-in period and oil. break-in Grizzly | ||
| Blake |
Hootowl, 10,000 miles to seat a set of rings? I think it is MUCH more likely that you had other problems contributing to oil consumption. Why break-in with synthetic if you are going to change the oil in 500 miles? Kinda silly to spend that much on oil for only 500 miles. One question y'all might consider... What protects against wear in the case of unavoidable metal to metal contact? Is it the base oil, or special additives? Same additives in conventional and synthetic oils? | ||
| Hootowl |
Blake, I don't know what else it could have been. I wasn't leaking it. The amount coming out of the breathers was insignificant. And yet I was using about a half a quart a week. It doesn't use any to speak of now. It's time to change it before I need to add any. Was someone advocating synth for break in? I wasn't. I really have no idea. Additives like VI improvers and detergents I don't think would have much effect. I think you're depending on the oil itself at that point. I'll ask around. I work with a bunch of petrochemical engineers. | ||
| Lake_Bueller |
Finally switched to Mobil 1 Gear Lube for the trannie  . My bike has NEVER shifted this smoothing (not even new from the factory). Thanks for the recommendations for the throbbing brain that is BWB  | ||
| Blake |
Hootowl, Ever heard of "anti-wear" additives? | ||
| Blake |
And as to your point "I don't know what else it could have been." That my friend is called "anecdotal evidence", and it deserves much skepticism. Imagine that you averages 3K rpm and 60 mph for those 10K miles. That means your rings would have scraped a total of... 10,000 mi/60 mi/hr*60min/hr*3000 rev/min*2strokes/rev*3.8125 in/stroke/12in/FT/5280FT/mi=3,610 MILES So each of your rings had to scrape 3000 miles worth of cylinder wall before they wore in? Sounds a bit preposterous doesn't it. The possible explanations for you oil loss are many. could be you rrings finally decided to seat after 10K miles. But based on my understanding of that scenaro, I doubt it. | ||
| Hootowl |
Yes it does sound preposterous. It pissed me off for the longest time too. I couldn't imagine why I was burning so much oil. Thought I had a dud motor. But then it quit. Anecdotal or not, it had to go somewhere, and it wasn't leaking. I guess all that oil must have vanished in to the ether. | ||
| Johnc |
I switched to Amsoil V-twin 20/50 this spring in my M2 at 6600 km on the odometer. Last weekend I went on a 2700 km trip and the engine used over 1 litre of oil. Last summer I took a similar trip of around 2500 km and didn't have to add any oil. I'm planning another trip of about 3000 km in August and I think I'll switch back to the H-D 20/50 before I go and see if the oil comsumption improves. Anyone have any comments or suggestions? | ||
| Ara |
Johnc, did you make any changes or do any substantial work on your bike between the two trips? Do you have any other symptoms besides the oil consumption? Was the oil at the same level at the beginning of the two trips? Russ | ||
| Johnc |
Ara, no changes were made to the bike between trips. It has a Vance and Hines slip on and a Buell carbon fiber air filter with a remote breather system. My buddy who was following me on the trip noticed a small puff of smoke when I close the throttle after a WFO pass of motorhomes etc. The engine runs perfectly and the plugs show no sign of oil useage. Some oil on the filter at the end of the breather hose mounted under the seat beside the oil tank. I don't know how much oil these engines use normally but mine only seems to use oil when ridden hard. | ||
| Johnc |
I called my local Buell dealer and asked the service manager what Buell considers to be normal oil conumption. He said that Harley-Davidson considers 1 liter in 1500 km to be "acceptable". That's not acceptable to me, if I go on a 3000 km trip I have to carry 2 liters of oil with me. | ||
| Ara |
Johnc, There are others here far more knowledgable than I, and I hope they'll check my thinking here. If there is no more smoke than what you describe and the plugs are healthy looking, then you're very probably not burning the oil. There isn't enough oil on your breather filter to account for the oil loss. The only other place that I know of that your motor oil can be going is into your primary via leakage through the crankshaft seal. I recommend that you check your primary to see if there is more lubricant there than the amount you purposfully put in it. Russ | ||
| Phatkidwit1eye |
Hi all. im new too the site and i really enjoy it. Im still trying to get how to use it and post so i am just going to pick a spot and post. Anyways Im having some oil problems. My bike is popping out the oil cap?? I checked the oil level to make sure it wasnt too high just incase it was expanding but it's right were it should be. Tonight i was coming home from work and i felt this pop from under my seat so i pulled over and the cap popped off not completely but almost. Im just lost as too what it might be...please help. thanks Ron | ||
| Aaron |
Pinched vent hose? Either between the tank and the engine, or the engine breathers themselves? | ||
| Henrik |
Too much oil maybe: your oil level, checked with the engine hot and bike upright/level, should be about midway between the marks. More than that and the cap have been known to pop out. Henrik | ||
| Jeffsd |
I just got my bike(oox1) back after having the engine rebuilt b/c of a rod knock at 5200 miles. (No warranty) I am 400 miles into the 500 mile break-in period and you guys are killing me with the oil debate and the web page on break in. Too much info. Before the rebuild, I had switched to RL HSP for the primary and Mobil Vtwin for the engine. I plan to do the same thing again. Hopefully the rods will like the change this time. No word on what caused the rod knock. As a precautionary measure and to make me less paranoid about new noises, I plan to install an oil cooler. I have seen the Jag cooler, but just found out about another one. I'm not sure of the name (Bad boy or Big bad boy). Has anyone had any experience with either of these? Thanks in advance for the input. Jeff | ||
| Ara |
Phatkidwid1eye, If the bike has the tendency to leak oil down from the reservoir to the crankcase, when you fire it up the oil pump will return oil to the reservoir faster than the air can leak out of the reservoir. Result: pressurized air in the reservoir can blow your oil cam off. Next time you start the bike, take the oil reservoir cap off and note the oil level before you hit the starter. If the oil level is low before you start the engine and then comes up rapidly, you may have found the cause of your problem. | ||
| Buellistic |
ATT: Buellers HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE HAD A PROBLEM WITH THEIR OIL TANK???????????????????????????????????????? I have always had a weeping problem with mine. It was never any more than an oil film....... At 46467.3 miles it became a LEAK!!!!!!!!! Called the BMC SERVICE once to ask for part numbers for the GROMMETS in the oil tank. Was told you get them with a new oil tank. I ask why I could not get them and was told because of EPA the BMC tests their new tanks for leaks before installing or selling them!!! WELL,WELL, I just fixed the oil tank myself and saved the price of the oil tank($146.35) P/N Q0110.B(62417-97Y) In buelling red{BUE}LLISTIC and/or Hardley-Harley | ||
| Jreichner |
I have a general question about cooling. I do some city driving and we have been hit with a few heat waves lately. I was just wondering if it is worth getting a oil cooler or the new cooling fan that Buell is offering or both. | ||
| Ara |
Jreichner, I had similar questions concerning my S3 about four years ago. I got stuck in traffic on a very hot summer day on the Washington beltway, and the bike didn't like it at all. It wasn't the heat, it was the fact that I couldn't keep moving and get air across the cooling fins. If you can keep moving, the engines have sufficient cooling capacity no matter how hot it is. But if you live where heavy traffic and a lot of stop-and-go is the norm, you might want to look at that fan kit. I don't live in a heavy traffic area (I was in Washington only temporarily), so I went with a Billit-Cool. Russ | ||
| Hootowl |
I have the fan on mine. Makes a big difference. It's spendy though. Also added an oil cooler later because I moved to Houston. | ||
| Blake |
Lafayette, Please share! How did you seal your leaking oil tank? |
