| Author | Message | ||
     Sekalilgai |
So after a few miles (ok a tank and a half) on my new-to-me Uly confirmed what many of you have posted...fun-zone between 3 and 6k and between 1 and 3k...well, kinda burbly. So going around corners and such it was simpy a matter of keeping her in the sweet spot, no biggie cos she sounds soooo sweet. However around town and the two sharp, rising 90 degree turns on my driveway resulted in mucho clutch slippage. After tooling about tonight I thought I'd check to see if warm TPS differed from cold... no change here. Sitting at a stop light though I could feel that boom-bada-boom-bada-bada... So I did pulled down the map and did the calculated the average as per Treadmarks directions, but I kinda wussed and paid close attention to those cells farthest from the calculated average and moved them about halfway to average. On those already around average I left alone. Net affect, the 4 cell average remained the same. I fired her up and she still rumbles and quivers a bit so I thought..well maybe not enough eh? To be sure though I took her out on a little ride and MAN WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Holy smokes, what was fun from 3k on up has now expanded down to 2k on up. So I took her into town and did all those slow speed, start and stop stuff around traffic and lights. OK I still need to shift to 1st, but far less modulating of the clutch now and you could just about lug her about if so inclined. My idle still bounces about a little but I'm most pleased. The driveway?..no sweat. So instead of keep it up above 3k, it is now 2k...fabulous! Thanks Treadmarks  Ken | ||
| Sekalilgai |
I shouldn't forget XOPTI as well, your posts have been very educational! gracias | ||
| Treadmarks |
Your quite welcome brother Ken, and welcome to the dark side.  Careful you don't stray too close to the darkness. If you find yourself pulling off your dingleberries, installing kick ass headlights and 08 trees, then there may be no turning back. I would like to thank Mike (XOPTI) as well, as it was him that gave me the courage to play with the maps to start with.  Whoo Hooo..I'm famous.  | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Can someone post the LINK to Treadmarks "Square Idle" thread - searched, but can't seem to find it - thanks. . | ||
| Treadmarks |
Bada BOOM Baby | ||
| Sekalilgai |
Hmm Treadmarks Neat looking peepers on your Uly there ...say anyone have a set of stock headlights for sale? Got me an idea.... | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Hey Sekalilgai, Great job. Any chance you can post the exact values that you used? Thanks . | ||
| Sekalilgai |
Don't have them on me, but my front average came out to 68.5. The 'high' cell was 78 so I 'stole' 4 from it and distributed to the two low cells. The remaining cell was already at 68. I'm pretty much a novice at this so YMMV eh? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Thanks S., And just to clarify once again, these were/are the same 4 cells (as seen below) that TreadMarks set at 77 ... correct??  . (Message edited by johnboy777 on March 12, 2008) | ||
| Treadmarks |
Try 77-75 front and 72-70 rear.  | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Hey Treadmarks - mine, an '07 Uly, is bone stock... i imagine the cell values on yours work better for a more modified steed, such as yours.... no? | ||
| Treadmarks |
Jb, There won't be but a couple of points difference at idle. Drop two points and fire for effect.  You can always put it back, ifin you don't like it. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Thanks TM ... good point. FWIW...just went to garage and checked my maps. Came up with the following for the 4 cells in question: FRONT 78 72 61 64 REAR 63 70 56 54 John. | ||
| Sekalilgai |
Uhm sorry for the late response, yes the four cells you highlighted was where I was playing in. FWIW I did log some idle data after warmup and the engine pretty much sat in the 1000rpm/15TPS cell the whole time, just kinda wandered about in it. If the ECM does interpolate, then the neighboring cells would have some impact at the 'fringes' I suspect. I like TM's 77-75 suggestion....might have to get a tad more aggressive. I'm going to see how she runs from cold first (when all the WUE is in play). Actually I just spent my lunch hour glued to the zillion posts on TM's 08 fork conversion. (next winter!) (Message edited by sekalilgai on March 12, 2008) (Message edited by sekalilgai on March 12, 2008) | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Sekalilgai: "Don't have them on me, but my front average came out to 68.5. The 'high' cell was 78 so I 'stole' 4 from it and distributed to the two low cells. The remaining cell was already at 68. I'm pretty much a novice at this so YMMV eh?" Sekalilgai ... if your front map went to 68 in all four cells (correct?), where did you put the 4 cells in your rear map? Thanks. . | ||
| Id073897 |
No need to do this over-exactly, as idle is in closed loop and the ECM will adjust the mixture anyway. Regards, Gunter | ||
| Sekalilgai |
Johnboy If I had done it (which I prolly should've) exactly as TM suggested, then it'd be 68 in all four cells. I just pulled up my stock (modified map is on another computer at home) front map and it is: 78 68 67 62 So instead of doing 68 68 68 68 I was a big chicken and looked at the 'gap to mean'...kinda like Hamming distance if I recall what I did was something like (I did two passes) 74 70 67 64 But I'll check. Did pretty much the same thing for the rear map. Since it is an easy mod, I'll probably do the TM 'square' as well. | ||
| Sekalilgai |
Yup Gunter is right ... hence my curiosity as to how it'll run this evening from cold ...before close loop kicks in... Personally I'm thrilled not to have to abuse the clutch  | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Got it...thanks Sekalilgai. . | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Stupid question. I have the Race ECM. Can I still do this? | ||
| Maximum |
Yes you can! ECM Spy is the bomb! | ||
| Treadmarks |
Hey Fatty. I don't think it matters which ECM you have. I am sure someone will LMK if I'm wrong tho. My ECM is stock with XOPTI EEPROM. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I think Barker has ECMSpy. I'll have to see if I can score some time with him and see if we can figure this thing out. What are the potential negative side effects (rough cold starts, lower fuel economy, power loss)? | ||
| Maximum |
Well..a friend of mine made his idle fuel too rich and my, I mean his bike would not start. Save a backup copy before you start messing, just in case you screw up like me...I mean my friend.  | ||
| Treadmarks |
My friend did that too.  | ||
| Glenn |
Hi Treadmarks, I've been following this "square idle" for a while now and have a few questions made worse since my Uly is in another state and I can't do live testing on it. I looked at you link "Bada BOOM Baby" and am wondering about these steps after I've done a TPS reset: 1) I downloaded my fuel map at idle and have exactly the same values as Johnboy777. Why not just average those values and burn that to the ECM and see how it works? 2) Why is it necessary to lower the TPS degrees to get the 4 cells highlighted? Is it to test the new settings to make sure that it will idle correctly and then you burn it in to make the settings permanent? 3) This quote from the link says "I turn the adjuster too much up at first and back it off till i get the posting correct on the map". Is this an increase within ECMSpy using the up and down value changes at the bottom of the fuel map table? 4) My TPS/RPM column in the fuel map has all values greater than 0 but your's appear to be all 0. What's up with this? Thanks | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Glen: "I downloaded my fuel map at idle and have exactly the same values as Johnboy777" Wouldn't all Stock '07 Uly's have exactly the same ECM Fuel Maps? Glen: Why not just average those values and burn that to the ECM and see how it works? Like TM said - try anything, you can always change it back ...FWIW, I plan to try 'Sekalilgai’s Hamming Idle' first, then 'Treadmarks Square Idle' ... thinking that there are less changes in Sekalilgai’s....taking smaller (less drastic)steps at first to see the difference. The stock '07 front to rear maps have a difference of *13% between the two ... (*on my '07 uly maps if the 4-cell values are averaged out). I tried to maintain that relationship and ended up at 12% or so i think. The adjusted maps also flow better (i.e., within the lateral rows left to right and within the horizontal rows bottom to top) I'll try it out later in the week and report. Here are the changes that I loaded tonight: STOCK MAP FRONT 78 72 61 64 ADJUSTED MAP FRONT 76 72 68 66 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STOCK MAP REAR 63 70 56 54 ADJUSTED MAP REAR 70 64 60 58 . (Message edited by johnboy777 on March 12, 2008) | ||
| Sekalilgai |
Hey John My figures I guessed were correct. Did about 140 miles today before tank light came on. Not much difference in cold start as far as I could see. With the teeny stock shield, interstate riding is not without some buffeting, actually pulled the screen off altogether and air was cleaner...go figure must be turbulence around my spare tire. Back to the maps, I hadn't actually done due diligence meaning I haven't baselined tuned the bike (yeah what business have I mucking about fuel maps!) and so that is to come. Nice thing about the ECMSPy is it is reversible plus I've been rather timid in my mods ... apparently with results that aren't nearly so! Ken | ||
| Treadmarks |
1) I downloaded my fuel map at idle and have exactly the same values as Johnboy777. Why not just average those values and burn that to the ECM and see how it works? Hi Glenn, That would be a good place to start. 2) Why is it necessary to lower the TPS degrees to get the 4 cells highlighted? Is it to test the new settings to make sure that it will idle correctly and then you burn it in to make the settings permanent? My goal was to place the engine idle at the bottom two rows of the fuel map , as I understand it is designed to work. The problem was that the engine would idle too low and become unstable with the fuel map I was using. Increasing the fuel a few points allowed the engine to stabilize in the four highlighted cells, then squaring the numbers made the idle very solid and consistent. 3) This quote from the link says "I turn the adjuster too much up at first and back it off till i get the posting correct on the map". Is this an increase within ECMSpy using the up and down value changes at the bottom of the fuel map table? This is referring to the mechanical idle adjust cable on the front left side of the bike. 4) My TPS/RPM column in the fuel map has all values greater than 0 but your's appear to be all 0. What's up with this? My fuel map in the picture above was a custom map provided by American Sport Bike. Out of respect for the vendor (who is also a board sponsor) I declined to post the values of his map, except for the four idle squares which I have modified. Before everyone gets carried away squaring idle fuel and fouling plugs or flooding engines, take a minute and think about the concept in general. For me, squaring the idle helped me to enhance my idle/off idle driving experience by patching something I felt was inferior from the factory. Buell has EPA regulations to pass... I don't. I was so unhappy with the bouncing tach and decell popping and intake sneezing from a 10k motorcycle that I took matters into my own and made a change that worked for me. In retrospect, "there is no substitute for a good fuel map/EEPROM that is custom tailored to your specific needs. While the map I had produced great power and fuel economy, the idle quality was lacking-just like the stock map. This is where the square idle came from. EcmSpy has so many possibilities in the hands of a good tuner, that for a relatively low cost you can have a map/EEPROM package that addresses the idle quality and drivability issues that we have come to call character. | ||
| Id073897 |
My goal was to place the engine idle at the bottom two rows of the fuel map , as I understand it is designed to work. From the ECM's side of view, every TP/RPM combination below the Upper Idle RPM Limit and Upper Idle TP Limit is "idle". IIRC the limits are 1400 1/min and 20 TPS 8bit. As said before, idle is in closed loop, so regardless of the values in the map, the ECM will adjust the mixture to somewhat stoich as soon as closed loop is enabled. During warmup the engine is in open loop, so a bit care should be taken not to put badly wrong values in there. During idle the TP is constant, so it's sufficient to equal/average the fuel map bins row-wise. Those who want to walk the hard way could disable Idle Closed Loop in the system settings and try their luck then. Regards, Gunter |
