| Author | Message | ||
     Blublak |
Hmm Jose.. would you accept a change to 'Superbike lites'? Keep it as Formula Extreme - Just (once again) make it 'extreme'.. say 170bhp limit (on all machines) and 375lbs minimum weight.. After that, it's 'Run what ya brung' and wide open to any and all makes and configurations.. This would make Suspersport once again a 600cc only class. Then you've got the 'Thumpers' and the 'Sport Twins' in their own classes.. Still 5 classes.. 1000 IL4 /1200cc Twin Superbikes 'Extreme' machines. (extreme again and much more open) 600cc Supersports Sporting Twins (basically the same as current Moto-ST). Thumpers. I like the Superpole idea and the same day Superbike races as per WSBK. Friday - Morning practice for all classes. Lunch Afternoon practice all classes and qualifying for Supersport, Moto-St. Saturday - Morning Practice for all classes. Superpole for Superbike. Qualifying for Thumper, FX Lunch Supersport race Moto-ST race Sunday - Morning Practice for Superbike, Thumper and FX (in that order). Superbike Race 1 Thumper Race Lunch FX Race Superbike Race 2 Pretty much the same thing, but some minor tweaks maybe? Hmmmm.. I wonder if we can get a meeting with Edmondson? | ||
| Trojan |
I thought that the FIM was talking about taking the 250GP's to 4-stroke anyway. I thought they were talking about 500cc twins, or something like that. I think it would be great if they did, and agree that it would be nice if it were brought back to the US (and factory supported). They are talking about it, but have been talking about it for years. The 250 class is a fixture for the next couple of years at least, and this is the 'feeder' class for the GP's that national organising bodies need to aim at. If the GP format changes then that is the time to change it for national series too, but in the meantime there is nothing there at all. National series such as FX and various one make series are great for spectators but mean nothing outside of the home country and give riders no international structure to work towards. Josh Herrin is a great case in point. Although he is doing well in US national racing at the moment, he is just marking time and should be in GP's and learning the ropes before he is too old. he already has 125/250 experience but now has no class inside the USA to progress him into GP's. This is something that not only national organisers but high profile national sponsors should be looking at. Maybe the AMA or ACU should be sponsoring a couple of young riders in GP's directly. | ||
| Blake |
"Outside of the premier class there is only one American racing in the GP series and that is Steve Bonsey in 125GP. Where are the rest going to come from?" AMA Superbike. A 200+ HP superbike is much closer to a GP machine than any 100 HP 250cc two stroke will ever be. How many American MotoGP champions came from Superbike versus 250GP? I think the main advantages in running 125GP and/or 250GP is being able to learn the system and the tracks. | ||
| Trojan |
The differences between a 200bhp Superbike and a 200bhp MotoGP bike are far more than you may think. James Toseland admits that he had to throw away almost everything he has learned about racing over the winter and learn how to race a bike again. braking performance is much greater, as is acceleration and corner speed. The biggest single difference though is the sheer amount of adjustability built into a GP machine compared to a production based Superbike, even when fitted with race components. Sure, knowledge of the tracks and GP system is a great help too, but learning to race a 'proper' race machine rather than a modified road bike is a huge part of the equation. If AMA Superbike (or BSB, Japanese or German Superbike for that matter) is such a great place to learn how to ride a GP bike, how is it we have had only one ex-superbike rider win a MotoGP title? Even then, how many races has Nicky Hayden actually won since he went into GP's? Superbike racing is great from a spectator and manufacturer point of view, but not as a breeding ground for MotoGP riders. Some GP teams are now recruiting 'junior' riders aged 11 or 12 currently racing minibikes, and grooming them specifically towards GP racing. These guys will never race a Superbike or even a Supersports bike, but will be brought up through the Spanish & European 125 & 250 championships before suddenly appearing (as if from nowhere) at the front of a GP race. Britain & the USA can bury our heads in the sand and make all the excuses we like, but it is a fact that pretty much every successful GP rider has come up through the established 125/250 route, and if we want more home grown stars then we will have to do the same thing or struggle. If the AMA or ACU were to run a properly funded and sponsored 250 national series then we would undoubtedly see more Brits/Americans at the top of MotoGP. All it needs is some serious effort on the part of the national organising bodies and some money in the pot. How about giving the winner of the national 250 series a fully supported season in 250 GP as a prize for winning? This would give young riders the motivation to race 250's and be brought into the GP system early, rather than trying to break in from outside later on, which is much harder. Josh Herrin, Chaz Davies, Jason DiSalvo and plenty of others could be running at the front of 250 GP's or even MotoGP now and getting noticed by MotoGP team managers if that system had been in place when they raced 250's, instead they are now in the very well paid but ultimately dead end (as far as GP's are concerned) Superbike/Supersports/FX loop. Because of our obsession with Superbikes, we actually make it harder for rising stars to race in GP's simply because UK/US sponsors are not interested in the lower GP classes. Rather than get paid a relatively large salary to ride in domestic Superbike/supersport, these guys would have to pay for a decent 250 ride and that is where the AMA/ACU and national sponsors should be helping out. Chaz Davies would certainly be in a top GP team now if he was Spanish/Italian/German instead of British. The 3 young Brits coming up through 125 GP's now have been lucky enough to attract European teams and sponsors, purely by winning in the Spanish 125 series. The UK and US Superbike series are acknowledged to be the best domestic superbike championships in the world, so surely if the Spanish can organise such a great 125/250 championship and stepping stone to GP's then it shouldn't be beyond us? Just look at how many Spanish, French and Italian riders make up the bulk of the 125/250 grids in GP's. The vast majority of these have come through the Spanish 125 series at some time or another (as has Casey Stoner, Dani Pedrosa, Andrea Dovizioso, Alex DeAngelis, Sylvain Guintoli and many more). I would be willing to bet that more US/UK riders will enter GP's through the Red Bull rookies series and the MotoGP academy than will ever make it through the Superbike route. There will always be exceptions of course, such as Hayden and Toseland, but these are very much the exception and should not be used to prove that Superbike racing breeds GP success. | ||
| Elvis |
I may be alone, but I'm not a fan of Moto-GP. I like the idea that bikes in series like WSBK are tied to production bikes, and I LOVE the new rules that have made it possible to buy a 1098R for $40,000. I've always thought motorcycle racing is more interesting than auto racing because the machines are so similar to production machines. It seems to me the financial limits of racing production based machines is a much better way to control performance of race bikes than limiting displacement - particularly when WSBK type rules lead to better street bikes (I know, I know, manufacturers are always quick to tell us how their new bikes incorporate Moto-GP technology, but why not eliminate the middle-man?). And modern bikes are good enough that they can provide very entertaining racing - the few seconds Moto-GP machines can shave off Superbike times doesn't seem worth it to me. So with that in mind, I like the idea of keeping the WSBK rules for AMA. Doing that . . . and leaning toward higher homologation limits in the future could lead to $20,000 1098R's in the future (and if Ducati doesn't like the sound of that, KTM or Buell could try to fill that need themselves). I don't like the idea of a horsepower limited series such as the Canadian Superbike system, because that allows manufacturers to theoretically give us a crappy engines as long as they can modify that engine for better performance in the racing series (though there are obviously limits to that, but it still doesn't force the manufacturer to improve production machines in as direct a fashion as WSBK rules). But my preferences don't mean much, and I think we're likely to get a horsepower limited Superbike in AMA soon justified by the idea of closer competition. Maybe it comes from ethnocentrism, but I don't see any need to create a racing series in the US that's a training ground to send riders elsewhere. If anything, with enough money coming into a future AMA line-up, I'd like to see international talent coming here to race. | ||
| Trojan |
I may be alone, but I'm not a fan of Moto-GP. Like it or not, MotoGP will always be the pinnacle of motorcycle sport in most peoples view. Adopting a strategy of 'splendid isolationism' won't make it go away and will not make the US championship any more important on the world stage. If anything it will diminish it's importance, and less overseas riders will consider AMA racing if they believe it will not showcase their talents to the world. More money doesn't necessarily make a more competitive or interesting series, take AMA Superbikes for example. Mladin is paid more than any other rider with the possible exception of Valentino Rossi, so is under no pressure and in no hurry to move to MotoGP or anywhere else for that matter. So the whole thing just stagnates while everyone waits for him to retire. Take that a step further, with AMA racing being well paid but removed from World racing, and young up and coming riders will miss the chance of top factory rides because they will all be taken by ageing racers looking to boost their retirement funds. All racers should have something more to aspire to and MotoGp will always be it for most people. | ||
| Davegess |
I don't see the American series adding a 250 or 125 GP race anytime soon. The fans, who pay the bills, don't seem to like them so the promoters don't want them. The race promoters are not in the business of grooming guys to go to Europe, they want guys who bring the fans into the seats here. I don't know about the BSB but the US series pays very well so there is no financial need to move to MotoGP. I know the riders, especially when young, want to take on the challenge of racing the best in the world but the reality of it is that for a US rider the AMA series not only pays well but you can aspire to actually race it without moving thousands of miles from home, family and friends AND you can make millions of dollars doing it. I think the long run of Americans in GP racing that began with Steve Baker in 1967 and really took off with King Kenny was driven for a large part by the awful chassis and tires of the period. The HP grew so fast that the US riders with dirt track experience had an edge. They were used to riding in a situation where the only way to go fast was to slide the front and back tires. This worked just as well on pavement because the chassis and tires where so bad you couldn't get the power down in nay sort of controllable fashion. Now that the bikes work well the sliding thing is not that helpful. You still see guys do it on occasion but repeated use will ruin your tire and hurt your speed. I think we are going to see most US riders stay home. The GP packages that new guys get are seldom good enough to really give them a chance, look at Hopkins, so it is hard to move up to a competitive ride. Add in the culture shock for a young guy going to Europe and living away from home and it is not worth it for many riders. I think he is at the tail end of the American dirt track guys who win world titles. He may be the last for quite a while. His sliding style is not well suited to the current bikes. With all the engine management stuff and serious tire development we are going back to the era of smooth, guys like Sheene and Hailwood are the models for this generation, not King Kenny. | ||
| Court |
>>>.but the US series pays very well This is good news. In the waning years of my career, as I ease into the sunset years of my life, I could use a good paying hobby. Are there any age restrictions?  I can see the Gess/Canfield sidecar team. | ||
| Trojan |
I don't see the American series adding a 250 or 125 GP race anytime soon. The fans, who pay the bills, don't seem to like them so the promoters don't want them. If it is anything like the UK then it was the promoters themselves rather than the spectators and fans who killed off the domestic 250 scene. When Superbikes first kicked off in a big way in the early 90's promoters realised that they could make more money from racers by filling grids with production based machines instead of having to promote 'proper' GP derived race bikes. Spectators have always loved the close racing, smell and noise of racing 2 strokes but the fans have not been the ones making the choices unfortunately. As the years have gone by promoters and national organisers such as AMA/ACU have become more and more lazy and less apt to take a risk by running classes that are outside the 'norm' of production based racing. Just look at the huge rise in 'one make' racing, which is not only cheap to promote but gets big grids. Certainly the UK is awash with one make race series now from Triumph, Suzuki, Yamaha, KTM etc. All of which are pretty boring for the average spectator who can't tell one bike/rider from the other. Actual 'bums on seats' atendance figures are down compared to previous years, even though TV audiences for MotoGP have risen sharply. It will take a very brave promoter to get to grips with the general decline in 'thouroughbred' race bike racing and re-introduce the GP formulae, but it will have to happen if we are to get more domestic riders into GP racing. Here in the UK this is starting to happen with the new ThundersportsGB (www.thundersportgb.com) promoters running GP2 classes, which is a mix of GP250 and 600 4 stroke competitors, and is a step in the right direction. What we need now is to take it a step further and get a well heeled sponsor willing to take a 250GP rider/team on a long term strategy for GP success To suggest that the US lacks the talent necessary to compete in GP's because the era of rear wheel steering has gone is a little unfair on the new generation of US riders coming up, some of whom have never raced dirt track at all. Jason DiSalvo, Josh Herrin and Steve Bonsey (to name just 3) are all smooth riders in the modern style and all would go well on a 250 or 800 GP bike given the opportunity (and probably better than Hopkins/Hayden if the truth were told, simply because their riding style would suit the bikes better). | ||
| Benm2 |
The funny thing is that the 250GP class offers more passes / close racing than the others. The 2-strokes have all but stopped development, and all the bikes are pretty evenly matched (at the front at least). The 250 riders put passes on each other that are just insane, and the races I've watched have been close till till the end. There's much less "dominant species" crap like the Duc in MotoGP or Suzuki in AMA Superbike. It looks almost like a horsepower-controlled class to me. NASCAR is purposeful in its pursuit of hp equality (at the front, again) without actually measuring it. That focus on car equality (and the pace car) produce racing that usually stays close till the end. Regardless of the interest in watching the always-turn-left crowd race, the top NASCAR drivers have put in some impressive performances in road-course cars: the series produces good drivers by trying to keep the machinery equal. As far as fan base goes, it seems like there's little direction to go in but up. Ruling out GP-class machines as "unpopular" based on recent AMA history just seems wrong to me. Also, what US racing events (in this arena) draw the most spectators? Laguna, perhaps? | ||
| Davegess |
Matt, I don't mean to say we don't have the talent just that the US offers a pretty good career path for them and lacking the 250 GP bike thing hurts them and dirt track experience (which is rapidly becoming a thing of the past for RR anyways)does not help. Personally I would love to see the US championship go back to the old Grand National format; Half dozen road races, miles, half miles, short track and TTs for flat track and add in a couple of motocross or enduros for good measure. Maybe get another guy as good as Dick Mann, able to beat the best in ANY kind of motorcycle race. Never gonna happen but those guys were really bike racers. I don't think the AMA killed off 250 two strokes. Back when they ran the same guy (I can't remember his name but he was unbeatable for several years) won every race and usually by a big margin. the fields were thin and the fans would go take a piss when they came out. | ||
| Benm2 |
Rich Oliver. | ||
| Trojan |
the fields were thin and the fans would go take a piss when they came out. The fields were thin because the class was not supported by sponsors or organisers. The US had some excellent 250 Champions before the AMA decided to concentrate on 4 stroke racing, from Richie Oliver to Roland Sands. I think it is a real shame that the 250 class (and it's 4 stroke replacement) will not be supported in future. | ||
| Blake |
I still hold that a full-on superbike is closer than anything else to a MotoGP machine. So I don't see the point wrt 250GP machines. I concede that the GP series advancement is by far the path most chosen by eventual MotoGP champions. That is an entirely different issue versus which other class of machines is most comparable to MotoGP machines. Also, if it is true that compared to Superbikes, MotoGP "braking performance is much greater, as is acceleration and corner speed" then why do the Superbikes, on spec tires no less, run comparable lap times, certainly much closer laps times to MotoGP machines than any 250GP machine? (Message edited by Blake on March 11, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
I do not like two strokes. The noise is extremely anoying to me. I'd much rather go to the Laguna MotoGP as that weekend will also see AMA Superbike series racing. The MotoGP at Indianapolis will have 125 adn 250 GP. Yuck. The sooner they replace the two strokes with four strokes in all the GP classes the better. | ||
| Blake |
"The fields were thin because the class was not supported by sponsors or organisers." Because not many people are much enthused about watching two stroke racing. It certainly doesn't much help sell any bikes on Monday, not in America where two stroke street bikes are no more. | ||
| Jlnance |
Like it or not, MotoGP will always be the pinnacle of motorcycle sport in most peoples view. Adopting a strategy of 'splendid isolationism' won't make it go away and will not make the US championship any more important on the world stage. I have no doubt that you are right in what you say. But the US is a very large place, and from an internal perspective, isolationism works. NASCAR certainly isn't going to buy into the notion that it's riders should "graduate" into Moto-GP. They will create career paths that keep riders in NASCAR races. The rest of the world may not respect this, but if the domestic fan base is large enough, that doesn't matter. | ||
| Blake |
"Like it or not, MotoGP will always be the pinnacle of motorcycle sport in most peoples view. Adopting a strategy of 'splendid isolationism' won't make it go away and will not make the US championship any more important on the world stage." I missed that. Lemme see, in the past three decades, how many MotoGP championships have been won by Americans? Reality can be harsh. American riders have won more MotoGP World Championships in the last 30 years than riders from any other country, with all 15 titles coming since 1978. That's more than double the total from No. 2 nation on the list during that span, Italy, with seven titles. | ||
| Blake |
That's so tasty, it deserves repeating... American riders have won more MotoGP World Championships in the last 30 years than riders from any other country, with all 15 titles coming since 1978. That's more than double the total from No. 2 nation on the list during that span, Italy, with seven titles. | ||
| Trojan |
Also, if it is true that compared to Superbikes, MotoGP "braking performance is much greater, as is acceleration and corner speed" then why do the Superbikes, on spec tires no less, run comparable lap times, certainly much closer laps times to MotoGP machines than any 250GP machine? Modern Superbikes are still leap years behind MotoGP bikes in terms of technology. If it were the case that they were comparable then pretty much any of the Superbike riders could jump on a GP bike and win. As it happens the only riders to have done that in the history of Superbike racing are Nicky Hayden, Chris Vermeulen and Troy Bayliss, who between them have scored just 5 wins in the MotoGP class. Since changing to the 800cc spec the record of ex-superbike riders has been even worse. However look at the ex-250 guys that are suddenly at the sharp end of MotoGP in their first or second season and you will see that the 250 guys are in the ascendancy. Just a look at the results from last weekend show the top 5 were all ex-250 graduates. Only Toseland breaks the cycle at the moment. American riders have won lots of World Championships over the last 30 years, but that has very little to do with the AMA race system making them more competitive and giving them a 'leg up' (other than their dirt track 'rear wheel steering' expertise that is). One of the reasons that US riders were once the favoured option by teams in GP is that, when you have a world champion from a particular country it tends to focus attention on other riders from the same place. The same thing happened when Mick Doohan was world champion - we saw an increase in riders from Australia. Once Kenny Roberts broke the mould and won in Europe it opened up a whole rider market that teams had not considered previously, and also made it easier for US riders to get noticed by teams in Europe. Kenny opened the door for Rainey, Schwantz, Lawson, Spencer & Kocinski to follow him into GP racing, and these were certainly helped by the marketing dollars and the strong condition of US racing at the time they made it through. All of the above also rode 250's by the way These days, since tyre and chassis technology have made the rear wheel steering technique obsolete (and less US riders are learning on dirt tracks anyway) the rider market is wide open and favours riders with smoother riding styles. We are now seeing riders coming through from countries that have no tradition of providing GP class riders, such as Hungary & Turkey. As the AMA moves further away from GP rules (and WSB rules as well) there will be less and less US riders in a position to make the jump to GP racing, which is a shame. It is particularly ironic now given that the US now has 2 GP's every year. What I would say to anyone in the US who has never seen a world class 250 race is this. Get a ticket to Indianapolis now before it is too late! You will not beleive the sound, smell and close racing that makes Superbikes & MotoGP look dull in comparison | ||
| Blake |
"Modern Superbikes are still leap years behind MotoGP bikes in terms of technology." Then why are the lap times so close? "If it were the case that they were comparable then pretty much any of the Superbike riders could jump on a GP bike and win." Who said the machines were comparable? I said that the lap times were comparable. Any Superbike rider?  It's tough to argue that logic.  | ||
| Trojan |
Any Superbike rider? Ok, I should have said, any TOP Superbike rider. Why doesn't Mladin try his hand at MotoGP? Oh yes, he did a few years ago and was nowhere ;) Lap times are only comparable on a handful of circuits that tend to suit the Superbikes. At other circuits the gap is huge and at some the 250's are probably quicker than Superbikes. At the end of the day, if Superbikes was a good breeding ground for GP riders then we would have seen more superbike riders doing it and succeeding. The bare facts are that it is the very small minority of very top Superbike riders that have made even a small impact on MotoGP, and they are the exeption to the rule rather than the norm. GP riders such as Biaggi, Barros & Checa moving to Superbikes are generally able to run right at the front straight away. Unfortunately the same has not been true of riders coming the other way except for Hayden, Toseland, Edwards (although it took Colin a couple of seasons to get settled) and Bayliss. Of those only Hayden & Bayliss have managed to win a race. Of the other Superbike riders that have made the transition they have failed to make any significant impact at all. Mosthave lasted only one or two seasons before moving back to the 'deisel' class. We (The British & Americans) have made excuses for years in order to get rid of the 250 GP domestic scene, wether that be noise, pollution, small grids (caused by lack of support from the organisers) and every excuse in between, and now we are the ones suffering for it by not raising riders up for GP racing. If young riders are forced to go to Spain in order to succeed (and it is a proven fact that they do) then there is something very wrong with both our organising bodies. We cannot bemoan the lack of riders in the series if we cannot give them the correct apprenticeship in the first place. Casey Stoner even said of Toseland's performance last weekend 'Coming from Superbikes, which requires a different riding style, he's done a fantastic job. I was impressed with the way he performed so hats of to him'. Yet even the double world Superbike champion couldn't live with Dovizioso (on an 07 customer Honda) and Lorenzo, both also in their first MotoGP race and who both came straight up from the 250GP class. Here is another prediction for you.....Dovizioso will replace Hayden at Repsol for 2009 ;) | ||
| Benm2 |
I think that GP's produce closer racing than superbikes do in part because of the modification allowances in GP: ie there are mostly none. If Honda finds that their current GP frame doesn't work right, they can change it mid-season. Likewise for engines. That TENDS to level the field, given the exception of the current Ducati situation. (Plus, it might not all be the bike, given Melandri's finish) If a superbike chassis is "wrong" for racing, or an engine proves too delicate or peaky for a given race situation, the rules are such that the team can't really change it till a new model comes out. Good, bad or indifferent, the STREET basis of the motorcycle may require chassis/engines to be a certain way regardless of what Nori Haga has been asking for. Again, only Ducati seems to be willing to build no-compromise homologation specials for Superbike, and it shows in their results. I think if the current AMA promoter could work with the FIM to produce a new 250GP class based on four strokes (again, my vote for 500cc twins) that was factory-supported in the US, then there might be a clearer path to GP stardom. It would be best if at least one manufacturer of said 500cc GP machine produced a TRUE "customer" version, much like the TZ750 that helped produce such greats as Kenny Roberts. I'd say drop Superstock alltogether, let the big bikes play in Superbike, and do what can be done to level that field for closer racing. I don't know how that could be done other than hp controls. The GP class would be cool, especially with both factory support & customer machines. I'd bet that at least one or two builders in the US would take a crack at building their own if the purse was right. I'd drop the 600's too, or just let them into MOTO-ST in the top class, with the corresponding 120HP limit. | ||
| Davegess |
Matt, I don't think the American motorcyclist gives a rat's ass about MotoGP. Heck the vast majority, I would hazard a guess that it would be 90%, don't care about road racing of any sort. 200,000 bikers at Daytona every year and under 10% of them attend ANY of the road racing. 30% might have a little interest in motocross. When you start talking 125 and 250 GP style bikes in the USA you are talking about a minority of a minority of a minority. The USA doesn't have a feeder system for the MotoGP because not enough people care to have one. The motorcycle ticket buying public doesn't care. The AMA and race promoters don't care 'cause they can't sell tickets. | ||
| Trojan |
I appreciate that the GP class may be a minority, but unless it is supported then can you see the US keeping two GP's for very long? If tickets aren't sold out at Indianapolis do you think the organisers will be happy to stage the event at a loss in future? That experience would then put them off hosting any motorcycle event in future, leading to reduced exposure for motorcycling in general. If no US riders are present in GP's then ticket sales will inevitably plummet. We saw this in the UK when we had nobody in GP's, with the British MotoGP seling less tickets thana domestic Superbike race. Since the advent of the 800 class this trend has thankfully reversed, and we now see sell out crowds at every GP. GP's may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it is our shop window that non motorcyclists see and can relate to. Even people that know nothing about racing know the name Valentino Rossi. Unless spectators keep buying tickets and TV audiences keep watching, the organisers will just take the GP circus to countries that have lax tobacco advertising rules and lots of oil money to spend such as Qatar & China. Then we get GP's run at near empty stadiums with no atmosphere and no enthusiastic spectators to follow them. They just become another TV event. Formula One motor racing is already further down this route than MotoGP, with races planned for venues where the average punter couldn't even afford a ticket with a month's pay and the sport getting further and further removed from the paying public. This is a dead end policy that will kill the sport for everyone, wether you are a Superbike fan or a Road racer. | ||
| Davegess |
If MotoGP feels the need to have an American rider than the onus is on them to get one. It is not on us to groom one. I don't think we will have any trouble selling tickets for two races any time soon. I do get you point on the eastern races. If the owners and racers want to see the money continue to grow than TV and subsidies from governments is the only way to do it. I would like to think that ultimately it will kill the sport if no one is actually at the race track (this would lead to ticket prices that a regular person could afford) but i doubt it. As long as the TV advertisers and the guys who buy signage at the track are getting the viewing audience they want than why do they need spectators? I think we are fast approaching the point were the ticket sales will amount to pocket change and can be dispensed with. It won't be long before the races are on daytime TV live in China and you all will get to watch them on tape or live at 2 AM just like we do here in the USA (actually I can watch Formula 1 live but not MotoGP) | ||
| Blake |
250GP quicker around a track than a Superbike? Dude. Not even at Oak Hill Raceway. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Nice analysis of the world as it is today and how it got there, Trojan. "..It is particularly ironic now given that the US now has 2 GP's every year..." It is indeed. And I'm in favor of seeing 125cc or 250cc class racing here if it can be done. If it is tried and can't survive, c'est la vie. I'm thinking there have to be some kids out there that, with a path that leads them to it, will find a chance to be the next Cal Rayborn or Mert Lawrill, with or without the dirt track roots. I watched 100cc and up two strokes road racing on the West Coast in the 60's (Carlsbad Raceway?) and it drew good spectator crowds of all kinds motorcyclists in attendance. And even normal people too. :>) Don't ever underestimate American interest in watching motorized toys going around tracks. And don't listen to the people from NASCAR, DMG, USAC, IRL, etc., etc., when they say that all the other flavors of racing (other than the one that they are merchandising the crap out of) are not worth watching. There have been many types and levels of racing that "struggled along happily" for years. And were ruined by apparent success. I just hope that DMG does not do that to what used to be AMA racing. Jack | ||
| M1combat |
The Elitist Mentality is the root of the problem. It used to be that racers would win a championship or two on one type of bike and then decide they need to beat those other guys too. You don't really see that any more because everyone thinks that Moto-GP is the only championship that matters. Everything is a feeder series to GP racing? Why? I think Valentino should come over here and see if he can whup up on Matt. Stoner should come with him. Things like THAT would set the playing field more level. Why should we assume that Rossi is the best if he isn't willing to prove that he can beat the best the AMA has to offer on the bikes we use over here? Same thing with going over there... Schummi should come over here and race NASCARs with Montoya, then they should all go try their hand at the Baja 1000. OK so you're an old hat in F1 with the trophy room to prove it... Come over here and race outlaws then. I'd like to have watched John Force race FIA GT cars too... (ok, maybe the drag guys should stick to the straight lines... but I'll bet he'd get into T1 first every time though ) See my point though? Why should everything feed Moto-GP? Win two championships on a GP bike? Neat... Come over here and try it on a diesel twin in Moto-ST then. Get rid of the 250's or distance them from the GP bikes wrt riding style. That way they won't make the "perfect" feeder series for GP. It stagnates the rest of racing because everyone just wants eight GP championships. Get eight championships in eight different formats and THEN we're looking at a great racer. | ||
| Eboos |
^ Moto-IROC |
