| Author | Message | ||
     Alans |
Today was the 2nd day I rode my new bike. The first time was last Sunday, to bring it home from the dealer. Ambient air, about 55F. Today, I rode the 1125R for the second time. I'd received a call from the dealer that my plates were in. I rode into town to perform a few errands, including picking up the plates. Ambient today was about 80F. Leaving the barber shop, I rode in stop and go traffic for about 15 minutes. Mostly it was 'stop'. CT temperature was just over 200F when I rolled to a stop at the dealer. A friend who works there spotted me as I pulled up. We stood there BS'ing for a few minutes, and began to smell gas. I put my hand on the frame. It was very hot. Not so hot I couldn't hold my hand there 5 seconds--but almost. I told my friend about the story I'd read here, about the guy who's gas was boiling in the tank. What with that story, and the hot frame rails, I loosened the gas cap. Gas shot out like I'd opened a hot radiator. It sprayed him, and me, and the bike. I stuffed the cap back down quickly. He looked at me and said: That seems kind of dangerous. The dealer wouldn't let me drive it home (not that I would have) and gave me a ride. I told them to check the vent hose I'd read about here, and make sure it wasn't pinched. It wasn't. This is a California bike. | ||
| Interex2050 |
I know what you mean about the frame getting "hot"... I had a welt on my knee for a few days on several occasions. I am really glad I did not open the gas cap... | ||
| Jpfive |
It can't be normal for that rail to be so hot that it is painful to touch. Mine does not get that hot, or any hotter than my XB did. I suspect the cause to be an exhaust leak at the rear cylinder. Jack | ||
| Alans |
Jpfive, thanks for posting. Just to know that it's not endemic to this model is helpful to me. I'm looking forward to getting the issue resolved, and riding some more. For what it's worth, the Svc. Manager at the dealer thought there was an issue with the venting via a cannister of some type. I noted in another post, here, that someone else had their 'vent system' replaced for a similar issue, and that resolved it. I'm wondering if this is a Cali bike issue, only... | ||
| Bobup |
Alans "I'm wondering if this is a Cali bike issue, only..." you may have something there... I am willing to bet that ALL of the pre-production bike that made the "track-day" circuit before production had begun were NOT Ca. equipped bikes Mine is a Ca. bike and is being dropped off at the dealer today for then to figure out this fuel smell issue. I will post more when I get it back....hopefully next week. Luckily I still have my XB9SX to ride (up for sale....maybe not any longer) bob | ||
| Bigblock |
My bike had the venting issue causing tank pressure, excessive heat and fuel boiling. Also, hard hot starting, down on power occasional hesitation and a slight drop in MPG. They replaced the "vent system", meaning, they replaced the check valve on the top of the tank, which is just a ball check valve, so I was told, and they replaced the charcoal canister. The check valve has a rubber hose, which runs from the valve, through the groove in the airbox cover, to the charcoal canister which is under the seat. There is another hose from the canister that runs back to the fuel injection. Which was the cause, the valve or the canister, I don't know. It appears to have the solved the problems. | ||
| Bigblock |
Oh ya, it caused a real strong fuel smell, too. | ||
| Unibear12r |
As I understood it none of the track day bikes were Cali equipped. Owners of non Cali bikes have posted on the strong fuel fumes but it appears that only the Cali bikes "boil" or "blow". The Cali bikes are far more limited in venting ability compared to the other spec bikes so I wouldn't be surprised to find this worsens the effect. Alan I'll call to check status on my bike in a few and I'll let them know to go ahead and tear into mine to compare if they feel the need. In fact I would like it if they did. | ||
| Interex2050 |
hmm... Very interesting something else to look into | ||
| Unibear12r |
I gota say I like the crew AVHD. I talked to the SM (seems like a great guy) and they like the idea of using my bike to compare if needed. Turns out my bike is ready but I told them to keep it and use it for now. I still have a bike to ride so it's no big deal if they keep it awhile. | ||
| Unibear12r |
Interesting is... Doerman reported that he once had the fuel tank pressure problem and once had the O2 and fuel pressure trouble codes but they cleared themselves. Seems to be a rare thing. And possibly not really related for that matter. But I never trust coincidences. My bike had the same two trouble codes and cleared itself also right in front of the tech. Didn't pressure up the tank tho. The tech (with a lot of phone and fax help from the factory techs) found a part was missing from the FI. To be honest, I'm not sure that they are sure that the trouble codes and the missing part are actually connected. But it does appear that the techs are putting in quite a bit of time trying to solve these nagging problems. | ||
| Jos51700 |
I'm thinking that if it was a rear exhaust leak anywhere close to the frame, the O2 sensor would pick it up and the bike would run stupid rich. This is very interesting. I'm wondering if the garbagegas they tend to sell in California is spreading. Musclecar owners have had a number of various issues with fuel lately. | ||
| Alans |
Unibear12r, I agree about the Service Manager at AVHD. He is first rate. He's the one who gave me a ride home after they 'impounded' my bike. Prior managers would have left the problem of how to get home squarely in my lap. (I live about 14 miles from the dealer...) | ||
| Doerman |
Hi Glen. You were close, but not quite correct. I was riding in heavy stop and go traffic on a freeway and the ambient temp was warm (82F). 1) 20 minutes into the stop and go ride the check engine light came on 2) I stopped to get gas and when I took off the gas cap the tank was pressurized. 3) At home, I took off the air box cover and found that the vent hose from the front of the tank leading back to the charcoal cannister was kinked at the seat. I fixed that myself. 4) Two days later I stopped at Glendale HD and they checked the codes indication that there had been a fuel pressure problem and an O2 sensor problem. We discussed it and decided that the fuel pressure might very well have been triggered as a result of the kinked hose and an over pressured tank. They replaced the O2 sensor since they felt that was a standalone problem. Well, that was 2000 miles ago and I have not had issues re-occur since then even in very similar traffic/temp conditions. I hope that helps. Cheers Asbjorn | ||
| Alans |
To restate what Unibear12r said, it would seem there's a tank pressurization problem that is somewhat general, i.e. not confined to Cali bikes. This is evidenced by the 'fuel smell' a number of non-California based owners have reported. For the Cali bikes, the problem is sometimes made worse by our special EPA mandated equipment, and we experience an even greater tank pressurization issue, sometimes to the extent that we have a 'blow out' such as I experienced the other day... Annoying (to a new owner) as this might be, it wouldn't seem to be an insurmountable engineering problem (what do you engineering types think?). I have a good feeling that this will be resolved completely, and probably rather quickly (relatively speaking). Bigblock, I'd be very interested in hearing your report after you've done some slow-speed running (stop and go) in 80F ambient with that new canister/vent setup you've got, i.e. repeating the conditions that presaged the problem with my bike. That is, get the CT up to about 200F, then shut it down and let it sit 4 or 5 minutes...(touch the frame, don't open the cap. If the frame is hot--almost too hot to touch up by the airbox, but not quite that hot--then I'd say your tank is pressurized pretty good and you're going to spray fuel if the tank's full and you pull the cap). Yep, the next thing that comes to mind is: If in fact it's a vent/canister issue, are certain vents/canisters faulty, or, will they all fail, given the right (or wrong) conditions? Please understand this is all conjecture, just thinking out loud. Ok...Doerman posted while I was writing the preceding. It would seem as if he's here in Cali, has run in the same conditions I have (80F), and has experienced no issues with pressurization after the 'kink' was straightened out. This might indicate that some canisters/vents are faulty, or simply out of tolerance... (Message edited by AlanS on March 02, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
"it would seem there's a tank pressurization problem that is somewhat general" That is a huge assumption based upon next to no supporting evidence. I wouldn't jump to such a conclusion or even make such an overgeneralized assumption. The facts simply do not support it. | ||
| Alans |
Wow. You got me there... | ||
| Bigblock |
Got stuck in some slow traffic this weekend on HWY 1, from stop n go to 20mph, for less than 1/2 hr. No trouble, engine temp as high as 195, but it was only in the upper 60's, that's a far cry from the 80's. The hardest paRT, I had a passenger, this thing isn't easy in slow stuff with a passenger. The ol M2 treats you and your pillion much better riding 2-up at lower speeds, especially. She was especially complaining about the seat. Things got quite a bit better when I coached her to use the tank bag as a support to push against to help hold her back. | ||
| Alans |
I've only ridden my bike twice. The first ride it was cooler (high 50's), and there was no stop-and-go. There was no 'gasoline smell' after I shut down, after that ride. I didn't attempt to open the tank that time, so can't say for sure if it would have 'blown' as it did after the ride described in my first post. | ||
| Alans |
The explanation for the events described in my first post is a 'plugged' vent-filter canister, most likely precipitated by overfilling the gas tank. I had filled the tank to the brim, every drop I could get in. There is probably an admonishment to not do this somewhere in the Owner's Manual. In any case, the theory is that I filled it to the brim. The filter ingested a healthy snootfull, became saturated, and 'plugged' as a result, and when I got into stop and go traffic, and heat increased, venting was insufficient, and...voila'. I rode it home in 75F ambient, didn't do any stop and go, and had no issues. I am going to declare this issue resolved for my money, and caution others to keep the fill level about 1" below the little 'ledge' in the filler opening. (The vent feeds off the upper, right quadrant of the tank). If there are further developments, I'll post. Otherwise, this is a done deal. Don't overfill your tank like I did. Alan | ||
| Bigblock |
That makes sense, I filled my bike up a couple days ago, and stopped atleast a 1/4 inch bwelow the "ledge". I then drove less than a mile and parked her. I pulled the cap 1/2 hour later, and the fuel, now warmed up by the hot bike, had expanded to the point where it was ove rthe wledge and near the top. If your bike is good and warm, and you fill it to the top, when the new cool fuel is heated and expands, you could definitely have a problem. I got lucky this time, and there was JUST enough room for the fuel to expand. If you are not riding after filling her, I am making hte assumption here, it is best to leave the level down a bit from the top. If you are riding immediatly after filling, I would think this to be a near non-issue, as you will probably be using the fuel nearly as fast as it can expand I would still say, DON"T OVERFILL!!! As always,./.. YMMV THis is just my iopinion. WHat the heck do I know, anyways, I can barely spell... OR type... | ||
| Alans |
I filled my tank. Rode about 12 miles at highway speeds, in 80F weather, then shut it down for about 45 minutes. I started it after that hiatus (very hard to start), rode about 15 minutes in stop-and-go traffic, then shut it down again--at which time the problem ensued. |
