| Author | Message | ||
     Fresh |
CCryder, I suspect an existing weakness/crack due to manufacturing (one off thing), the dark brown area in middle of nut. Like to have large picture for more detail. hard to tell for sure without a microscope view. Simon says: all go dye check your nuts.  Fresh | ||
| Sem1 |
Henrik: Thank you very much! Last sunday my S1W started leaking motor oil from where the clutch cable goes through the primary cover, so I am preparing to replace the sprocket shaft seal. Your installation gallery is very helpful and encouraging. Now if I could only find someone in Finland who sells Kent-Moore tools... Speaking of tools, my shop manual is still crossing the Atlantic (I recently moved from the US to Finland and some of my belongings have not made it here yet), and I have not pulled the sprocket or clutch before. What tools are required for the job? I won't start before my manual arrives, but it would be nice if someone listed any special tools that are required so that I could order them in advance. Thanks. Cheers, Semi | ||
| Jmartz |
Thanks Fresh, I like your method and I'm going tp try it. Few things annoy me more about a motor than incessant oil leaks, especially when they get my foot. J | ||
| Rempss |
Still would like to figure out the change in torque values for the sprocket shaft nut from 1997 - 1999? Any ideas? Aaron do you use different spec for your older vs. newer bikes? Or anyone else who has older vs. newer bikes? Any difference in the components when you have had them open? Jeff  | ||
| Aaron |
I don't have the tools to properly torque that nut. I use the German torque spec, with a couple drops of Loctite like the book sez. (hey, I never said I was a pro at this ... and FWIW, I've never had an issue there) | ||
| Buelliedan |
Gotta love those German torque values. They always seem to be dead on!! | ||
| Henrik |
You're very welcome all. One advantage to the seal install tool I didn't stress is, that since it bottoms out on the spacer, it assures that the seal is installed to the proper depth. Of course now that we've seen what proper depth is, it should be possible to eyeball it. Semi: You'll need regular allen keys, and a ball end allen is helpful in getting the shifter arm off. Once you get in there you'll need a set of internal snap ring pliers for the clutch adjuster assembly. You'll also need an impact wrench to get the engine sprocket nut ( 1 1/8" ) and the clutch hub nut ( 1 3/16" ) off. I found the "folded up rag" trick to work well for keeping the primary parts from spinning when you remove and re-install the nuts. I used the same torque "specs" as Aaron for the engine sprocket nut - red locktite and Impact wrench 'till it stops moving (Gutentight  ). I used a handful of 1/4" x 4 1/2" bolts to hold the primary cover and gasket in place when I closed up the primary. Did I forget anything ? Reepicheep: they make sure to give you some of the "good stuff" to make everything seem nice and rosy during the procedure - no worries Henrik | ||
| Reepicheep |
Henrik... I can see it now. "Dude! You are like so sawing my femur man. Cool! Anybody got anything to eat around here?". I was able to get the engine sprocket nut off with a big half inch drive breaker bar (about 24 inches long) and standing on it. An impact wrench would have been a lot better, but the breaker bar worked. I tried both the towel and the aluminum bar method, and the towel worked better. The aluminum bar, when it lets go, REALLY lets go  . | ||
| Reepicheep |
Finally took the time to call Buell customer service again to get definate answers to a couple nagging questions, and wanted to put them here in the Knowledge Vault to save those nice people in customer service some trouble. I got Renee this time, and as usual, they were fantastic. Some 2000 M2's got an incorrect engine sprocket nut installed, that can back off and cause no end of grief. The build dates for these problem bikes were 5/15/2000 to 6/15/2000, the rest are fine. The bulletin is B-043. The primary chain tensioner switch to the new beefier units was done on 2/28/2000. If your build date is after that, you are fine. If your build date is before that and you have not replaced it, you are not. It more then likely has a broken backplate now, is grooving your primary cover already, and is wearing away until it has enough play to come free and ingest itself into your transmission. Unless you want the perfect excuse to get that baker 6 speed, go replace it now. Unfortunately, I don't know an easy way to translate VIN numbers to build dates, so if you don't already know your build date you may have to find that out. Special thanks again to Buell customer service. It's a shame they have to do the work the dealers should be doing... but they are doing it great! Bill | ||
| Davegess |
Bill, are you saying that ALL MODEL YEAR M2 built prior to 2/28 or only 2000 model year bikes have a problem? Dave Thanks for hte post BTW | ||
| Reepicheep |
I asked two questions... 1) What was the build date effected by bulletin B-043 and is my bike effected (and gave her the VIN). She rattled this off quickly, so she was probably looking at the bulletin. 2) What was the date that the primary chain tensioner was changed to the new beefier part? (she had to put me on hold for this one, so somebody probably had to be asked). I give them credit for being able to answer the second question at all, much less in less then a minute of me being on hold. They are VERY on top of what they are doing. Regarding the Primary Chain tensioner... I bet they are all models and years previous to 2/28/2000, but that is speculation on my part. I bet the higher horsepower of the newer engines pushed the stock sportster parts over the edge. The older engine tensioners don't seem to break as easily, but that could be just due to reduced torque of the lower powered engine, or maybe they were thicker, got thinner, and went back to thicker. Even if you have the older lower powered engine, I would swap out the tensioner on the next primary fluid change. It's not much work and not much money. The difference between the two tensioners is very obvious when you look at them (Aaron posted some great shots in the knowlege vault). I have been watching this section of the board pretty closely, and have yet to hear anyone pull one out and say "Mine was a thick one already". In fact, nearly everyone says "by golly, mine was broken also". They usually go on to post pictures of their grooved primary cover just to be a part of the "in crowd" These things are pretty insidious, because when the backplate cracks, it remains captive (for a while), and you can get what looks like a good primary chain tension adjustment. Then, when the engine is under load (which is an impossible time to measure tension), things are all wrong. Also, the cracked backplate then wears on itself and fails to support the shoe, and the whole mess will eventually break up and feed plastic and metal bits into your tranny. As far as the bad sprocket nut: the only ones I know for sure are the Cyclones, which stuck in my mind because I had one that might have been effected. Fortunately, it turned out it was not, though I did find out my bike was built on a Monday (10/4/99), which explains a lot Bullitin B-043 should say for sure, but I have never seen it. Any lurkers out there want to clarify? Sorry, the point of my post was to clarify, not to add more confusion Any lurkers or guru's care to comment? Anybody got a copy of B-043 they can paraphrase? Anybody with a pre 99 bike pull apart their primary and find a tensioner that is beefy like the new part? I know my 2000 had the wrong tensioner, and it scared the crap out of me when it split (thought I lost a main bearing). Bill | ||
| Fredx1 |
Weird. According to my build date, my 2000 X1's motor was the fourth built on a Saturday, January 15: 015/004. Saturday? Anyway I called BCS about the tensioner and was told "not to worry". Should I change it anyway? BTW the part number he gave me for the newer version is 39975-90A. | ||
| Ara |
Fredx1, take Reepicheep's advice and replace your primary chain tensioner the next time you service your primary. It's really, really cheap insurance. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I would worry. Exhibit A Exhibit B Exhibit C Exhibit D Exhibit E (by far the prettiest, with that nice pink hankee underneath It's a $15 part, a $5 gasket, and about two hours work, and gives you a chance to look around inside your primary and check other critical nut torques. I don't abuse my Cyclone at all, and mine was completely split but fortunately still captive in the shoe. Several others here had the exact same experience, and at least two people had one of the plates come free and sitting on the bottom of their primary. They dodged a bullet. I, for one, DON'T want Buell to make this a recall issue... it is a petty little thing, and they would spend twice as much on paperwork and wasted time then they would on actually producing the repairs. Parts are cheap, repair is easy, take the money they would hemmorage and spend it on bumping up the power on the firebolt. Just do it with your next primary fluid change. Heck, you can wrap aluminum foil around the muffler and bend it into a channel into a drain pan, and then you don't have to fuss with pulling the muffler or trying to wiggle out that drain plug. Frankly, I think I would almost rather pull the primary cover then remove the muffler. When you are putting the primary case back on, either use some gasket sealer (hylomar?) to hold it in place, or simply get some dowel rods small enough to go through the primary cover holes. Throw them in a pencil sharpener, thread them into the primary case, put the gasket over them, and slide the whole primary cover over. You can then thread them out one at a time and replace them with the real bolts. The worst part of the whole job was trying to get the old gasket material off, and that was probably only because I was being so paranoid about having to get every last trace of gasket off (which was probably not necessary). Bill | ||
| Sem1 |
Henrik, Thank you very much for the instructions on replacing the crank shaft seal! I am still waiting to obtain the 1 3/16" socket (not so easy to come by here in all metric Finland), but other than that I am all set for the job. One major disappointment: the Finnish importer failed to provide me with the improved crank shaft seal. Instead, they sent me the old style one. It seems like they are trying to deny the existence of the new double lipped ones. Cheers, Semi | ||
| Henrik |
Semi: you're very welcome. If you're still waiting for that socket, I'd suggest you try to get the right seal to install. It really does seem like quite an improvement over the old style. If the importer fails, try calling one of the good US shops - yeah, it'll cost a few $$ more, but may be worth it. Modesto, Topeka, Manchester comes to mind. Henrik | ||
| Kent |
Just installed the new double lipped seal. I just copied the seal installation tool on my lathe. I cannot believe how easy the new seal went in. It just pushed in by hand with 30 or so pounds of pressure. No driving was necessary, it just took a healthy push. I suppose it is due to the rubber coating on the new seal, it must be very forgiving. | ||
| Xldevil |
Hi.Have you ever seen this on a Buell or Sporty This is not an S&S case No,it´s a stock 5 speed Buell case, but this will work on a Sporty 5 speed case too. So long,Ralph http://de.photos.yahoo.com/bc/rssporty/lst?.dir=/Prim%e4r&.view=t | ||
| Ara |
Is that a belt primary drive with a dry clutch? How well does it work? I recall that belt alignment can be a problem and that dry clutches tend to be noisy at idle. It's different, that's for sure! Russ | ||
| Xldevil |
Right.That´s a dry clutch.It will be available in autum.Til now there are no experiences with this primary.It´s brand new developt.I don´t think that the alignment will be a problem like in Big Twins, cause there is only one case and you don´t have to aligne anything. So long,Ralph | ||
| Jmartz |
I wonder how they are holding back the oil. There is an interesting feature, a 3/4" or so plate attached to the "inner primary", that may be the clue. The system does appear to be wider than stock, not a good thing if it reduces lean angle clearnce. | ||
| Adaleb |
Could someone please post service bulliten B-043? Dawg, You were right! Front primary sprocket is loose. Hoping I can just clean the threads, locktight, retorque and be on my way. This with only 4500 babied miles. Gear rocks with no nut on, but snugs up OK when nut is run up. I think I caught it before major damage. does a new gear rock slightly on the crankshaft before being tightened? Naturally, I broke the shift arm and had to dremel one of the clutch cover torx bolts off to get there.... It just wasn't my day. I might pack it in too.... Dale I posted this on American Thunder, but now after seeing the threads here I am worried about just tightening things up. Please help. | ||
| X1glider |
I was looking at my X1's primary cover this morning. In the middle section, the paint is darker. It looks as if there is an area where the sport-trans is permeating thru the material but it doesn't feel wet. Now, I know this isn't really possible, but it is what it looks like. It's just a dark blotch about 12-14 square inches. No gaskets are leaking anywhere. Perhaps the dark area is the normal color and the lighter areas are faded paint? From heat? Does anyone elses primary cover look this way? It's the first time I've seen this. The big twins don't seem to have this problem, since their primary is a separate entity from the tranny. | ||
| Hootowl |
Maybe your shift shaft seal is leaking? | ||
| Blake |
Maybe your boot is rubbing the cover? | ||
| Ocbueller |
Blake, Sometimes even the biggest mysteries can be simply solved. But engineers are not usually accused of making things simpler.  SteveH | ||
| Blake |
The wise ones are. | ||
| Ptown |
Hi Aaron This was a posting by you in August 2001 on step by step summary on replacing of primary chain tensioner. I Like reading old post and the advise given and thought I can share some small experience to ease the task of slipping the primary cover back over the gearshaft with the minumum chance of damaging the seal. I noticed that the mechanic here in Berlin have put a piece of Heat Shrink over the gearshaft overlapping the end by about a 1/8 of an inch and heating it up to shrink tightly onto the shaft thus making it easier for the seal not to hook on the sharper contours and get dammaged. Hopefully this will also work for the other buellers. Regards Eugene | ||
| Jssport |
Can someone point me to where the info + pics on the M6 pri chain adjuster are? I remember Aaron posting some pics where the chain was wearing against the M6 unit and that he found this on several different bikes. I've gone through the archives here (back to Jan) but I can't find them. Anybody ?? Jim S | ||
| Mikej |
These should put you in the neighborhood. Searched for "M-6" with the quotes. 1 2 3 |
