| Author | Message | ||||
     Buellray |
I would be careful of adding any current meter to the main electrical system, especially if you have to run any length of wiring to do it. With the kind of current your talking it takes very little added impedance to get significant voltage drop in the system. However, you can get hall effect current meters that only wrap around the wiring rather then interrupt it. They measure the current in the wire by sensing the electric field created by charge passing through the wire. Not sure if they exist for this application but I have seen articles on how to build one. It won't hurt to use the meter for testing purposes only and it might not hurt if you are very careful about using very large gauge wire with nice connectors but it's one thing that will only hurt the problem your already having. Also, something to keep in mind. In this kind of system measuring voltage is almost a direct indication of how much current the charging system is providing. If you measure the no load voltage of the battery, say 12.5 volts, and then measure the voltage of the system under load if the voltage is above 12.5 volts the charging system is providing more current then needed. Your charging the battery. If it's below 12.5 volts the battery is providing current and the charging system isn't strong enough. Also, even with an ammeter in place you may not be able to measure the current the charging system is capable of providing. It will only provide what your asking it to. If you aren't using any accessories it's only going to provide what it takes to run the bike and charge the battery (if it needs anything at all). | ||||
| Sharkytattoo |
Working on your own bike is great. For a new bike with issues, you're going to need records to get anything warranty. The dealership needs to be aware of any issues to convey them on to the factory as well. Otherwise, you're just stuck complaining. Take it to the dealership and ask them to check current draw, A/C output, and static bleed. You have record of it this way and any future claims will be easier to process. p.s. Did I mention, check the grounds! (Message edited by sharkytattoo on February 25, 2008) | ||||
| Zac4mac |
Jeeeeebus you guys wanna quit harping about taking the bikes to the dealer already? I am NOT going to leave Loretta with ANYONE unless I'm SURE there's a problem they can fix. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Lots of us have been THE mechanic on OUR bikes for decades. Even if I break something in the process, I am the one that broke it, and I learn something. I don't hire somebody to do foreplay on my ol' lady, I won't hire somebody to hump my scooter either. Didn't know how to do that either when I started. Warranty is another issue, but I will make sure there's something there before I drop MY baby off......... end tirade Zack | ||||
| Thurstonbuell |
Zack ,thats freakin funny  but i do agree , unless she's left un-rideable i would'nt leave her with another man either ! cuz you might get to squeeze a ride in somewhere while they figure out whats wrong on someone else's Loretta ! | ||||
| Brad1445 |
You go Zack! not to mention sometimes after a dealer visit you yourself sometimes feel violated, not just the bike. | ||||
| Baggermike |
I agree with Zack why take it to someone who will screw it up when I can do it for FREE. I got home and checked the battery and is at 12.3 volts and I did not have any gear hooked up or my high beams on. Mike | ||||
| Fresnobuell |
REceived another call from my service manager...I was mistaken about the 7,000 RPM issue...PER THE COMPANY the bike will adequately hold a charge with running high beams with RPM as low as 2,500. I don't know if this is only for constant RPMs, or takes stop and gos into account. I don't have enough personal experience to confirm or deny this, so take it for what it's worth.... | ||||
| Zac4mac |
Everything I have done and seen corroborates that Harlan. Of the 277 miles I did Sunday, at least 220 were with Hi-Beams on and at least 150 were with the grips turned on too. I was on open freeway at 4-5K rpm. I rolled into the garage and got 13 volts at the battery(engine off) with my Fluke. Tonight, I plugged in my Tender, first time since last Thursday, and it went green in less than an hour. Z | ||||
| Unibear12r |
As an interesting counter point to all this... When I checked my 1125 it's voltages, warm and cold, were right there with what everybody else comes up with for the "normal" voltages on the 1125. So I tested my Uly. It ran about only 1/2 volt higher hot or cold, 4k or idle. Following the same voltage loss pattern as it warmed. Except!!! At hot idle the Uly put out LESS voltage than the 1125 by a 1/4 volt. Now I took that bike on a 7700 mile, 23 day trip a while back that was very hot then very cold, full of long high speed highway runs and long, slow, nasty traffic jams (both in the hot and cold) and the electrics never missed a lick. | ||||
| Baggermike |
What I like is that the acc outlet or heated grips shuts off if the battery gets low, at the least that tell me they new the bike charging system is weak. Mike | ||||
| Unibear12r |
It looks to me that the 1125's charging system is quite good enough to me. Except, perhaps, for those who want to use a lot of heated gear.  Maybe the guy who designed the alternator was as worried about pounds as electrons? Or never thought that those crazy Buellers would want to take a sport bike out in sub freezing weather and wear a ton of heated gear?  | ||||
| Cataract2 |
Uni, what were the voltage numbers you had? Please post them up. Zack, same thing. What were your readings with that last test? | ||||
| Fresnobuell |
There is definitely an issue with the electrical system. I don't see how that can be debated. What is confusing is the fact that some bikes seem to be affected and some don't. Aren't they all built the same? | ||||
| Unibear12r |
1125 cold prestart 12.63v cold idle 14.08v charging cold up to 4k rpm 13.95v charging warm idle 12.63v discharge warm up to 4k rpm 13.55v charging warm after shutdown 12.73v net gain to battery charge Uly cold prestart 12.78v cold idle 12.48v discharge cold up to 4k rpm 14.24v charging warm idle 12.55v discharge warm up to 4k rpm 14.10v charging warm after shutdown 12.83v net gain to battery charge Ok my memory is not the best.  Warm idle was almost the same with the Uly just a bit less. It was cold idle where the Uly was a lot less at .6v Cold run the 1125 was down by only .3v Warm run the 1125 was down by .55v The Uly lost voltage as it warmed but not as much as the 1125. Still the 1125 only lost .4v This is a lot like stat sheet bench racing as truthfully there is not much to be learned from these figures, and from just one test etc. If I was to be worried it would be more with the Uly on the lower idle voltages. I'm not as it has proven itself. On the other hand the 1125's warm run voltage is more than enough to run all the bike's equipment but it won't like the heavy loads of heated gear as much as the Uly if those loads drop the voltage much lower. Oh yes, the warm voltages for both bikes, both running up to 4k and idle was with high beams and fans which is a much greater load on the 1125. (Message edited by unibear12r on February 27, 2008) | ||||
| Zac4mac |
Cataract - here everything I've done so far... I think. Repost: 277 miles today, most I-25, up to Chugwater, Wyoming. Ran the Hi-Beams on the Interstate and the grips half way up and most of the way back. The little Kuryakyn voltmeter showed 2 green LEDs all the way, except at idle. When idling for a few minutes it would drop to one LED. When coming down from cruising speed, at idle it would flicker the yellow over 2 greens. In the garage: 12.7V in Diag Mode - Park wait 5 minutes for battery to recover from load in Park 13.00 VDC Fluke 77-III open ckt @ batt 12.3-12.4V Diag Mode - Run (engine off - Lo-Beams on) earlier tests:
Zack | ||||
| Baggermike |
Zack what are you using to test the battery, I have three batteries that I have charged and none will be at 13 volts when the charger is green, and read that a fully charged battery is 12.7 volts in the owner's manual. I just unplugged the charger and my battery read 12.81, my other battery that has been sitting read 12.71 I have my voltage meter tach hooked up but not the tach wire yet, so it will just function like the volt meter you got from kuryakyn. The weather looks not to good so I got to see when the rain or snow is coming so I do not know if I am going riding or working on the bike. Anyway I will post what I find out when I do go for a ride. Mike | ||||
| Zac4mac |
As soon as the garage door came down, I opened Diag Mode in Park and read 12.7 Volts. Either DM you choose, Park or Run, has a current draw. The draw is small in Park but significant. The Tail-light is lit and the controls(ECM) are powered and the front running lamps are lit. When I turned the switch back to "OFF" and connected my Fluke DMM the reading started at 12.7 but was climbing. Batteries do that after a load is removed. The Fluke has such a high input impedance(resistance) the battery doesn't see it as a load (of any significance). I gave it an arbitrary time of 5 minutes to equalize and measured at 13.00V. If I had waited longer, it would have climbed a little more, then start to drop again as the battery discharges internally. Zack | ||||
| Jpfive |
My battery will measure 13.3V when it comes off the Tender. I have heard this referred to as 'surface charge', and it quickly comes down if you put a load - such as fans or lights on, even momentarily. Static voltage on my Yuasa multi-meter is 12.8V when the battery is fully charged. When I turn the ignition on, in diagnostic mode, that drops to 12.4V on the Buell display and also on the meter. Jack | ||||
| Baggermike |
I did a highway run with my volt meter hooked up and with my 90 watt jacket liner on. first thing this morning I took the bike off the battery tender and battery read 12.8 volts. Before I went for a ride it had dropped down to 12.5 volts. I headed to the highway and the volt meter was showing 4 green lights and 1 amber light which is 13+ volts with my heated jacket liner on, if I turned the high beams on riding the highway it would drop to 4 green lights 12+ volts. I was riding home on the streets it had 4 green lights on 12+ volts. when I came to a stop only 3 green lights were on which is 11+ volts I got home tested the battery and read 12.3 volts. I am going out now and ride without my heated jacket liner and see how the bike does. Mike | ||||
| Ccryder |
Mike: Please try and document the RPMs when you take the voltage readings. The voltage will vary depending on the RPMs and the state of charge of the battery. Thx Neil S. | ||||
| Baggermike |
Neil all the battery info is taken at the battery with the bike off. I just got back from a run and did not go to 2 amber lights which would be 14+ volts going by to the booklet that came with the eclip gauge. I think I should measure the voltage with the motor running and see how close the volt meter is to the gauge. I just thought of that so will go do it now. before riding the bike I took a voltage reading and it was up a half of volt just from sitting so the bike is not draining on the bike and the battery most be really good. I went for a blast and with out anything extra and still only 1 amber light and when stopped 4 green lights. Bike is on battery charger and tomorrow I will do some more test. If anyone has suggestions that I can do I will try to do them and I have a volt meter. I take all readings at the battery with a volt meter. tomorrow I will do some running voltage test with the bike fully charged up. Mike | ||||
| Baggermike |
OK that is weird. I just tested the bike running with a volt meter at the battery and at idle it was 13.9 volts as the rpms increased the voltage dropped to low 13. Also the gauge was 4 green lights 1 amber light at all times. Mike | ||||
| Reepicheep |
Sorry if this has been answered before, but is the 1125 a permenant magnet alternator? Or a variable field strength (with brushes) alternator? If the latter, I *might* be able to explain what you are seeing Mike. Also, since this is getting pretty subjective with people declaring the charging system "broken", could you summarize exactly what you have added and removed in terms of electrical load? I am thinking of something like: + 90 watt heated vest + 15 watt heated gloves + 30 watt heated grips - 40 watt filament bulb - 40 watt filament bulb + 30 watt HID + 30 watt HID It would be good to see what your setup is actually demanding above and beyond stock to better understand the situation... | ||||
| Baggermike |
stock bike, low beams, gps, led shift light, and that is all that was running on the last test. Mike | ||||
| Baggermike |
Reepicheep I have only been using my 90 watt heated liner on and off but have gps and a shift light with seven leds and think both take very little power. From what I have seen and if I leave the charging system like it is then I probably can get away with a 60 watt jacket liner and 30 watt glove liners. I do want more than that and would be nice to have a totally heated suite with high beams on with some extra juice to spare. But that might be unrealistic and would be happy with just my jacket and glove liners and maybe socks for the sub zero rides. But I do have a Blast that will heat all my gear. By next winter the blast should be rebuilt with a big bore kit, cams, exhaust, head work, and ignition. Which then would be a Blast to ride. Mike | ||||
| Court |
I'd say we're in the "data collection" mode no one, until more than a couple folks can reproduce the same condition should be summarily declared "broken". Jumping to conclusions sometimes results in landing in the wrong place. What is the most continuous load anyone has run on an 1125R at a time? Could this have done any damage? | ||||
| Baggermike |
I think I might be the one that takes the lead on this by using my jacket liner and gloves for a long trip on the highway. I do not remember if I used my pants or not but the most watts would be like 120 watts for a couple of hours on the highway. I did have a bad voltage regulator so that might add to the mix of charging problems. I am no charging system wizard and I am learning as I go and can only report what I find. I hope someone can use my information that I find to help us get the bugs out. Mike | ||||
| Reepicheep |
Were those HID low beams? Or are you back to stock? I thought you were running HIDS? I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just trying to sort out what symptoms were part of a bad voltage regulator (that should have been fixed quickly with lots of apologizing) and what is just overloading a bike. I expect most sportbikes would be struggling when trying to pump out an extra 100 to 150 watts. | ||||
| Baggermike |
I have not installed Hid lights yet but the are the same wattage as the bulbs that are in there now so it would be no difference either way. 35 watts it 35 watts which the H8 stock bulbs are, and the hid bulbs are. Mike | ||||
| Baggermike |
Can anyone explain why when I tested the charging at the batter running and the voltage was 13.9 at idle and as the rpms increased the voltage went down as the rpms increased. Mike |
