| Author | Message | ||
     Ratbuell |
I'm going to be the devils' advocate here...my first bike was a 99 Cyclone. First bike...ever. No dirtbikes, nothing. I got a big tax check that year, I'd always wanted to ride, so I bought one. I went 8 feet, locked the front brake, folded the front end, and fell right there in the dealer parking lot. I still don't know how I managed to get home alive that day (God really does protect the stupid, I suppose), but every day got better and I didn't go down again until a battletrax day four years later (went down on the course). Nowadays I log over 25k miles a year between my bikes. I ride every day, rain or shine, and have actually been looking for a sidecar for my FLHP for wintertime use. Still stupid, I guess  That said, I ride the 1125 quite a bit now that I work at a dealer. I went to the class, on a racetrack, and hustled them around at 110% for a whole day. I have ridden them on public roads and in parking lots in addition to being on the track. Even with all my seat time, even on roads that I ride every day...things still happen surprisingly quickly on that bike. Give it gas, shift twice, and you're up around 120mph before the third gearchange. Just that quick. The bike is VERY capable, and can correct a lot of rider mistakes if you give it a chance. It cannot, however, defeat the laws of physics for you. Down is down, pavement still hurts, and Buicks or fenceposts hurt more. Learn the physics of a motorcycle before you try and run around on what is basically a superbike. Given your size, I don't know that I'd recommend a Blast for you. You'd look like a circus ape with a single-cylinder thong, and being that much bigger than the bike can actually cause control problems because you have to fold yourself too tightly to be able to move. I'd go for a used XB9 if you want to stick with Buell, or find a cheap used 500 or 600 metric to hack around on until you learn how bikes react to different inputs and situations. If you have the land, get a dirtbike to play with as mentioned above. Riding and getting some hours under your belt will allow you to be able to identify when you are lugging an engine; when you need to slip the clutch; when you need to get a foot out because you're going over. Get that experience on something more docile. The 1125 is a *runner*. Yes, it will behave at low speeds if it has to...but it would rather spend most of its life with the tach needle somewhere north of 8 grand. Sign up for an advanced rider course if your state offers them. Here in MD once you pass the basic course, you are eligible for the advanced course. It is still a "class" and not super-advanced, but they take a group of you out in traffic and show you some real-world riding instead of just keeping you on the closed course. I would also take the bike in and have it looked at, just to make sure (as mentioned above) about the stumble. It could be operator error; it could be an EFI glitch. Have the fuel odor checked as well. Have someone make sure the bike is absolutely 100%, so the only variable is the rider. Lastly? Enjoy your new hobby! It is addicting, all-powerful, and if you're not careful it can take over your life and your checking account! Fortunately I have an understanding wife...  | ||
| Sheridan_bueller |
Takis, My 1125R, at idle and in first gear is going 9-10 mph, and not liking it much without a bit of clutch feathering. If you were shifting from second to first slightly above that, the engine was probably just about to die on it's own. Especially without being broken in. Try the parking lot practice again, without shifting from first. You'll be able to go faster than you want to and at the same time, you'll be getting good practice with the throttle control. I can't stress enough, exercize your restraint here. It will very easily lift the front up with too fast a roll on or it will spin the tire. I always go through town in first gear. It is not hard on the engine and seldom ever gets over 4K rpms at the posted speeds in town. You can learn on a BIG bike but the advice posted above is all good and sound. We are all concerned for your well being as well as your family's. Please be careful and take it slow. And Don't watch Super Bikes! JJ | ||
| Sound_uly |
Keep the bike. Learn to ride it well. Use restraint. The clutch is your friend. Above all else, be safe! Ron BMW R1200GS Adventure BMW F650GS KTM 640 Adventure Ducati PS1000LE Buell 1125R - Oh yeah! | ||
| Dalton_gang |
As long as everyone here is playing big brother I guess I will give it a shot too. I think that one easy solution (if possible) would be to hack into the ignition and put a rev limiter on it. Then at least you could keep the power down to a reasonable beginner level. If you were to get a different bike to practice and develop your skills on, I am all for the dirt bike route. There is nothing like going out on a good dirt bike and freshening up your skill level. I am not talking about doing circles in a field. I am talking wheelies, stoppies, small jumps, medium jumps, downhill, uphill, skids, slides, etc. You know that you are getting a good work out when you dump the bike a few times. Better to dump a bike in the field than on the highway. I have been fortunate. Hit a couple of trees, landed some jumps bad, and took a few dives on the dirt but never on the street (yet). I can only imagine what you are thinking right now with all these people telling you what they think. I am sure it will all work out. I also cant help but thinking back to all the racing that we used to do (MX, TT, Flat track) and watching all the newbies with their overpowered bikes (for their skill level)either flipping at the start or taking out themselves and some other riders in the first turn, etc. If you decide to do the dirt bike thing, try a descent fairly modern 250cc 4 stroke. If you wanted to do a 2 stroke maybe a 105 or 125cc if you are under 200 lbs. Disclaimer: Everything I said is just my opinion. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Restraint is choosing not to do things that are unwise, no matter how attractive they may seem. Thats good. Clearly, you have that nailed, I'm not worried about you. The problem with "faster" bikes, is half the stuff that seems unwise is really a non issue, and half the stuff that seems absolutely harmless will eat you alive. The thing about faster bigger bikes is that you make your mistakes at higher speeds and at greater expense. The net effect is that learning where to apply restraint just ends up hurting worse Sounds like you had one lesson. I have a box of parts in the garage from some of my lessons. Another option would be to get something like a used KLR-250, KLR-650, DR-650... a street legal dual sport. Riding on the dirt (even just for fun) for one season will teach you things many riders *never* learn. And you can probably sell the bike after a season for almost what you paid for it. You might not even want to sell it at the end of the day, I like having both a street bike and a dedicated dual sport in the garage... and the dual sport was under $1000 to buy, gets 50+mpg, and I can replace both tires for under $100. I have less invested in my second bike then I do in gear... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Oh, and great thread by the way... lots of good general "new rider" information. No reflection on the original poster, the only difference between him and me is that he was smart enough to ask for advice | ||
| Jlnance |
Pariah - Welcome to Badweb. You've found a really great place with some wonderful people. This probably isn't how you envisioned your first thread going.  I know it's sometimes difficult to tell on the internet, but people are genuinely concerned about you. You're getting some good advice here. Feel free to contact me if you want to talk about any of this offline. If you click on persons user name, you'll get a page that can be used to send them mail. - Jim | ||
| Pariah |
Seriously, you folks are wonderful! It makes me glad to own a Buell... It was not without some trepidation that I posted here. I knew I'd get a lickin' from some folks, and that's fine, nothing I'm not used to. But I felt that the overall benefit would be worth it. Some of you, I would point out, however, despite your vast experience, have viewpoints that are in direct opposition to the stuff I've read in books. For example, it's generally not a good idea to teach your own family members how to ride, and, in spite of its apparent uselessness, the use of the rear brake is a good idea (see David Hough's, Lee Parks's or Nick Ienatsch's books). Also, according to the Idiot's Guide, there are some newer Ducatis and BMWs that would serve well as a beginner bike. I agree that the dirtbike thing is one excellent way to learn the ins and outs of motorcycle control, although some European folks (and, correct me if I'm wrong) like Valentino Rossi, did not cut their teeth on the dirt, but rather on carts and pavement. Actually, I'd love to do the dirtbike thing, but--- and Zac4Mac, not sure when the last time it was you visited Aggieland--- there just aren't bunches of fields around to do the riding without getting a trailer and going outside the city, and my wife would have to put her foot down on that. BTW, according to my 1125R manual: gear change,mph: 1st to 2nd: 15mph, 2nd to 3rd: 25mph, 3rd to 4th: 35mph, 4th to 5th: 45mph, 5th to 6th: 55mph (it says nothing about the need to feather the clutch below 15mph)... although I realize this may be necessary, like when starting out for example or intentionally utilizing the friction zone. But it should be possible to tell if an engine is chugging, dammit! I can tell when an engine is chugging, and perhaps I don't have my RPM numbers exact, but when I had engaged first gear, my engine was not chugging. There should have been some indication before a stall. There was none, and that's what has me worried. Keep the lickin' comin'...  (Message edited by pariah on February 26, 2008) (Message edited by pariah on February 26, 2008) (Message edited by pariah on February 26, 2008) | ||
| Davegess |
Twins can stall without any warning at low RPM, not as bad a a single, my GB500 would sometime be idling nicely at a stop sign and then just stop. One missed spark is all it takes at such low engine speeds on a single or twin. A light flywheel makes it worse. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Ducati markets their Monster 695 as an "entry-level" bike. Anything that makes over 70hp and weighs less than 400 lbs isn't entry-level. About the only BMW I could see using as a first bike would be one of the 650 singles, but then again you aren't looking at a sportbike anymore. You can't believe everything you read, here or in a book I guess now to address the stall issue - all I can do is agree with Davegess - with so few cylinders at low rpms, there's just a lot of time for that engine to slow down enough to stall if it misses even one spark. Take it to your dealer and have it all checked out, especially that gas smell since that's no good. | ||
| Ducxl |
CCryder said:The 1125r's engine is not designed for the low RPM's. Short stroke, low flywheel mass and, a tight engine all contribute to the problem you experienced at low rpm. I'll never forget,after many years on "long stroke" Harley/Buell type twins,buying my new leftover 996 Ducati "short stroke" twin. The lack of flywheel mass left me stalling frequently and often.Like the new 1125r these types of twins make little torque down below 3000 RPM.You've got to learn to feather the clutch. On long stroke twins there's enough torque at idle to(without throttling) let the clutch lever out easy and the bike will go. Not so on the short stroke twins,they'll stall out immediately. Keep,and respect the bike Pariah.You'll absolutely love it.Provided of course you don't have one with chronic BMC defects Oh yeah,welcome to the club | ||
| Reepicheep |
I bet its possible to disable the slipper clutch so you crash from lurching rather then crash from stalling | ||
| Wademan |
up until 7100 RPM (XB12S redline), the 1125R actually produces less peak torque than the XB12S (but the two bikes actually look the same up until 7100 RPMs)... only a fool would open the 1125R up to actually use the upper rev range on the road (I had been planning to do track days at Texas World Speedway, near where I live, so I thought having a redline of 10,500 RPM would be "useful"); Hey man, not to keep picking on you but the one fault in this logic is that the bikes are not geared the same. Although the XB may make more torque, the 1125 is putting more torque to the rear wheel due to its gearing thus making it less friendly than the XB... I think there are serious benefits to starting on small bikes compared to big ones. They allow you to focus on the more refined parts of riding (cornering, stopping, etc..) while not being concerned about having to much power. They also allow you to actually have fun when you are beginning. (small bike fast kind of thing..) Anyways I hope you figure out what will be best for you in the situation. Given your experience with cars, etc... your learning curve should be steep. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Takis - It's been 35 years since I was at A&M. Shoulda known better than to try to tell an engineer something. Even if it's for his own good. I pray you don't find out why we all said what we did, the hard way. Ride safe my hardheaded Buell-brother. Zack | ||
| Pariah |
Wademan, not sure what you mean. The 1125R has a 0.554:1 primary drive, 2.593:1 final drive. The XB12S has a 1.5:1 primary drive and a 2.407:1 final drive. The remaining gear ratios... from 1st to 5th, are pretty close. EDIT: there seems to a typo on the Buell web site. Not sure if the primary drive ratio is 0.554:1 or the reciprocal, 1.8:1. If it's the reciprocal, you are right, Wademan, and sorry for the oversight! Shorter gearing results in a faster acceleration, no? Like a Mustang with a 3.73:1 rearend versus a 3.55:1 rearend... the 3.73 is quicker off the line, but less top speed. Overall, the gearing on the XB12S looks shorter by the numbers to me. My guess is that XB12S is FASTER than the 1125R in the first 100 feet or so (in a drag race). So how is the 1125R less friendly? It would seem to be MORE friendly, at least from a gearing standpoint. Zack, I'm not rejecting what you're saying, believe me, I'm taking it all in. But, Man, when you were last here, were women allowed as students?! Wow... Now around CS, you can't just go off-roading. There are laws and I know people who've been arrested off-roading with their trucks on private land. (Message edited by pariah on February 26, 2008) | ||
| Hwyranger |
Hold onto the 1125. Just keep it in the garage until you can REALLY enjoy it. I weigh 215 and 6'3" and I think the Blast would be a great bike to learn and practice on. The biggest thing I hear people saying is "get a dirtbike". The reasoning behind that is you MUST have good clutch/throttle coordination to remain upright. It is the best way to learn the "feel" of slipping the clutch in order to deliver the right amount of power to the rear wheel (regardless of how much throttle you give it, a good feel on the clutch will allow for throttle error). The best control comes from riding around slow cone patterns in first gear...so slow you have to be in the friction zone of the clutch. When you can take a Blast in a parking lot and flip a u U-turn within a parking stall, or better yet, start doing figure 8's within 12-15", you will be leaning that thing down almost to the point of dragging pegs, holding the bike up just by feeding the clutch. When you have that skill down, you can comfortably go out with a bigger bike (the 1125) and "feel" the bike and really control it. Bottom line is, no matter how much restraint you have, the 1125 is not forgiving if you dont have that clutch/throttle control. If you are rough with the clutch on the blast, you will either stall, or the bike will lurch a little, and stand up, causing you to go wide in your turns and figure 8's. On the 1125, however, you dump the clutch and if you are lucky, it will stall. Otherwise it will lurch, stand you up and dump you off the ass end. Talk to any motor officer (we aren't all that unapproachable) and ask them what cone patterns they had to do. Practice, practice, practice these figure 8's, tight U-turns, and if you can get someone to show you, cone patterns. When you get those skills down it won't matter how forgiving a bike is, you will drive the bike, instead of being a passenger on it. Welcome to the club, keep the bike and enjoy riding. | ||
| Baggermike |
I agree it is getting harder to find places to ride off road. I bought the ulysses with this in mind but the bike fell on me and had me pinned, I was not use the the short turning of the bars and Buell corrected that on the 08 ulysses. I was looking for someone to ride off road with and could not find anyone so I gave up and started riding with the NEBO group and got into riding fast again. I figured if I can not have fun off road I would have fun on the track so I Bought the 1125R but did think of buying the 08 ulysses which is an awesome bike, I was told on the street it will out handle sport bikes in the twisteis by the guy who designed showa suspensions, he told me to ride it suppermotor style and I would out corner a sport bike. I really wanted a ulysses with a big bore kit to increase power, and have a kit for 88 cubic inches and cost like four grand just for the kit, it would put out 135 hp and 115 tq and would be one quick bike but the cost of converting the new ulysses was to much money. if you are tall that would be a good bike for you and also a good track bike, something you might want to think about if you are tall. Mike | ||
| Dentguy |
A lot of people seem to have gotten away from the fact that maybe the bike has a problem and it wasn't you. Had it not stalled would we be having this discussion? You would likely be out riding and getting more comfortable with the bike. I know plenty of experienced riders that have stalled due to numerous reasons (bike or rider) and have fallen over because they weren't expecting a stall, were just off balance or on a hill or something. Take the bike in and have it checked out first to make sure it doesn't have a problem before attempting to ride it again. Some have had stalling issues especially when brand new. That said there is no doubt you lack experience. Could you have made a better choice for a bike? Maybe, but I don't think you should just sell it. I also don't think it is too much bike for you, but I don't know you personally. If you have respect for the bike and the power you'll be fine. It is only as fast as you want it to be by how much you twist the throttle. Just because it can make a lot of power doesn't mean it has to. I've seen plenty of old ladies driving around in their dead husbands 500HP muscle cars that weren't having problems because the pedal wasn't on the floor. Not that old ladies can't drive. You gotta have respect for the power. Good Luck. | ||
| Jlnance |
It makes me mad that Buell does this. My Uly has similar shift points listed in the manual. They are bad shift points for the Uly, and they are awful for the 1125r. My only guess is that there is a legal, rather than a technical reason for this. I don't know what to recommend for better shift points. But if you look at this dyno plot:  OK, now that I've changed the graph to actually be that of a Buell rather than a Ducatti, the fall off isn't so noticeable. It's doing odd things below 3000 RPM. (Message edited by jlnance on February 26, 2008) | ||
| No_rice |
um thats a ducati not an 1125...? | ||
| Jlnance |
Great, thats what I get for googling. Let me try and find the right graph. <blush> | ||
| Paint_shaker |
I reserve comment on your first bike choice as my first street bike was a Harley springer softail (although, I did have a lot of off road experience). As for the 1125, I would take it to the shop and have them check it out. | ||
| 1badbuell |
ok, we have one of three things here: 1. A troll 2. An Engineer who is "too smart" for his own good 3. An issue with this particular 1125r The 1125r IS NOT a beginners bike no matter what research you've done or what excerpts from the owners manual you post to back up the poor decision you made. I agree with everyone else...get some experience on a more suitable machine before you have a tag on your big toe or hurt someone else. As already stated it needs to be determined if something is wrong with the bike...take it to the dealer. My opinion would be inexperienced rider error. I don't care about the math...the 1125r motor lugs at 1500-2000rpms. Feathering the clutch is essential on motorcycles at low speeds...remember its an owners manual not a "how to ride a motorcycle" book. so based on Pariah's last post full of defending his decision - I say TROLL until I'm proven wrong. | ||
| Baggermike |
Ride like a pro teaches you how to ride large bike slow and you need to be using the rear brake, have the rpms up and slip the clutch or have it in what is called the friction zone which is between fully out or fully in. you use the clutch, the rear break, and give it gas, ((do not use the front brake when doing this or you will go down)) just put some pressure on the rear break and give it gas to around 4000 rpms and use the clutch to control your slow speed. I would like to know if the dealer knew you were a beginner and sold you the bike anyway, if he did it was wrong of him, just my opinion. Mike | ||
| Sound_uly |
I'm on the other side of the fence here guys. I say it was not necessarily wrong of the dealer to sell Pariah the bike nor for Pariah to have bought the bike. There is every indication that he is mature enough to accept the responsibility of owning a performance bike. As long as he is willing to accept the steep learning curve that goes along with it, I say keep getting on the bike and learn how to ride it well. I also believe the bike should be checked out by the dealer just to be sure but.... I think the stalling was due to inexperience. There is no way any of my bikes would do well lugging that low, including my dirt bike. Pariah - just give the bike some respect and realize that it's going to take some effort to learn to ride this thing well. I wouldn't fix anymore of the damage than is absolutely necessary for now (just in case you have to learn another lesson the hard way) until you begin to feel comfortable with the bike. Keep your rev's up and feather that clutch when doing slow speed maneuvers. You'll get the hang of it. Ron | ||
| Pariah |
Howdy Everyone, Thanks for your feedback and sound advice. My 1125R is at the dealer right now, and I'll let you know how that turns out. I'm also looking to get a dual-sport bike very soon... I've got my eye on a Suzuki DR-Z400SM. Capable on dirt or street, "only" 400ccs and outstanding fuel mileage. I may park the 1125R for a couple months just to get my bearings and build skill on the smaller bike first as you've all suggested (so tactfully, I would add). What is a troll? I suppose if I have to ask... A sense of fear now hits me when I look at the 1125R... probably a good thing! I suppose it was there before I lowsided, too, but my romantic side took over and dreams of being one with the beautiful bike overpowered all reason!  Adios, Takis (Message edited by pariah on February 27, 2008) | ||
| Sheridan_bueller |
"A sense of fear now hits me when I look at the 1125R..." Fear is the result of the unknown... Fear will soon be replaced with Awe. With Awe will come the respect and inspiration due your magnificent new 1125R. Good move Takis. Please keep us posted on your progress. Ride safe. JJ (Message edited by sheridan_bueller on February 27, 2008) | ||
| Crowdog |
An engineer will try to justify his calculations and reasons why this is the right bike for him, it's sort of like an architect telling a carpenter that he can build it that way because he can draw it that way. If this guy isn't a troll, and continues to insist his educated analysis of the 1125R calculates into a rideable bike for a beginner he will be dead in a month. This bike is not a toy a mistake outside of a parking lot will cost you your life. I have been riding for 35 years for real with some racing mixed in (off road) and I would think more then twice before purchasing a machine like the 1125R. I have lost more then one friend to two wheels, they were Very good riders. Sell the bike take a bath if you need to at least you will be alive. Your family is more important then your educated ego. I may be harsh but perhaps I or some of these other posts will save your life! | ||
| Baggermike |
I also have been riding most of my life and had my share of close calls, I lost my wife in a accident and you do not want to put your wife threw something like this, think about your family. I am one not to tell someone what to do, and I am teaching my son to ride, I fear he will get hurt on the Buell Blast but all I can do is ride with him and teach as we ride, if I see him do something I will pull over and tell him what he did wrong and then he knows. He wants to get communication system and it will be great teaching tool because I can point out situations that can turn deadly that I have learned from a life time of riding. I also know I can get taken out in a second, no matter how good you are shit happens. We ride bikes that people who are distracted do not see us, then you have the teenagers and there text messaging each other while driving. I know how dangerous it is to ride you can be the best rider and be taken out in an instance, I think you should think family first and find something you can do with your wife and child. Maybe get you and your wife dirt bike and both learn how to enjoy the sport and then teach you child as he gets older and make it a family thing. when my wife got pregnant I started commuting by train to work and it was a pain in the ass but when riding my bike at rush hour was very dangerous so I did this for her. My son just turned 18 and I want him to be safe and I asked him if he would not ride on the street I would give it up and get a car. He chose street riding and like me does not want a car and he will ride when it is 15 degrees out. this is the life he choses and I have to support that the best I can and hope for the best. Mike | ||
| Blake |
"Lowsiding" is for motorcycle racers pushing the limits on the race track. What happened to you is known as "falling off".  Been there, done that. I've also lowsided too. (Message edited by Blake on February 28, 2008) |
