| Author | Message | ||
     Arcticktm |
Add me to the list: Rear wheel bearings at <9,000 miles. Never pressure washed. Only "off-road" once (and toasted my clutch doing it). Always use service manual procedure and torque wrench the 3x I removed the rear wheel. Anyone more creative than me in how to remove old bearings w/o ordering $70+ tool??? I just order $650 of stuff from American Sport Bike and cannot spend any more). I have access to a press for install, but no way to get a hold of the backside of the bearing to remove it. I have search through about 100 threads on BadWeb with no solution I can use (no welding, and not willing to use a drift and walk it out due to possible hub bore damage) The bearings were not visibly distressed, but I noticed water on the bench after I removed the wheel for new tires. Popped off both seals. Water came out of the belt side, but grease and bearing looked OK. No water in the brake side (several days later), but bearing has an ugly paste of old grease and rust in it. Not too happy. Fronts seem fine. Been doing lots of bearing research on line, and likely will order SKF ($30 ea) or Koyo ($17 ea) 6006's on Monday. Problem now is removing the old ones w/o risking rear wheel damage. Local cruiser shop only has the H-D tools, which are much smaller than the 30mm rear axle size. Checked Advance Auto rental tools with no luck. I can always take the wheel to dealer, as still under warranty, but that is 80 miles one way. When I get my stuff from American Sport Bike, you can add me to the list for the following: VDST diagnostic/maintenance software Lower primary gearing with XB9 parts Lyndall Gold front brake pads Aprilia Tuono mirrors '07 airbox Gotta go get a new air filter and '07 fork springs soon, as well. I guess this means I have decided to keep the beast for awhile... | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
You can wash that air filter. | ||
| Xbimmer |
You can wash that air filter. Seriously? | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Been doing lots of bearing research on line, and likely will order SKF ($30 ea) or Koyo ($17 ea) 6006's on Monday. Hey Arcticktm, Would you post the links and #'s on these bearings please...thanks . | ||
| Jlnance |
Johnboy: http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/catalog/catal og.do?e=10&s=4021061 http://www.applied.com/apps/commerce/catalog/catal og.do?e=10&s=6366801 | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
How to clean your air filter: Drop filter in a bucket or sink filled with a solution of warm water and liquid Joy or equivalent. Let the filter sit for a few minutes and then run warm water from the inside out until clean. Repeat if you notice some dirty looking areas. Shake out the excess water. Don't dry with compressed air as this will blow holes through it. Let dry naturally and completely. Reinstall. It works. If you are not satisfied with how it looks then go spend the $30 or whatever a new one cost. Oh yeah, don't think for a minute that air filters never get wet. When it rains they most certainly get wet and then dry out. (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on February 24, 2008) | ||
| Bertotti |
Not to make waves but why buy vdst software and cables when you can use ecm spy for free and get a cable for about 40 dollars? Does it have functionality the ecm spy doesn't have? | ||
| Motomania425 |
Add me to the list also: New wheel bearings at 7800mi. Definitely a seal problem. Had my 06 off road twice for about 10 mi. Have put rest of miles on wet and dry pavement. Warranty repaired the problem, but I think it's a "cheap" bearing problem. ThanX for the bearing# of SKF and Koyo, Arcticktm. If same bearing went into repair, I should expect to be doing this over again on my dollar  motomania425 | ||
| Dgunther |
Harbor Freight sells a blind bearing puller for $30. The largest collet (1"-1 1/4") will fit 30mm. http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem. taf?Itemnumber=95987 | ||
| Arcticktm |
Dgunther - thanks! Don't know why I did not check them out, as there is a store in Asheville pretty close to my work. Jlnance - thanks for putting up the Applied links for me. Couple notes: I found SKF's listed for as low as $11 elswhere, but the website looked a bit iffy. Also not always sure what you are buying, as the listed features on some sites do not match up with the manufacturer info. SKF had the best info on line, so I am leaning toward them, even at higher cost. Note that the Applied lists the Koyo as having "rubber" seals vs the SKF Buna-N (nitrile) seals. Also lists the SKF to have a poly urea base lube vs multi temp SRL for the Koyo. I am skeptical that the Koyo actually has rubber seals these days. If it did, I would not be inclined to want them. Have not been able to find anything with a true double lip seal on both sides in this size. The above linked bearings are single lip seals on both sides. Not sure about the VDST question, as I am not familiar with ECMSpy. Hopefully I am not wasting my money... I may try to wash the filter, but will order another anyway. There is oil on the filter that I may have a hard time cleaning off w/o damaging the paper. Good suggestion, though. | ||
| Michael1 |
The Koyo seals are Buna N (or nitrile) rubber. And quite frankly, Applieds website isn't too up to date. The Koyo's will more than likely come with Mobil Polyrex EM (a polyurea based grease).  The only thing to becareful about, is with the Koyo's you are getting a Japanese made bearing. With the SKF, you never know where it's coming from. There are some double lip sealed units, but they aren't truely double lip. The issue is the bearing size. A 6006 isn't a typical size that would need a true double lip designed for it. The ag industry seems to drive the use of double/triple/trash guard seals. I bought the VDSTS software as well. From what I know, the ECMSpy allows you to change your fuel tables. As to the filter...get yourself a K&N filter recharger kit. They are $12 at AutoZone. I am just finishing up washing and reoiling my K&N. It's a nice product that works really good for minimal money. Disclaimer: I don't work for any bearing manufacturer...anymore.... | ||
| Arcticktm |
Thanks, that's what I figured on the Koyo. Honestly, I was probably favoring SKF because I worked with them briefly when I was at an OEM, and we had issues that our existing bearing manufacturer would not help us with. SKF provided us with a lot of on-site tech help well beyond what our potential sales volume should have justified. I realize SKF builds in at least Germany, US, Mexico and who knows where else. And no, the "no help" brand was not Koyo, nor any far east brand. I could not find anyone making a true double lip seal in a 6006 size (via internet). Applied wants too much $$$ for shipping & handling, so Tues I will look for a Industrial Supply house in Asheville area that would have 6006's. Still disappointed that I need to do this job. 20 years of off-road & street riding on bikes up to 18 years old, and I NEVER had to replace any wheel bearings (Honda, KTM, Husky, Suzuki, BMW, Ducati). | ||
| Dio |
Michael1 - Even though you don't work for a bearing manufacturer anymore, do you have a personal recommendation for a brand of wheel bearing you would prefer, based on any past experience? There were some comments on another thread about a higher temp rated bearing. In addition to the premium grease used, these also sported viton seals. Does viton equal longevity in this application? I gotta wonder why BMC didn't use a double row bearing in their wheels like H-D, other than cost. Any comments? | ||
| Michael1 |
Viton seals do absolutely nothing in a wheel bearing application. Viton or high temp seals are only good where the ambient temps are above 140F or so. Below the high temps the seals are actually more brittle than a Buna-N at normal temps (and performance drops). Me, I would use any quality manufacturer from a quality country (ie, Japan, USA, Germany, Sweden). I would stay away from Brazil, Tawian or any third world country basically. I will be purchasing a set of Koyo's from Japan or NTN from Japan or NSK from Japan. I am quite disappointed as well. I am beginning to think that it's not totally the fault of the seals. I think with the stresses of the belt drive, weight of the bike, dirt and moisture is introduced directly to the bearing,the relatively thin (cross section/thickness) inner and outer rings of the 6006 bearing all compounds to a bearing that is marginal in performance. Mine went at 4k miles with mostly street rides (two up), some dirt and never used a pressure washer. When I performed a failure analysis on my destoyed factory bearings, it looked like a failure due to heat. The heat can be from loss of lurication, preload (too tight axle from the factory?) or seal failure (introduction of contamination). When I did my preflight check, I didn't see any seal failure. But then again the ride they failed on, I was 200 miles into it and I was exploring some back roads (dirt/paved). I want a piece of mind that they won't go out again...But I don't think that will happen any time soon. | ||
| Dio |
Thanks for the info and commentary. I forgot to ask - what year is yours, and who makes the OEM bearings? I know that there are "aircraft quality" bearings available for certain applications. Is this an option for longevity here? | ||
| Michael1 |
Mine is an 06, early build. The OEM bearings in mine are NTN Tawain. I'm on my second set with a Chinese set tossed in to finish my camping trip. "Aircraft quality" bearings are pretty much a misnomer. There is no ABMA (American Brg Mfg's Ass.) reconization of "aircraft quality" as an upgrade. Typically bearings that are used in aircraft applicaitons have slightly tighter tolerances than their normal counterparts. The big thing with the Uly that impacts bearing life is: 1. Lubrication/Sealing 2. Preload (too tight during wheel installation) | ||
| Dano_12s |
MIke,good info.Have you done all the wheel+tire replacements?First time on my XB's axels were siezed on inner races,started to spread forks+swingarm on removal. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Jlnance, Thank you for the links. Michael1, RE: Lubrication/Sealing Do we just wait for the bearings to fail - or is that a PM procedure? Thanks . | ||
| Michael1 |
I have not done my wheels yet. I will be pulling them off here soon, so I can spoon on a new set of skins before MBV. My local dealer has done my last rear. I'm hoping it'll come off easy. You can PM, I always do, even on my other bikes. When I change my tires and the rims are off the bike, I just pull the seal (using dental picks and be CAREFUL NOT to puncture, but lift the seal!!!). I try and wipe out the old grease/dirt and introduce some new waterproof Belray grease. But don't fill the bearing 100% full of grease. It will purge or you can blow the seal. I just wipe it in with a finger and that's about it. A bearing like when 25% ~ 35% of it's inside cavity is fill of grease. Anythin more than that and it'll just purge. A rule of thumb I always taught: When you think you have enough grease in there... you have too much! | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I'll bet many who have experienced bearing failure have done so after changing out one or more tires. Had they taken the time to remove the seals and do some grease maintenance they probably would not have had bearing failure. When ULY riders report about their rear bearings failing I sure would like to know if they had previously maintained the failed bearing. Every bike I've owned, and there have been quite a few over the years since around 69', I've had to grease the bearings. All bearings have seals, but that in no way means they are maintenance free. The sooner folks realize that, the better off they will be. When you consider the work those bearings do, it's a wonder they can put with the abuse as well as they do. My two cents. | ||
| Michael1 |
POSTED BY Electraglider_1997 I'll bet many who have experienced bearing failure have done so after changing out one or more tires. Had they taken the time to remove the seals and do some grease maintenance they probably would not have had bearing failure. When ULY riders report about their rear bearings failing I sure would like to know if they had previously maintained the failed bearing. Every bike I've owned, and there have been quite a few over the years since around 69', I've had to grease the bearings. All bearings have seals, but that in no way means they are maintenance free. The sooner folks realize that, the better off they will be. When you consider the work those bearings do, it's a wonder they can put with the abuse as well as they do. My two cents. I have always done the same. I am still on my original wheels bearings on my 1978 RD400 and they are looking good. I've had the bike since 1993 and put 80% of the 20k miles on it. The same thing with my SV650. I've owned it since new (40k+ miles on it) and still have the original bearings in it. Same with my 82 XT250 and that has seen some REALLY muddy rides. But for a BRAND NEW, modern bike to have it's rear wheel bearings go out at 4k miles... That's a little bit beyond a PM program on the bearings. If I have to remove and regrease my bearings every 2k miles... They can have the bike back. Performing a PM every 5k miles or tire change is more what it should be. That's all I ask for. | ||
| Arcticktm |
UPDATE: 1st, note that my rear bearings have not failed quite yet. They are just on their way. There was water in the pulley side (but looked good), and the brake side had some rusty colored deposits and had a little too much resistance. There was not excessive free play. If not for the rust, I would add some grease and monitor them more closely. I sure wish we had more dirt bike type system, like my KTM's use. The bearings are well inside the hub, with axle spacers inserted into a secondary seal on the outer surface of the hub. This protects the bearing seal from the vast majority of bad encounters with water and debris. I do not see how double row bearings would help much, since loading does not seem to be the problem. I bought some SKF's today, because that is what the local industrial supply (Bearings and Drives in Asheville, NC) had. They are marked as made in Argentina, so do with that what you will. I probably would have gone with made in Japan Koyo's, if they had them in stock. The SKF's are marked on the box with some older nomenclature: 6006 2RSJEM (for rear) $23.84 ea 6005 2RSJEM (for front) $20.94 ea but the bearing inside is scribed as: 6006-2RS1/C3 GJN 6005-2RSH/C3 GJN The "1" & "H" denote the specific type of seal geometry used. The C3 is the clearance class, which is slightly more clearance than default. My research shows that is appropriate for this application, but what the hell do I know? The GJN denotes the grease, and this is a high temperature (-30 to 150 degC) polyurea soap thickener used in a mineral oil base. All of the above is explained pretty well on the http://www.skfusa.com }website. I hate that I had to learn this much about bearings! | ||
| Jlnance |
But for a BRAND NEW, modern bike to have it's rear wheel bearings go out at 4k miles... That's a little bit beyond a PM program on the bearings. If I have to remove and regrease my bearings every 2k miles... They can have the bike back. Performing a PM every 5k miles or tire change is more what it should be. That's all I ask for. It's not that simple. Some people have had very early bearing failures, and some don't. There have been theories advanced that it's water, power washing, or improper axle torquing. None of these have explained all the failures. I swapped my rear bearings out at 30,000 miles as a preventative maintenance measure. They were absolutely fine. I never greased them, I rode in the rain, and I power wash my bike on occasion. Also, I think the axle was torqued with an air wrench at least once. Others have had bearings fail after a few thousand miles on the original factory wheel. Go figure. | ||
| Dougm |
Another one for the list. I removed my rear wheel last night to change the tire. The wheel bearings can barely be moved by hand, and when they do, they are "rough and clunky". I have an appointment at AD Farrow's on March 8 to have the sidestand recall done. I was planning to ride (they are about 100mi away). Should I ride on these bearings or should I load it in the truck? Do I need to inspect the front bearings also? Oh, and this is an 06 with 7500 mi. As far as I can tell, this is the first rear tire change for the bike. DougM | ||
| Dano_12s |
Doug,try to get a bolt or all thread through wheel while wheel is off bike.Tighten slightly to inner races+spacer see if you still have binding?You may find that it spins free. | ||
| Adrian_8 |
You could ride the bike and the bearings will most likely make it..but you take the chance of wrecking the spacer tube between the bearings as I did when the bearing really gets bad....I feel that the torque is a little to much...The ying-yangs at the dealer tightened my front axle so tight they crushed the seals. I had the bike in for a rotor replacement and knew I had fairly new front bearings, when I got it back the axle was cross threaded and the seal was smashed. The torque on the rear axle sets the tightness of the drive belt and I think for "safety" sake Buell has overdone the amount of tightness on the rear as mine failed early also. There is no "proof in this puddin'"..buts thats what I think. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Doug - the front wheel is so easy to remove, you might as well do it now while you have the bike down. Pop the seals off your rear bearings to look inside and see if you are comfortable running them 100 miles. When in doubt, I would trailer it, since it will be on your mind all the way there! Adrian_8 - don't understand your comment about the axle torque setting belt tightness. Belt tension is controlled by the tensioner only, right? Axle torque should just be enough to bring everything together, but not pinch the swingarm to the bearings. Plus, keep the nut from backing off, of course. Are you talking about the fact that if you loosen the axle enough (the 15 turns+), it allows you to drop into the smaller diameter of the axle, which gives you enough belt slack to remove the belt and rear wheel? Just wondering. | ||
| Dougm |
> Pop the seals off your rear bearings to look inside and see.. Arcticktm, I have heard this before, but just how do you remove the seals without damaging them? DougM} | ||
| Arcticktm |
My method: Use a very small screwdriver (like for eyeglasses or electronics) or a dental tool if you have one. tyro to find one that has no sharp edges or points to avoid cutting the seal (if you plan to re-use the seal/bearing). Slide the tool carefully between the seal and the bearing race, and work it under the seal to "pop" the seal off the bearing. You want to try to remove the seal as flat as possible, and not bend it (the seals have a thin pice of metal molded inside them to keep them in shape). You may be surprised how easy they come off. You will then also understand how water gets in them! these really weren't meant to be in harms way like they are on the Uly. Check out any dirt bike and see what I mean. The seal should press back into place if you did not bend it taking it out. Gently flatten out the seal with your fingers/thumb (no tools) on a flat surface before re-installing it, and do not use tools to re-install the seal. | ||
| Adrian_8 |
Artictim..the "tensioner" does not tension as on the "old dirt bikes" it is fixed in one position not spring loaded..more as a guide/roller. The taper on the rear axle draws the belt up tight. This is why there are no alignment marks on the swingarm as is common with most chain bikes..one nut does it all at the proper tension. After 15 turns the belt totally loosens up and falls off the tapered cone and is extremely loose. Buell is very precise about how to tighten the rear to get the belt just so.. SM says: tighten to 23-27 ft. lbs. back off two turns, then tighten to 48-52. I would use the 48ft lbs to put the least amount of pressure on the rear bearing. |
