| Author | Message | |||
     Sharkytattoo |
Check the grounds! Hint, hint, nudge, nudge ... check the grounds! | |||
| Slypiranna |
I second sharky above...as I've found a few loose connections in a teardown inspection(while doing mods) AND READING HERE(!) on my 1125...no problems concerning anything regarding all these listings and I'm here in central florida (heat) with 1200 miles on the clock. Build date was dec 07 and last three of the vin is 524. This "problem" I believe, will be a simple one as those are the ones most often overlooked in diagnostics. I just find it hard to believe that we have a design flaw in this system. Time and $'s will tell...I just want my service manuals so I can play alone!  }} | |||
| Fresnobuell |
Interesting call I got from my service mgr late last week. Buell told him that that due the extensive on-track testing somehow the electrical system was set to properly charge at 7,000 RPM. Someone here mentiioned that a while back. So they essentially underbuilt the electrical system for the street, where cruising RPM is nowhere close to 7K. And they were also surprised at the number of us that run our high beams during the day (as well as those that run electrical accessories,) which magnifies the problem. What bothered me is the the possible fix that was mentioned--a software mod that will cut out high beams and fans when voltage is getting low. My first thought was "great, now my bike will overheat instead." I made my point clear that I didn't think this was an appropriate fix--trading off one problem for another. The bike runs hot enough as it is. (Message edited by fresnobuell on February 26, 2008) | |||
| Baggermike |
I think it is bad web that they look at and deny problems, I got the run around with my bike and was told what do you expect it is a race bike, that was news to me thince I thought this was built for the street rider from the rider on down, I also been trying to get the answer as to why the bike was rated at 7000 rpm for wattage when that would be my cornering rpm not cruising like doing 70 at 4300 rpm. I can not believe that answer what do you expect it is a race bike and that the bike can not even handle high beams on in traffic, I can send the stator and rotor and voltage regulator out to be redone but I should not have to, pluss the bike was marketed for the street rider not racer or even track day and is why so much went into tuning it for the flat powerband that you need on the street, this is BS and I think they better be working on a replacement stator, Plus my bike was at the dealership almost a month for a fuel pump issue when that should have taken a few days and if I had not started complaining about it, it still would be there. Mike | |||
| Fresnobuell |
I agree Mike, there needs to be mechanical fix, not a software fix. Buell may be trying to take the more economical route as opposed to the correct route. Service mgr also said something about a possible option of a more powerful charging system for those planning to add electrical stuff. I would be satisfied if I can use my high beams without killing the battery. I don't think it's too much to ask. SM also said when using the high beams at cruising RPMs the electrical system runs at a deficit. | |||
| Baggermike |
I agree that is seventy watts extra and should handle it because it is set up that way, I rigged the ulysses to run both lights in the day time for safety, and I also want to do that on this bike. I am going to hid lights on my bike like I did on the ulysses, but if you install a modulator it uses half the power so using high beams and lows would be like just using lows but it is not quite rated for 140 watts and it says 130 watts, I also got pulled over because of my headlights flashing and was accused of impersonating a police vehicle. I think some of the guys went with H11 bulbs and I think they are going to have problems because they fit but are 55 watts not the 35 watt H8 bulbs that are stock, I know hid lights wound be the same wattage as stock, I just want to be able to run my jacket and glove liners and high beams, I am going to install led running lights and brake lights so that will cut down a little of the power needed. I got dennis kirk catalog and was looking at charging systems and there is a guy that told me to send him my stator rotor and voltage regulator and he could bump up the system and this guy does the same systems in the catalog so I would trust him to do the bike right, but I think buell should be the one to bump up the system and I should not have to pay to get what I thought was a bike built for the street rider down. I also can not believe they said to cut off the fans if it needed power, that is stupidity. Mike | |||
| Zac4mac |
I received my Kuyakin LED voltmeter yesterday and installed it today. For now, it's stuck in the accessory plug. I took a couple of very short rides this afternoon and the meter showed plenty of juice. I'll get out and run it with the grips on high and the high beams on tomorrow. I'm optimistic. Z | |||
| Baggermike |
I got the shift light from Al at American sport bike that also works as a volt meter so when I get it installed with a amp meter I hope to find out what the bike is doing and will give me proof to show the techs and Buell CS. | |||
| Nickcaro |
well my bike is ready for pickup at the dealer. Diagnosis = loose ground connector to the frame.... | |||
| Fresnobuell |
Nickaro, what were the symptoms of your problem? | |||
| Court |
Hmmmmm. . . . I'd believe half of what you read and less of what you hear. | |||
| Nickcaro |
Fresno, my symptoms; first I needed a jump start from friends three times, so I then started using a tender none stop. After learning how to access the on board diagnostics I saw that I was leaving the house at 14+ volts and 40 miles later I was dropping to 11.3 volts. | |||
| Zac4mac |
It's 30˚F right now, gonna get up to almost 60˚. I'll head out when it gets up around 40-45˚. I am going to ride for several hours today and watch the voltmeter. My charging system has been looking very good, in use and thru the two tests I've run so far. I dislike riding with hi-beams all the time, but on the freeway I don't think I'm pissing off too many folks. On a "2-lane" it's just bad manners to blind people. I'd rather stay invisible and avoid them than try to avoid them when they're trying to hit me. I'm going out to the garage and recheck my battery connections and pop the air cleaner and look at my valves now. Back later, first to report on connections and intake appearance, then later this afternoon with results from the ride. Zack | |||
| Cataract2 |
Zack, was wondering if you could do this. Could you get the voltage at 2000-9000 rpm and put it in a spreadsheet. This would be with low beams. Then turn on the high beams and do the same thing. I'm curious to see what it shows for charging. | |||
| Baggermike |
I also have a volt meter coming from Al the shift light from www.ecliptech.com.au and when you turn it on it does a check of the electrical system but if you hold down the buttons then it will stay in that mode and function just like the volt meter that goes from green to orange to red, I also have a amp gauge I got from auto zone, I think it is amps that we need to know at 3500 rpm to 4500 rpm and also volts. I wrote eclip on the installation for the tach and there are three wires to hook up and on the firebolt it is a pink wire going to the gage that is for the tach so I hope it is the same for the 1125, I hope I can get it to work as a tach to, but it will work as a volt meter until I can find the tach wire and hook that up. Mike | |||
| Zac4mac |
Cataract2 that's pretty much what I did, the second test. 2k, 4k and 8k rpm at 160˚, 175˚ and 200˚ The only times my system went below 13 volts was at idle. Even at 200˚ I had 13.05V at 2000 rpm, with Hi-Beams. 4k rpm and up was the same voltage in all but one test, and it was close.
Zack | |||
| Zac4mac |
OK, pre-flight done. Battery connections were tight, less than 1/4 turn. Chassis ground, above rear tire, about 1/4 turn to tight. Basically all good. Airbox, rocks and gravel in the traps, air filter getting grey. Top side butterflies clean, underside a little dirty. Intake walls, fairly clean, valve stems clean, valves have a little carbon around the edges. The vent at the back of the airbox was loose and its little filter pad was an inch away. This is the first time I got the bottom tray off the stacks. While I was looking at the valves, I wondered what it would look like to crank her over while holding the butterflies WFO. WOAH, WHAT A RUSH!!! If you do it, wear safety glasses. Gotta put her back together now so I can ride. Back later Z | |||
| Diablo1 |
To test charging output, put a voltmeter right on the battery terminals. You need to measure very close to 14 volts on a maintenance free battery. If you don't see 14 volts at ANY rpm idle and above, then you're charge system is not working properly. 13 volts doesn't cut it. But, you have to measure at the battery terminals! | |||
| Zac4mac |
A 12 volt system is a 12 volt system, not 13 or 14. Storage capacity is NOMINAL 12V, a fully charged battery will read between 12.6 and 13.8 open circuit depending on type and age. Don't go trying to change the rules mid-game. Z (Message edited by zac4mac on February 24, 2008) | |||
| Jpfive |
System voltage should be 14V when the engine is running, Zac - same as on a car - even though the battery is rated at 12V. Proper voltage on a fully charged 12V battery is 12.8V for that matter. The Yuasa site has a lot of documentation on this. My bike produces a stable 14V when cold, but not when warm. The practical effect may be nil, as my bike is running OK, but I am sure that the EFI is designed around an operating voltage of 14V, not 12. I am corresponding with Buell on this right now, and have asked them to confirm this opinion. If I am in error, I will post the correct information here. Thanks for your work on the spreadsheets! I am loving this bike! Jack | |||
| Baggermike |
I agree in all my research and have been told the same thing that it should be in the 14's and my voltage does drop down to the low 13 volts when I rode it for a short time the other day and then snowed, so I have to wait for my volt meter to get here and will hook up my volt meter and amp gauge and will run the amp gauge off the battery with heavy gage wire, I think the amps will also be good to know if it can put out 32 amps at 7000 rpms like it is suppose to. I am learning allot about charging systems which is good. Mike | |||
| Bob_thompson |
One more very important thing to remember guys, I believe, is that the "state of charge" in any battery is dependent on how much amperage is put back into the charging system and the voltage is merely an "indication" of the "state of charge". To be accurate of charging "rate" you would need and ammeter to measure it at any given rpm. Then the battery would stay in charge if the rate of charge is more then the rate of discharge. Also an ammeter must be placed in line as any flow meter would. Old school Ohms law I know, but still accurate. Bob | |||
| Baggermike |
Bob how should I hook up the amp meter to my bike that I got from an auto store, it is a nice gauge that I plan on installing permanently, I was going to run two heavy gage wires to the gauge that I am mounting up front to see the amps as I ride and you seem to know more than me so what is your opinion in doing this. Mike | |||
| Bob_thompson |
Mike, as I do not have my new 1125 yet I cannot comment on the exact routing but the guage will have to be placed "in line" (series rather then parallel) with a wire that goes directly from the alternator through the regulator to the battery (12v +)side and should be on the battery side of the regulator. This is usually a rather large wire capable of holding the total output of the alternator. As you have said it would be nice to have a repair manual with electrical schematics to get it right. Remember to really insulate properly to avoid a direct short with any 12v.+ wire. Remember about "any" warranty problems associated with doing this or any alterations to a new vehicle. Hope this helps somewhat. Bob | |||
| Baggermike |
Thanks Bob that is something I did not think about and I see that it would work this way, so now I have to think about what to do and maybe I just will hook it up at the rear just to see what it puts out with everything I can throw at it, like all my heated gear that should get it to show the total amps, I will go and reread the directions to the gauge and see if it is possible to run the gauge between the voltage regulator and + side of the battery, then I will hook it up differently for regular use or not use it at all, thanks Bob you told me what I really needed to know to find the answers I need. Mike | |||
| Zac4mac |
OK, I'm home. 277 miles today, most I-25, up to Chugwater, Wyoming. Ran the Hi-Beams on the Interstate and the grips half way up and most of the way back. The little Kuryakyn voltmeter showed 2 green LEDs all the way, except at idle. When idling for a few minutes it would drop to one LED. When coming down from cruising speed, at idle it would flicker the yellow over 2 greens. In the garage: 12.7V in Diag Mode - Park wait 5 minutes for battery to recover from load in Park 13.00 VDC Fluke 77-III open ckt @ batt 12.3-12.4V Diag Mode - Run (engine off - Lo-Beams on) I'm comfortable with the charging system delivering anything I ask of it. Short trip or long. We have 100% performance from a sample group of one. Ship it. So, if anyone wants to repeat my tests, it will be more useful, statistically.  Z | |||
| Baggermike |
My volt meter comes tuesday so I got to hook up the amp meter and volt meter and will go for a long ride and see how it does and hopefully everything will work good enough that I do not have to worry about the bike stranding me some were, soon they will be non heated gear weather so I do not have to worry about that but will ride with my high beams on to see if I can get bad readings and hope I do not. Mike | |||
| Sharkytattoo |
Guys, please take it to your Buell dealership! They can check charging systems quickly and accurately, all without any chance of voiding "warranty." Trust me. | |||
| Bearly |
It is best to take to the dealer to have your problems on record. My batter went dead in six days And I'm going run it buy there and tell them, but Fixing the bike is another matter with No Service manual, or wiring diagrams. When I took mine to the first service the mechanic came out in the show room looking for me and alerted me to the fact that my bike wouldn't shut off.I then explained to him how the security system works. Of course when I dropped it off I told them how to check the oil, that it they only should put three quarts in it and that it had two drain plugs. I had to go back the next day to have some oil drained out. What torque spec did they use? I walked back to shop while they were working on it and they had it plugged in to a hand held analyzer. I was amazed. I asked them I didn't know you guys already had an analyzer for the bike. They said "Hey we didn't either, we just hooked it up to see if it it would work. What did I get for $202 ? I just hope they have the good sense to call Buell when I take it in for a problem. ooue that was cranky, sorry, I just woke up | |||
| Baggermike |
Sharky I read most mechanics do not know how to properly test or understand the charging system and after seeing them work on my bike I seen that this is true. I have learned so much on the forums and other google searches for how charging systems works on motorcycles and how to test the charging system to make sure everything is working right. I now know how to test the charging system, I was told Buell is working on this problem and that the bike can not even handle high beams on in traffic, I do not know if that is true or not, there is so much more that is needed to be tested to know the charging system is working right, I need to go for a ride now and I am getting a volt meter tomorrow so I am hooking that up along with a ammeter, and then I will see if the volts stay high or if it drops down as the motor heats up like others have said, I will also know if the system is putting out 32 amps at 7000 rpm or less which it is suppose to, anyway off I go. Mike |
