| Author | Message | ||
     Sloppy |
I'm planning on rebuilding my tranny with an Andrews gear set (my dogs are rounded off) and a baker smooth shift drum kit. I'm disappointed in the amount of wear from factory HD parts and the prices have jumped dramatically from the factory. Anyone have experience with the Andrews gear set? Thanks. | ||
| Old_mil |
Don't know anything about the Andrews gear set, but wasn't Baker offering a 6 speed setup for Buells at some point? | ||
| Ratbuell |
They still do...if you've got about $2300 to spend. It's called the Baker XL6. | ||
| Rich |
I put a higher ratio 1st gear from Andrews in my RS some years ago. No problems. | ||
| Jos51700 |
The HD crash box has never had particularly square dogs like some of it's contemporary's. Are you fixing a shifting issue, or you just took it apart to see, and don't like it? The first few that I did scared the heck out of me, until a protege, a Harley guy with a beard to his knees, said, "Put 'er back in there, man! It'll run good for the next 100,000! Lighten up, man, she likes smooth parts with deep engagement and lots of lube! Haw Haw Haw!" Three of those bikes are still shifting good and running tight after 9 years and 50,000 miles or more. I've lost track of the rest, which is a good sign. I've seen a few that like to back the pins out of the shift drum and kick the shiftstar off, but other than that, all the transmission issues I've seen are rider-induced. (XBRR excluded) | ||
| Psycrow |
LoL Jos I think I've meet that ol' Harley guy.... | ||
| Jackbequick |
The Buell/H-D transmissions (except for the 1125R) all use layshaft type transmissions. The 1125R and all the Japanese and most European brands have countershaft type transmissions. On the layshaft transmissions the power train comes in on one shaft, down and through a parallel shaft (the layshaft), then, for most gears, back up and out on a shaft that is inline with the input shaft. All that involves sliding nominal masses of metal into and out of engagement as dogs are engaged and disengaged. One gear in a layshaft transmission, normally high gear, does not drive through any of the gears but simply locks the input and output shafts together for your 1:1 input to output ratio. On the countershaft transmissions, there are two parallel shafts and the power is in one one shaft and out on the other. It has thinner, more compact gears and the masses of metal that are moved as the gears/dogs are slid in and out of engagement are lighter and have shorter distances to travel. This is your classic "snick, snick" shifting motorcycle transmission. Long story, huh? Here are the punch lines. The layshaft transmissions do not tolerate clutchless shifting and "stomp on it shifting" as well as do the countershaft transmissions. The price paid is damaged or badly worn dogs and pieces that under travel or over travel and do not always stop at the proper points of engagement (missed shifts). Layshaft transmissions work best when the drive force loadings are relieved as the gears and dogs are moved in and out of engagement. Doing that lets the detents on the shifting drums or forks move easily and stop in the proper place. This kind of shiting is normally done by closing the throttle as you pull the clutch lever in, then moving the shift lever, then releasing the clutch and opening the throttle. Quicker up shifting can be accomplished by closing the throttle just enough to take the load off of the gears and "fanning" the clutch lever just a little (1/4 or 1/3 of it normal travel with two fingers) as the shift lever is moved. Smooth down shifting with layshaft transmissions requires throttle blips. That gets the speeds of the dogs that are about to be engaged more closely matched and also softens the driveline shocks when decelerating. Again clutch fanning and throttle control is the key to happiness here. The bottom line is that getting the best use and service life out of a layshaft transmission requires a little more skill and practice than is needed for countershaft transmissions. It is that simple. It may even be that this is all part of a secret plan to keep squids, RUBs, and other assorted newbies to motorcycling from quickly getting happy with large displacement, American-made, V-Twins. That would drive up the market demand for and mess up the availability of one of the worlds best kept secrets. Jack | ||
| Blackm2 |
"This kind of shiting..." Hhe, ha, heh, he said shiting...(said like Beavis) | ||
| Buellistic |
Jackbequick: No "BUELLschitte" !!! The 1952 K-Model "TRACTOR" evolved transmission is a TOUGH ONE ... My size 13teen foot can break it, "BUT" the TRAP DOOR transmissions are easy to fix !!! In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Djkaplan |
I replaced the two countershaft (the term the service manual uses) gears that have the engagement dogs for the first to second shift in my M2. I don't think it was so much the slightly rounded off dogs (it wasn't much, I was very surprised) so much as the internal splines were loose on the countershaft (just a guess) that was causing the problems. All I know is I replaced these gears, and the horrible 1st to 2nd shift (which the bike had off the showroom floor, btw) went from CRUNCH, to snick and totally got rid of the missed shift problem my bike had developed after 25,000 miles. The two gears cost less than a $100 from Andy at Appleton... how much do the Andrews gears cost? I use the Baker kit also... it was worth the effort to install in my case, and it definitely made a positive difference in the way the transmission shifts... not so much in a snick, snick way, though. The biggest difference was all the throws are equal without the long one in the range (which shift was that, anyway? It's been so long, I forgot). Also, the detent plate is screwed on, not circlipped (or whatever that thing is) and the pins won't •••• like on a stock shift drum. I like my transmission now... but it was the bane of my existence for years. I feel ridiculous for not getting into it sooner. Transmission work is a freakin' breeze on these bikes. All the work I did could have been done in less than two hours. I could have had it done and test ridden before lunch if I were so inclined... but I was having too much fun touching the parts and stuff. | ||
| Djkaplan |
Those red asterisks are for the word C O C K. Sheesh... | ||
| Djkaplan |
Oh... and btw, the engagement dogs in my tuber transmission (2000 M2) were all undercut from the factory. |
