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Buell Forum » Knowledge Vault (tech, parts, apparel, & accessories topics) » Dyno Charts/Testing (Show us the POWER!) » Dyno Test Results - Supertrapp IDS Muffler

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This page is to share the results of my dyno testing of the latest Supertrapp IDS muffler for Buell twins. This muffler is also sold under the Buell brand name as the Buell®; Pro Series Slip-Fit Race Muffler, at least I believe it to be the same basic muffler. It mates to stock headers with 2-1/2" collectors.





This was done on a mostly stock '99 M2. The only other mod is a Mikuni HSR42 with the CV44 manifold.

The outlet turn-out was installed for all of these pulls.

As you can see, this result defies conventional wisdom. Adding disks added midrange and did little for it on top. And, much to my surprise, even in a fully optimized state it doesn't exactly smoke the stock piece. The stock muffler works pretty good.

The muffler definitely flattens the a/f curve. I suspect there's a reversion going on through the mid-range with the stock muffler that causes that richness.

Another surprise, jetting didn't need to be changed between these different configurations. I tuned it with the stock muffler, it wanted a 157.5 today, and I that's what was in it for all of those pulls. Moving the jetting (which I did some of as an experiment) costed power in all configurations. You want to be right around 13:1 at 6500rpm.

I also tried a competition end cap with 20 discs but it ran much like the 20 disc results above, which was done with a closed end cap.

Aaron Wilson
NRHS

Author Message   Ccryder Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 11:12 pm:        AW: Those results are surprising! Guess it's time to throw on 8 discs and "Feel the power". My gut/ seat-of-the-pants told me that the ST needed some more discs. But I guessed it would help HP at the top end (silly me). I would guess my fuelie, with race ecm, would be able to compensate but, as you noted the mixture didn't require too much of a change. Thanks Neil S.   Aaron Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 09:19 am:        The whole result surprised me, not just the fact that more discs helped the midrange. I'll tell ya, after all the testing I've done of mufflers, carbs, ignition modules, coils, plug wires, plugs, crank vent devices, etc etc, much more than I've published here, I've come away with a real appreciation for how well the factory stuff actually works. I'm concluding that it's damn hard to make a significant improvement to these bikes from outside the motor. A lot of the stuff I've tested, I haven't been able to get it to show up at all on the dyno sheet, and the stuff that does show up just does a tiny little bit, like this muffler and the Mikuni. Buell does a good job of delivering a package that works well together. This ain't a Harley, with 20-30% gains sitting there waiting for you to uncover them.   Lsr_Bbs Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 09:45 am:        Aye, I'll agree w/ you there Aaron...I'm now running 17 on my setup, and the 2 extra discs obviously helped w/ my part-throttle woes (along w/ better jetting)...there most assuredly is some reversion happening. Yep to the Buell did do a good job w/ the power output on these lumps...much like any other modern sportbike, w/o big $$$ your really not going to see much hp from bolt-ons. Just wish that stock pipe hadn't sounded so bad, would have kept it. Neil Garretson X0.5   José_Quiñones Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 08:57 pm:        It's the CAMS! I think that S1/X1 owners would feel the bigger difference between stock and aftermarket exhausts, because they get rid of the hole in the stock powerband between 3 and 5,000 rpm The M2 already has this midrange, it's just missing the top end of the X1 after 5500 rpm and the aftermarket mufflers do nothing better up there. Which is why I have M2 cams/stock header & muffler/K&N/Race ECM in my Fuel Injected 99 S3, and which is why I wish Buell sold the S3, a Sport-Touring bike typically carrying a passenger, with Sporty/M2 cams to give it the MID-RANGE it needs. But the S3 is toast after this year, so it's kind of a moot point anyway.   Aaron Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 09:28 pm:        José, I think you're on to something there. The Lightning cams have a ton more overlap than the Cyclone cams. Overlap essentially gives the exhaust system a greater influence over the powerband, allowing it to help more when it's drawing and hurt more when it's creating reversion. It would stand to reason that if the stock exhaust is creating reversion in the mid range (and I have reason to believe it is), it would have a much worse effect on X1's and S3's than on M2's. So a good muffler would bring much more to the party on an X1 or S3 than it does on an M2. Excellent observation.   José_Quiñones Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 10:07 pm:        Credit goes to Kip Woodring (?) in Battletwin, who observed this when he first did exhaust tests on 99 models, and raved about the stock M2.   Aaron Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 10:55 pm:        Yeah, okay, I remember that, but I didn't put 2 and 2 together (i.e. cause and effect) until your post. More evidence of a mid range reversion. You gotta wonder if that reversion isn't causing some of the rear cylinder issues we see. Hmm. Probably shouldn't speculate without hard data. You also gotta wonder how these motors would run with a Lightning-ish intake close point, to give good top end, but Cyclone-ish overlap, to resist the mid range reversion. Might get the best of both worlds.   Chrism Posted on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 06:32 am:        Aaron, you mentioned using a turn-out and then the competition end cap. What's the difference? I bought your old 2" Supertrapp which had a turnout that had stamped in it " For Competition use only". Do I need to be running dscs also. when I received it from you it had just the turn out. Look forward to hearing from you.   Spike Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 04:38 pm:        Aaron, Any chance you ran one without any discs at all? I just installed an IDS on my M2 this afternoon. I tried running all 15 discs at first, but then I pulled out all the discs just to see how it sounded. It's much louder now with a lot more bark. I was wondering if I hurt performance by running the muffler completely open. Did you try running more than 20 discs? I'll probably order extra discs anyway just so I can experiment. Thanks, Mike L. '99 Cyclone   Bluzm2 Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 04:49 pm:        Spike, I've got about 1500 miles or so on my ST IDS. I have 15 disc's with the solid end cap. It "loosens up" a bit the more miles you rack up. Mine picked up a bit more of a throaty sound after 1K. Probably due to the internal packing loosening up a bit. I was wondering about more discs also. It looks like you could get maybe 5 more in before internal space runs out. I also considered placing stainless steel washers between the discs. If you tighten the disc bolts too tight, you flatten the discs and reduce the space available for exhaust to exit. Adding washers would serve the same purpose as adding more discs (I think) and prevent problems from over tightening. I may give it a shot after I return from CO. Brad   Aaron Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 06:27 pm:        Spike ... yeah I did ... but I gotta go find the data ... I remember I didn't like what I saw.   Spike Posted on Tuesday, June 11, 2002 - 09:03 pm:        Aaron, I really appreciate the help. I just drove it about 80 miles on the highway with no discs and it's definitely loud. It's not quite completely obnoxious, but I can really feel it in my ears. I usually wear ear plugs for highway runs, but this was an experiment. On the other hand, I absolutely *love* the sound and when running through the gears I can't get enough of it. If I can find some happy medium between completely open and 15 discs I'll be doing good. While I'm at it, did you try running more than 20 discs? Thanks again! Mike L. '99 Cyclone   Aaron Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 12:20 am:        Here's the best open pull, against the best 20 disc pull. No, I didn't try more than 20 discs, didn't have enough screw.   Road_Thing Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 08:02 am:        ASW: I guess we all know how THAT feels... r-t (...can't resist a hanging curve ball...)   José_Quiñones Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 09:15 pm:        Hey Aaron, I just bought one of these (for $150 BRAND NEW) and the instructions recommend 10-12 disks for the F.I. models. I went ahead and put 10 disks. It's pretty quiet, which I like, but my "buttometer" didn't notice much difference. Looks much better than the stock one, though. Do you think it would be worth it to go all the way to 15 disks?   Aaron Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 10:58 pm:        IMO, the only way to answer that is to put it on the dyno and try it. Bring it over!   Spike Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 12:44 am:        $150 brand new!?!? I paid $288 for mine out the door with my employee discount. No fair! Mike L. '99 Cyclone   José_Quiñones Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 06:57 am:        My girfriend Linda would love to do that (ride all the way to Colorado and back) but I don't have enough annual leave to do that!!! Thanks for the offer!   José_Quiñones Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 06:59 am:        Mike, Yep it was a screaming deal, I was using the stock muffler and was happy with it until this "offer I could not refuse" turned up.   Lake_Bueller Posted on Thursday, June 13, 2002 - 11:18 am:        I only paid $150 for mine at Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse!!! I'm running 15 discs in my 98 S3T. Good sound and "seat of the dance" is awesome. Trying to find time for a dyno tune. Too busy riding if I'm not working.   Vtwin2 Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 01:34 pm:        Aaron, I was wondering if there is a big difference of 20 discs with the end cap on, vs the end cap off ? T.I.A.   Aaron Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 01:47 pm:        (on edit) Oh wait ... look above, I tested fully open versus 20 discs. Is that what you're asking? I didn't try 20 discs with no end cap, I can't imagine the discs do anything without some kind of an end cap to cause exhaust to go through them. Closest I came to that was the competition end cap, which has a hole in the center (2" maybe?). See posts above ... no chart for that test but I report that it ran much like the 20 disc/closed end cap arrangement.   Wruffus Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 02:03 pm:        Aaron, Just wanted to thank you for posting this kind of information. It's really nice of you to do.   Vtwin2 Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 03:22 pm:        Aaron, I guess you answered my question. I had been running 20 discs, w/o an end cap, and thought it might be the same as 0 disc open end cap. Other dyno tuners had said taking the end cap off would increase top end power. No one showed me proof. I know it hurt a Twinkie motor with a E Series 2 into 1 to take off the end cap. Horsies went up 1, but torque dropped 3, so it wasn't worth it. Anyway I put the end cap on, and midrange does feel a little better, and it feels like it pulls from low rpm better. Thanks, Ivan   Reepicheep Posted on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 06:33 pm:        (Thought I posted this already, but it dissapeared). Anyway, I just got a supertrapp IDS... 2000 M2 Stock Carb, 200 main, 45 low speed, stock needle Forcewinder, hogged out vent line stock cams So, I am thinking 10 or 12 disks. The primary reason I got the muffler was the looks, and the character of the sound. I don't want it a whole lot louder, and I will take any power I can get within reasonable sound levels. I prefer torque over peak power. Based on the charts above, I am not expecting a huge power gain. I know that I won't get a perfectly dialed in value until I hit a dyno with an A/F guage, but this is a pretty basic setup and wondered if anyone else had a measured and dialed in setup for me to start from. Thanks! That trapp looks like a REALLY well made part. Looks more like sculpture.   Reepicheep Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 08:02 am:        Oh yeah... and the Supertrapp instructions say to seal the elbow where the header joins. I have some RTV Black, should I use that? Or is there special exhaust stuff I should be looking for. I am carb'd, so the silicone should not be a problem (I have no O2 sensor).   Lake_Bueller Posted on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 09:35 am:        Bill, I used a high temp copper seal found in the automotive section of my local hardware store. I beleive that is also what SuperTrapp recommends. You're right about the new design looking more well made. I have a bike with a Trapp & one with a V&H. Overall, I like the Trapp for looks, sound AND performance. I think I'm up to 18 discs in my S3T. I'm now running a Makuni Flatslide Carb with the Buell race air cleaner. This thing flat out hauls a$$!!!   Reepicheep Posted on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 07:26 pm:        Thanks lake, I will hunt some up. Gotta get some high temp antisieze anyway... might be the same stuff.   Robx1 Posted on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 11:16 pm:        I'm running a 2000 X1 with race ECM with the IDS muffler totally gutted. It's loud but my mechanic feels (seat of his pants) its not lacking torque. In my opinion,I love the sound and less weight. Can anyone predict future problems with my setup? I also have a PC3   Blake Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 10:29 pm:        Cramps from grinning too much? Excessive tire wear?   Tripp Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 11:18 am:        how does that muffler stack up against the nrhs sig series? did you do any pulls after switching to the sig series but with the same mods? i was saving up to have my heads done but my exhaust is falling apart so now i'm saving up for that instead, $150 aint a bad price is the sig series three times as good price versus quality?   Tripp Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 11:22 am:        after reading the thread again i discovered the bike really has no mods besides carb so i guess it's like comparing apples to oranges, oh well..

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