| Author | Message | ||
     Birdy |
Well I guess if you ride a motorcycle in Indiana not much say. And they wonder why we have a "Bad" 'tude  (ALBION) - A young Texas mother received a 90-day prison sentence for causing a crash in Kendallville in July of 2006 that killed a Sturgis man. 20-year-old Victoria Garza will spend the remainder of a two-year sentence on probation. Garza was the driver of a car that was speeding more than 60 miles per hour when she lost control and struck a motorcycle driven by 29-year-old Mark Lipscomb of Sturgis. He died as a result of his injuries. Garza and two other passengers were injured. She pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter and criminal recklessness. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Depends. Have I been born yet?  | ||
| Jb2 |
Birdy, The kid who killed my Dad received a 45 day sentence for his actions in North Carolina. He was under the influence and driving at a high rate of speed when he turned left in front of him. He had also been charged previously with possession of stolen property, distribution of stolen property and possession of a controlled substance. His lawyer cut a deal to have sentencing handed down on all four counts at one hearing even though they were separate events. He received 45 days for each offense for a total of 180 days with two years probation. He also did not lose his license or even have them suspended. Sometimes/many times the law protects and enables the criminal. JB2 | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
In both cases I wouldn't be surprised if the respective judges were paid off. It happens more then one would like to admit. | ||
| Froggy |
In a way I am glad they got the guys in both of those cases, even though it sucks that they got off with a little jail time and some probation. Many others get away without being caught or if they are caught they get nothing. You just have to hope for the best and hope the criminal will suffer with a guilty conscience for the rest of their life, unlike me.  | ||
| Teddagreek |
The law is just F#$Ked... Whats the difference between killing someone with a car and a gun.... Nothing! | ||
| Buellerandy |
A little word known as "intent" Unless you go around all day pointing a gun at people constantly, then one day accidentally pulling the trigger... With vehicular homicide, you have to prove the driver had the intent to kill someone with their vehicle purposely not accidentally. How easy is it to run someone over purposely and act like it was an accident after the fact when the paramedics and officers arrive on scene... | ||
| Iamike |
Happens to bicyclists quite regularly. | ||
| Bad_karma |
Drive under the influence should be enough to be consider "intent". Joe | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
Why are you talking about "intent".... take them to court and bring a civil suit against them.... much easier to win, and make sure you take everything they have along with it.... | ||
| Oldog |
He received 45 days for each offense for a total of 180 days with two years probation. He also did not lose his license or even have them suspended. Sometimes/many times the law protects and enables the criminal. All To True, }Why are you talking about "intent".... take them to court and bring a civil suit against them.... much easier to win, and make sure you take everything they have along with it.... If I understood the story correctly, there is nothing to take ..... Sadly the system Failed here and Failed Badly  I wish that If DUI and manslaughter occours It would become MURDER2 just like H&R a bike if caught min 10 years no questions asked once proven guilty.. (Message edited by oldog on February 01, 2008) | ||
| Buellerandy |
That'd be awesome to have the 10 year minimum on a hit and run. | ||
| Azxb9r |
Happens to bicyclists quite regularly Don't even get me started  A few years back a "safe passing distance" law was passed in Az. Motorists are required to give bicycles a minimum of 3ft. when passing. The law is only enforced if the cyclist is struck. If the cyclist dies, the driver is given a $250 citation. Doesnt seem like much of a punishment to me. | ||
| Birdy |
$250.00? I like that...OH that's not the fee to be able to run down the twits who pass these laws? I ride Bicycles and have for years and yep the twits in cars will run over and then sue YOU because their bumper got bent or paint got nicked. I guess if you want the law on your side ya gotta be a crook and in jail. Says something sad about America. | ||
| Jb2 |
In our case, a civil law suit would have only gained a huge bill from the attorneys. The kid who was responsible was penniless and under order from the state to report for "work camp". His girlfriend and illegitimate child were already on the system. He failed to report to camp and was on the run when he hit Dad. North Carolina law says they have to have reasonable suspicion before ordering a drug/alcohol test. They sent him to the lock-up after the wreck where he was supposed to be held. The State Police interviewed witnesses and made the decision there was probable cause to have him tested. Before the officer could get the test ordered the kid's lawyer had bailed him out. That was a communication problem between the State officers and the local officers who released him. Once the kid walked out no test would hold up in court. BTW, they did a blood/alcohol test on Dad as a part of the autopsy. The final snafu was the NC maximum benefit for accidental homicide was $10,000.00. Progressive fought my mother on the payment and tried to show Dad was partially at fault. Mom's lawyer won the case for her and as you can probably figure out the lawyer fees were close to $10,000.00. BTW after Progressive lost their law suit they paid for the motorcycle too which was $500.00 more than they paid for Dad's life. Go figure. (Message edited by jb2 on February 01, 2008) | ||
| Rah7777777 |
All this really gets me going!!!!  The US system is so F'ed up its not even funny! I mean everything from what happened to JB2 to the monsters on death row. its so screwed up. How someone can confess to killing 11 children and only get life in prison, how someone can kill a biker and get 45 days, how someone can kill 3 teens and only get "sent" back to there home country. How someone can kill someone for there SHOES! and get only a year! and these are just some screwed up reports I remember hearing. I know there are thousands more out there. And then you can have some one not pay taxes and get twice the time as a murderer or rapist. if it was my call the prisons would be pretty empty and the graves would be much larger and then you'd have a good amount of people missing fingers and private parts! I hope this country gets back to its roots and realizes it was "an eye for an eye" in the beginning for a good reason. | ||
| 46champ |
Kinda bad that the only part of Christianity that most bleeding hearts can quote is "Judge not least ye be judged". | ||
| Buellerandy |
that quote's still around? :P Our government must be "catch 22ing" that one til death do us part. | ||
| Oldog |
Kinda bad that the only part of Christianity that most bleeding hearts can quote is "Judge not least ye be judged". Thats out of context and it does not mean that, a better way to think of it is no one is better than any one else and to think so invites GOD's judgment. The story of the Good samaritan is an example, the folks who left the traveler on the side of the road bleeding and beaten felt that they were to good or important to help the man, While the lowly smaritan stopped and aided the man who had been robbed and beaten expecting nothing in return. hope this country gets back to its roots and realizes it was "an eye for an eye" in the beginning for a good reason. Thats how it works in Baghdad what do you think is it a good model? In JB2's case and in others [ I have been hit and the offenders' ticket got lost ] The system needs to be examined and altered to prevent gross miscarrages of the law, A shrewd lawyer can wiggle a client out of a lot of things, [ see posts above ] and twist things around [ ask me how I know.. ] Infact JB2's attitude about the whole thing while not the "bleeding heart" angle but finding the grace to accept it and to find what good that came out of it should be an insperation to all, Jim my hat is off to you my friend...... } We have one of the better systems of law it needs work perhaps some day... | ||
| Oldog |
if it was my call the prisons would be pretty empty and the graves would be much larger and then you'd have a good amount of people missing fingers and private parts! I feel you BUT, what about the instances where years later the Criminal is CLEARED of the charges because missing evidence is found, Or like Kobe Bryant has sex with a woman feigning interest only to be brought up on rape charges then later cleared after the fact because she was looking for money or the like. In JB2's case I will use it as a specific ( sorry Jim ) IMO The young man should be in jail or better yet work camp to this day earning some money to help support his bastard child. When released in say 2025 he should forefit his rights to vote, bear arms and his driving privledge. The problem with death and dismemberment is that you cant undo it if an error has ocuured, In some cases like the sicko that killed the young marine If proven BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT then and only then death, Oh and on the subject of "WORK CAMP" it seems that we need a barrier twixt here and mexico can you think of a better project for these folks VS "club fed" Just some thoughts from the porch...} | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
It is a matter of intent. If you carry a weapon you are showing intent. You get in a car there is no malicious intent. I honestly don't think that she got in the car and said "I am gonna kill me a motorcyclist today." It was an accident. You see accidental discharge of firearms handled the same way. At least in the way the law looks at it. Now his family can sue her and her insurance company in Civil court for his lost projected lost wages, and pain in suffering and win easily. It is justice but in a different sense. How much is your life worth? According to Ford per the entire ford Pinto thing. $200k which is what they estimated it would cost to settle your case against them for an estimated $49.5 million total where the fix to prevent the fires would have cost $137 million. $200k is the number for a human life. A friend of my mother lost a son to a drunk driver, she sends her son a birthday card, anniversary card and Christmas card to the guys who killed him. Just to refresh his memory. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
On the matter of Justice. Is it right or fair that the kid who robs a stop and rob gets 25 years. When CFO and CEO rape companys for millions and get 3 years at club fed. I would go to jail for 3 years if I had a couple of million waiting when I got out. | ||
| Oldog |
It is a matter of intent. If you carry a weapon you are showing intent. You get in a car there is no malicious intent. I honestly don't think that she [he] got in the car and said "I am gonna kill me a motorcyclist today." It was an accident. I don't dis agree on that point on intent, the accident was preventable in that he should have been locked up by that time. [ failure of the system again ] My beef is that He got in the car while IMPAIRED and caused a DEATH and recieved punishment that was far too light IMO the young man should be in confimenent to this day for amny many more years to come. While he not showing "malovelent" intent It shows 1. Lack of respect for the lives and safety of others. [ this could be interpreted as malovelent ] 2. He was fleeing the police IIRC which is a lack of respect for the law To me this shows a chilling issue in some instances it appears that the "system" does not care to be concerned with the "details" but seeks to simply process the perp, Case In point WHY IS IT NOT LAW THAT IN ANY VEHICULAR MANSLAUGHTER CASE BEFORE THE DEFENDANT IS JAILED OR RELEASED ON BAIL HE/SHE MUST BE GIVEN BLOOD ALCOHOL AND DRUG TESTS, failure to do so by the enforcement or legal authorities result in stringent penalties and IF REFUSED BY THE DEFENDANT IT SERVES AS AN ADMISSION OF GUILT? | ||
| Oldog |
I totaly agree with you on that one the CEO / CFO are convicted that they should be punished for the crime [ yes the bastards at ENRON should be spending the next 20 years behind bars look how many were harmed by the loss of their savings ] The kid who robbed the store, previous arrests? record? was he armed? [ that has a bearing on sentancing here ] he broke the law and was prepaired to use deadly force to inflict his will so yes 20 years building the wall / roads / disaster cleanup no club fed..... | ||
| Court |
Could do it like we do here . . . guy ran out of a liquor store on Thursday . . . shop owner ran out behind him . . . screaming "I've been robbed". . . . two Sanitation workers (formerly known as "garbage men") used their truck to cut the guy off. . . jumped out . . . took the guys gun, beat him with a trash can and held him until police arrived. | ||
| Court |
>>>Drive under the influence should be enough to be consider "intent". Unless you are rich. My former boss (he fired me when I refused to do something unethical and illegal in relation to a minority business requirement on the 42 story Times Square Tower at 42nd and Broadway) was arrested last year for his 17th DUI. Think you or I would ever make it to 17? If got funnier when he was given community service and tried to bribe his parole officer to say he did the service . . dumb •••• wrote her a check for $30,000 and she, just as stupid, cashed it. My wife calls me one day . . . "hey, isn't that Al?" , sure enough he's doing the perp walk in cuffs. Even I know to shut up if arrested and he's babbling . . . "oh you mean the money for the little league". Of course, he got off the bribery too and it was an entire year before the FBI arrested him for fleecing the city for $2m for fraud on street lighting and taking $87,000 from . . you guessed it . . the I.B.E.W. Little Legue. Life's funny. | ||
| Birdy |
This takes the cake and then we wonder WHY they do stuff when the grow up. Notice the line about "They may not be charged" I know it's not life and death BUT it sure sends, Sure it's OK to steal from a Girl Scout.  I think about 5 years would settle their hash. http://http://www.news4jax.com/news/15198846/detai l.html (Message edited by Birdy on February 02, 2008) (Message edited by Birdy on February 03, 2008) | ||
| Oldog |
two Sanitation workers (formerly known as "garbage men") used their truck to cut the guy off. . . jumped out . . . took the guys gun, beat him with a trash can and held him until police arrived. how inspiring!  the sanitation workers after taking $hit all the time, get a chance to hand some out CLASSIC!, 'Side you Know its better to Give than receive  Seriously I hope that they were recognized and rewarded for the act, that took a lot of courage! | ||
| Oldog |
I think about 5 years would settle their hash. I can't believe that the kid told the news reporter that she was pissed that she got caught and she needed the money No concept of wrong doing at all | ||
| Icon12r |
My father would have whooped my ass for doing something like that... Who's to put the fear of god in these kids if the parents can't? |
