| Author | Message | ||
     Jim_M |
Good to hear he is OK. And you're right, who cares ,so long as you're still here. | ||
| Gcpoland |
Even the best helmets out there cannot stop the brain from slamming into the skull during a sudden stop. This can cause memory loss, without any exterior bruising or damage. The effects can be quite unnerving(sp). I had it happen 2 times on the track. I still don't remember the first, but over time, my memory of the second incident came back to me. Tell him to give it time and the memories might come back. It hasn't affected me long term, and I am just as normal today as I ever was.(If I ever was normal) Gary | ||
| X1glider |
Very true. Can we say "concussion?" The effects are more than unnerving and each successive one has worse effects. Perhaps Stephen would like to talk to Eric Lindros (7 concussions) about it sometime. He should keep track of things like headaches, blurred vision, inconsistent motor skills (Not the Buell kind) and such and make a record of it, just in case, for medical and legal reasons. Good that he feels ok. I want a picture posted of his new table lamp. BTW, what make/model was the helmet? | ||
| Court |
Good points all. The EPS (Expanded Polystyrene) layer in the helmet CONTROLS the rate of deceleration through predicable deformation. There's lots more science than I may indicate and I'm confident that Blake and Aaron could explain it but ANY control over deceleration is better than NONE. Need proof ?  The world's first high-speed sled deceleration track was built at Edwards AFB in the mid-1940s. There, at this 2,000-foot experimental facility, Lt. Col. John P. Stapp and his team of aeromedical researchers strapped themselves into rocket sleds in order to test the stresses of modern jet flight upon the human body. On June 1, 1951, Col. Stapp survived an unprecedented 48-g deceleration. The construction of Edwards' 10,000 foot high-speed sled track soon followed. Compared to an "outdoor wind tunnel", it was used for rocket sled tests at speeds in excess of Mach 2. | ||
| X1glider |
48g deceleration?! That sound a WHOLE lot worse than riding into a brick wall. Helmets: I remember when bicycle helmets first went to compressed polystyrene pellets for shell liners. I thought, "NO WAY!" that would hurt my head. I still don't know, but some of my friends do. It seems as though they spread the impact over a greater area of the skull (by deforming into somewhat of a cradle) to keep from localizing the damage on the skull. As far as "controlling" the rate of deceleration, I'm not sure if it's an issue when the material only compresses 1/2" (on a bicycle helmet). The material also conforms to the matter is it impacting too. Modern helmets are awesome. The bicycle helmet manufacturers (BELL for sure) have a crash program where you send in your damaged helmet and you get a wee discount on a new one. They get to analyze a real-world damaged helmet for R&D instead of the ones they damage in a "controled" environment. I don't know if a motorcycle helmet crash program exists, but it should. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Court... Any word from the witnesses? I would not rule out the possibility that he had a seizure or a loss of conciousness of some sort. We have a family member with an old head injury, and she gets them sometimes. She generally cannot remember anything from a few minutes before they hit to about an hour or two afterwards. That would explain a lot... he just lost conciousness and fell off the bike, and was nice and loose when he hit, and just slid to a stop. The bike engine braked and just fell over, did a light low side, or slid up against the siderail and came gently to a rest. He could also been doing a controlled brake as he was loosing conciousness... The couple times I have passed out, I know even after loosing vision I was able to walk to a chair and sit down before going out completely. More then enough time to scrub off a lot of speed and get closer to a breakdown lane. Just speculation. Glad he is OK! | ||
| Gian4 |
Court: Sorry for your loss. Thank God for the small silver linings..... Gian4 | ||
| Rick_A |
My condolences Court...and I'm glad to hear Stephen is ok. I've seen the footage of that sled ride. That guy looked a real mess afterwards! | ||
| Awprior |
Hey all, went down to Southfield MI for the Buell demo today. As I was approaching the intersection right at the building where the demo was being held, I got sideswiped by a tow truck. I was going about 30, figure he was going around 35-40. I got hit by the car he was towing. Everyone from the Buell tent came over, made sure I was at least alive. Went to the hospital, no broken bones, just one hell of a bruise on my left thigh and a little bit of road rash. I had angels over my shoulder today. To any of you who were there, thanks for the help, and mad props to the President of Detroit H-D for taking my bike to the shop in the back of his pickup. I still don't really know the condition of the bike, will find that out tomorrow. Since it's Michigan, the accident was goind to be 'no fault'. I'm gonna have a blast when my insurance company doubles my rates... Any suggestions? Alex | ||
| Loki |
Alex, He was good to me once. Had just left the shop after picking up some oil and things. At about twelve mile and Van Dyke my battery shook itself apart. Called them and he and got me and the bike. Glad you were not bent up bad. The bike is in good hands though, if Chris is still plodding around the shop. I did mine on saturday when my bike spit me off on the B-trax course. Bruised ego and some scratches on the beast. loki | ||
| Tbolt834 |
Awprior, First things first, glad to hear you are okay.  Next thing, CALL SAM!!! And I mean it. In case you've never seen the ad, Sam is a local Detroit lawyer. Seriously, your insurance should go after the tow truck company (which has deep pockets) and could go after the insurance company for the car that hit you (it's true, even though the driver was not in it). Even if it's called 'no fault', a judge can make a determination the truck driver was negligent, which can also lead to a criminal and/or civil case. If your insurance company doesn't do it, get a police report from Southfield PD. It may cost $5, but it's good money spent. Regardless, scout around for a lawyer that will take this on a contingency, (and there are many) because this has great potential. If people in downtown Detroit can get $1 - $2 million for being hit by a bus and surviving, then you'll do okay. One hell of a way to get up the dough for a new Firebolt though.  Also keep in mind the longer term scenario, you may feel fine today, but you should have a CAT or MRI scan for concealed damage (spine, other bones, ligaments; some closed head injuries often don't show up, even though you were wearing a helmet). Lastly, do not trust your insurance to be working in your best interest. Think of them as real estate agents. They are in the insurance business, and they only want to negotiate a quick settlement. Dave | ||
| Bkbelew |
 Hey all, i had a mishap with my 2002 buell x1,, it stranded me in the middle of no where,,,, and today,, i finally got a reply from the dealership ,, over a month later, but oh well,,, heres whats wrong with my bike http://www.illfaded.com/brandon/news.html whats your opinion on what happened? brandon | ||
| Blake |
Brandon, Bad/painfully slow link, please just post your story here. | ||
| Dust_Storm |
And that would be detination, ouch.. Were you running above redline for a good amount of time? Looks awfully similar to Aaron's Blast head after the salt run... and awfully expensive...  [Ds] | ||
| Sarodude |
Brandon- Was the a valve spring retainer on the ground in one of those pictures? If so, did part of the valve stem happen to come off with it? | ||
| X1glider |
Got rear ended on my X1 on the way to the bike shop on Saturday. And typical of Texas fashion, I couldn't speak the proper language to get license and insurance info from them. The cops EVENTUALLY came and handled things. The guy behind me had an isurance card (good or not, I don't know yet) and the guy who caused it didn't have any at all. I thought these bastards were supposed to get a ride in the blue taxi for no insurance!? I should have called the INS while I was waiting. What happened was I was in line waiting for the light to change. The guy behind me was stopped too. Then someone smacked into him. Pushed the car behind me into my bike. Probably only amounted to a 5-8 mph impact but definitely enough to do some damage to aluminum and mechanical steel tubing. Nothing visible to me but I've got a guy here who does the non-destuctive testing of parts checking it out later. Will probably x-ray or ultrasonic it. I'll notify my insurance regardless and let them deal with getting money if need be. That's what I pay them for, no sense in me wasting my time and money. But for anyone who's dealt with people without insurance and doesn't speak English, I can use some advice on how to get money out of them. Even if the bike is ok, I wouldn't mind getting the D&D full exhaust, race ECM and K&N out of them. Anyone want to write a fraudulant estimate for me?  Oh and to top it all off, the cop gets an attitude with me because I didn't notify him I have a concealed hangun licence. It wasn't even on me. Said it didn't matter. Not was I was told in my class. Probably happened since I was the only white guy there.  | ||
| Buelliedan |
X1, I'm pretty sure that the only time you have to tell the cop you have a concealed permit is when you are actually carrying. Sounds like you might want to make a complaint to his superiors, especially since you were the victim and he was treating you this way. | ||
| Roadrunr |
X1; your best bet would be to either x-ray or do a penetrant test on the frame welds. ultrasonics wont do much good unless you do shear wave which is hard to do on that small a dia. tubing, and all but imposible to do on the tail section due to the variance in metal thickness. To do penetrant you will have to take the frame welds down to bare metal, but it is the cheapest way. Glad ya didn't get squashed though!  GOOD LUCK with the testing. Steve | ||
| Blake |
Just have the frame and swingarm checked out for proper geometry. Any significant yielding would have knocked the geometry out of whack. If the car's bumper hit your rear tire at only 5-8 mph, I'd be surprised if you have anything serious wrong with your bike's frame or swingarm. The tire would have provided a decent cushion. Definitely won't hurt to have it looked at though. You might check the swingarm bearings too. Did the bike get knocked out from under you? | ||
| Coop |
x1glider, I carry my pistol wherever I go, I live in a city that has some undesirable neighborhoods in it, and I go thru them a lot on my bike, would hate to break down in a bad neighborhood and not be able to protect myself and my bike, been pulled over twice with my bike and being the responsible citizen that I am, I mentioned to the cops that I was carrying, they had major attitudes and even pointed guns at me, even after they found out I was legal they were giving me a hard time, next time I think I will keep my mouth shut, and the next time ali baba in the taxi cab cuts me off and almost kills me I'm gonna give him a tune up. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Coop... IMHO... I think that would be an exceptionally bad idea. Just comply with the laws of your state.. if they require you to notify the officer of a CCW permit / carry, then do so. If not, just answer any questions he asks or politely decline to answer based upon what you know are your rights. You are lucky to be in a CCW state at all. Here in Ohio, we are basically only allowed to carry if it turns out we would have ended up dead if we hadn't. If we are carrying before we are killed, it's just illegal. If it turns out we wern't carrying and were killed, then we would have been allowed to carry after all. The courts keep saying its unconstitutional, but our third Republican govenor in a row refuses to sign the shall issue licensing into law. They all run saying they will do it, then come up with some lame reason to keep it from being signed into law once they get in office. Enough to make me seriously consider a protest vote. But I digress Anyway, do those of us without the right a favor and treat your right with respect. Use it to defend yours or others lifes, and be polite and respectful the rest of the time. And that brings up another topic... Those of you that carry on the bike, do you worry about being incapacitated in an accident and having the weapon fall into the wrong hands? (more likely someone just unable to safely handle a weapon then criminal, but could be either I guess). You can ask Court about the realities of a gunfight. Nobody wins. | ||
| Coop |
reepicheep, I will notify the officer the next time I get pulled over and I was polite and cooperative, I can understand them taking defense when they found out I was carrying, but after they found out I was legal they still had attitudes, different cops each time too, I guess it all depends of the officer too, and I dont think carrying a pistol on a bike or a car or just walking makes any difference, years ago after an auto accident the medics in the ambulance took my pistol off me and later I had to pick it up at the police station, I dont know if the medics were able to safely handle the pistol or not, but you can become incapacitated doing anything. | ||
| Court |
>>>>You can ask Court about the realities of a gunfight. Nobody wins. And, the damage done by being shot pales in comparison to what the courts are going to inflict on you emotionally. Worst thing that ever happened to me was being grilled for a day and a half by Charles Scott (see also Brown v. Topeka Board of Education) on the witness stand ..... Sucks. | ||
| Mikej |
The Firing Line. Never subjugate your right into a privilege. The best place to be in a gunfight is someplace else. | ||
| Rick_A |
I carry a knife which is concealed as a different article. I have made it through all manner of security/customs checks with it...and I sure as hell won't tell anyone where/what it is. As far as I see it it's my damn right, not a privaledge! | ||
| Reepicheep |
My turn Left turn, aggressive, but probably close to 70% of my and the bikes capabilities... leaned pretty far, but not hanging out over the bike draging my knee or anything, just your normal nice carved turn. What I did not see was about a 12 inch long, 6 inch deep, 8 inch wide "U" shaped indentation in the road. Very steep profile, very deep, like water had eroded away under the asphalt, and the asphalt just conformed to the surface. This was on a sunny day, with mottled sun showing through some leaves for patchy light. I have no idea if the front or the back (or both) hit the hole, all I know is that I was sliding on my side with the bike in front of me. Two sets of skid marks (from both front and rear tire) radiate out from the hole, one coming right out and the other starting about a foot beyond it. My Cyclone did a single slow sliding 90 degree rotation, I slid up to the curb, where I rolled up and right onto my feet. The entire bike slid and pivoted soley on my Banke shifter main mounting bolt and my left side Napolean bar end mirror. Remarkably, while both these items show some new radius's, neither is seriously hurt. My clutch lever was bent up, but straightened out easily (new one on order). My ($300!) helmet never touched the ground, my Joe Rocket ballistic jacket gave me a slight rugburn on my left elbow from where it crept (about an inch), the elbow, shoulder, and back pads in the jacket could not have done a better job, no other scrapes or bruises of any kind. It was stinking hot here, and I was still wearing all my gear OK... not all my gear, the riding pants were in the closet (I was running to the office to do some paperwork), so I trashed a set of dockers (they look pretty scary, lots of holes ground, punctered, and ripped in lots of places). I got two sliver dollar sized rasberries on my left knee, one quarter side rasberry on my right knee. Nothing else. The riding boots got a pretty bad scrape across the top of the left toe, but no damage to me. The guy who watched the whole thing was nice enough to lean out the window and ask "You OK?", but thats it, nobody else even stopped, which I guess is OK, I had the bike up, running, and off the road and pulled into a driveway in less then a minute. Major lesson learned? This is my first crash, with one other "might as well have been a crash but I pulled it out anyway". Both were what I would call "unavoidable road hazzards", cases that cause an (at least momentary) complete lack of traction, and that are not possible to detect by watching the road no matter how carefull you think you are being. Both this and the other case required me going back to where it happened, and staring at the road for a good minute before I spotted the hidden hazzard. I don't think 30% is enough margin, and I need to back it down to more like 50% on the turns. I was wearing a good helmet, motorcycle boots, Joe Rocket Ballistic jacket, and gloves (the armored Buell gloves did a great job as well). Had I been wearing pants, I would have had no injury at all. The only real injury was my ego. Damages: Clutch Lever: $13 Bandaids, Etc: $14 Dockers : $20 Ego Check: $Priceless All in all, a very good outcome as wrecks go, thank God. These bikes really hold up well in a slide, I was astounded to find no damage. The Napoleans were not even significantly damaged. I had far more damage to the bike when it just fell over (same side) in a parking lot when the previous owner was getting ready to load it in a truck. Amazing! Bill "Eating humble pie" Kilgallon | ||
| Psychobueller |
Holy *$%#. I crashed my Cyclone last week too. On a Charity Poker run at Americade. Following Dad, not paying enough attention to the road with all that buelltiful scenery surrounding me. Dad slowed suddenly to make a right, I reacted late and locked the front brake on the wet pavement. In an instant I am thrown to the ground and looking at my pristine bike on it's side. Tore a huge hole in my Forcewinder, scraped my headers, scraped the clutch lever, master cylinder, and smashed my mirror. No other damage. Not too bad. I was fine, though I needed a new helmet after a faceplant into the pavement. Don't ever tell me you don't need a full face. You'd be picking my teeth off the ground if not for my chin bar. Scrape on left knee, small raspberry on left forearm. Sore hands. Not too bad. I was really bummed. But it could have been a lot worse. Cyclone finished out the week without incident. | ||
| Onlyblue |
I don't know if it was Murphy's law or just my turn, but after motorcycling off and on for about 35 of my 52 years, I had an accident on the street. I'm sharing this with you because it just proved to me that you cannot be prepared for every possible threat. Ok, my S3 and I are leaned over in a really nice lefty with very little traffic in the area: except this lady in a Suburban a couple of car lengths in front. Oh and a yellow Lab riding in the front passenger seat. As the Suburban begins its acceleration through the lefty, the Lab tumbles out of the vehicle and lands directly in my arc and doesn't move! Well, the dog was ok and I and the S3 suffered very little damage. But, if there's any advice on how to brake a motorcycle hard and quick while leaned over, without ending up on your butt, please email me back. I don't want to experience this again. | ||
| Blake |
Onlyblue, If you have never taken the motorcycle safety foundation (MSF) courses, that would be by far the best way to safely learn better emergency maneuvering techniques. I'm trying to imagine how a dog could fall out of the right side of a suburban in the midst of a left hand turn and end up in front of your bike. I can only come up with two scenarios. Either you where tracking along the right side of the lane, or there were two or more lanes in your direction of travel, and the suburban was in a lane to your left. The MSF courses teach to always leave yourself the maximum flexibility and visibility for conducting an emergency maneuver and for being seen by potential threats like other vehicles pulling out or turning in front of you. If riding right of center in a right hand lane, you severely limit your on-road options for obstacle avoidance, you can only stop, avoid left, or a combination of the two. Of course you can go off the road to the right, but that is most often not a good idea. If the suburban was in a lane to your left and the hapless canine fell out landing in front of you, he/she should in most cases continue to slide to the right towards the outside of the curve. So the best choice would probably be to avoid left. If your pegs aren't scraping, and the road is clean and dry, you will be surprised at how hard you can squeeze the front brake and/or how much further you can lean. Think which has more traction... a dog sliding/tumbling down the road, or your tires. The main thing in a panic stop is to squeeze the lever easily at first with progressively more force as the front end loads up. A panicky hard grab can upset your suspension and more easily cause you to lose the front end. I periodically take to an empty parking lot and practice panick stops. A few days on the racetrack practicing braking into the apexes of some tight turns vastly improved my confidence in applying the front brake while leaned over. I do NOT practice trail braking on the street. I try to always ride on the street according to "The Pace". | ||
| Buelliedan |
Blake, As an MSF instructor I have a small issue with what you wrote. The directions you provided on how to stop quickly in a curve are the basic ones but the more advanced(and faster) way to stop while in a turn is to first straighten the bike up completely then apply maximum braking. This will stop the bike much faster than the way you described. |
