| Author | Message | |||
     Metalstorm |
I'm not sure under the seat would be a viable place for the radiator. I know it's been done before but I can only recall it being done on race bikes which arn't ridden all day. I imagine under the seat could get mighty hot. Leaving looks & style out of the equation, having the radiators on the side does seem to be a smart place to put them. No air blockage and then there's scoops to direct the air through them in just the right fashion. I'm thinking it gets air through at a really good velocity. Decent velocity with just the fans pulling air. Although I can't say that as fact, it is feasible. Off Topic: Rocket, have you ever watched the movie "Cool Hand Luke"? If not you really should. I think you'd enjoy it immensely. You're starting to remind me of the title character. On edit: my saying "you remind me of the title character" is a good thing  (Message edited by metalstorm on January 19, 2008) | |||
| Buellinachinashop |
"Rocket you wouldn't get lynched. We'd all have a favorite beverage and laugh about the BadWeb." Exactly. Ths is suposed to be entertainment. Besides, nobody is running around with name tags. | |||
| Rocketman |
Put it this way, I'm still shaking it Boss  Rocket | |||
| Metalstorm |
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| Elvis |
Balancing "constraints" is what engineering is all about. Minimizing cost while maximizing quality while minimizing complexity while maximizing durability while minimizing weight while maximizing power while minimizing fricton while maximizing traction while minimizing wind resistance while maximizing comfort while minimizing maintenance while maximizing safety while minimizing production labor while meeting all regulatory requirements . . . . . . and then somewhere - way down on the list - is looks. . . (unless you're Harley in which case it's right up front). . . . of course there are no constraints on the internet: "They should just do this, they should just do that. . . " It all seems so easy when you don't have to actually do anything more than type a few words. | |||
| Ft_bstrd |
I believe we've seen your "redesigns" Rocket. You are the Simon Cowell of the motorcycle world. | |||
| Jackbequick |
"..that had downdraught (whatever that means?)..." Read that as "downdraft" for American English. Have you noticed the way the fresh air intakes are more or less atop some of the Buell designs and the air flows downward? That is the downdraft referred to I think. Did the Barton engine have a downdraft carburation system? I've read descriptions of it but don't think I've ever seen any real details of that engine. Jack (Message edited by jackbequick on January 19, 2008) | |||
| Rocketman |
It all seems so easy when you don't have to actually do anything more than type a few words. Looks sell. And Internet blabber mouth typists, like me, buy. There are many Buellers here who've said they won't buy because of the 1125 looks. Maybe that's why they're typing, and not buying. Rocket | |||
| Rocketman |
You are the Simon Cowell of the motorcycle world. Thanks Fats. That's a wonderful compliment, and Simon's a good friend too. Rocket | |||
| Socoken |
Does that mean you can have me introduced to paula? I cant sing for shit but she might be interested in some of my other talents! | |||
| Ft_bstrd |
I've not met you, but he's the closest comparison I could think of. The only criticism I have of him is that for all his critique, he's never created any commercially successful "art" that I know of. | |||
| Rocketman |
I assumed the same too Jack, and that had me imagining a cool and aggressive looking small fairing with a mean mouth and some ducting similar, but more enhanced, to what Kawasaki used on their ZXR750RR.  Rocket | |||
| Rex |
19 years ago, 29 years ago. doesn't really make a difference. I have been doodling and drawing motorcycles myself since I was a kid. No telling how many designs I have drawn. Think about Erik, who is around motorcycles and has actually built different bikes all of his life. don't you think somewhere in there, there was a design he liked and always thought, that is what I would like to do. I would think so. It is with me, ........and I am just an enthusiast, not a professional motorcycle designer. Elvis posts a couple of pages back makes sense. I can imagine sitting around and designing, looking at current bikes and saying: If I could do anything, what would I do? -would be cool to have the gas in the frame -water cooled....but where would get the best air flow, on the side. neat idea -Vtwin motor. yes. lots of torque. light weight -exhaust placement, under the motor.. we have always done this. Rocket, I am sure as you drive along the road on a motorcycle or in a car, you are imagining your bikes and what you can do. I am sure you saw the v8 bike in your mind before you ever put anything on paper, or started the blow torch. who cares if we argue over if he thought about it 19 years ago. If he did, cool, that a dream came to be. we all have motorcycle dreams of what we would like to do. I have been dreaming since I was 13 about my own motorcycle company, how my brand would race in America, and then on the GP circuit. impossible? no? probably will do it? not unless I win the lottery. I don't have to the guts to stop my current job and make the committment. My age? you need to start when you are much younger. Chaneymotorcycles.......though still a dream. Buell Motorcycles..........dreams that have come true. we are just fans of the buell motorcycle. we wouldn't jump off of bridges if erik told us to, but we do admire he and his team for making things happen. nothing wrong with being fans and enthusiasts. REX
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| Rocketman |
Rex, I have no problem with 19 years, nor Erik's dream. I like the way Erik applies his engineering to motorcycles, but where the pods and side mounted radiators are concerned, they should have been integrated in a much more stylish fashion, or not placed there at all. All this talk of best place for best results is nonsense. There are millions of liquid cooled motorcycles that prove radiators work without the need to place them on the side. That Buell stayed with this concept still suggests to me he did so to achieve his optimum chassis geometry which leaves little, if any, room for a forward mounted radiator. Even if the split radiator does work better, there is still no need to go out on a limb (no pun intended, lol) to perfect the cooling system just for designing to be differents sake. And certainly no need to make a bold styling statement that remains controversial. Had the styling being recognisably iconic, that would have been a different matter. But it isn't. Dream, reality, whatever, it's still a design for designs sake, and a constraint at that too. Rocket | |||
| Gregtonn |
Jack nailed it on the down draft comment. Down draft is desirable because it provides a more direct path to the combustion chamber/cylinder for faster and more efficient cylinder charging. Here is an example of what was IMO a beautiful motorcycle concept. It even won a few local races but never make it to the production line. http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/a-technical -look-inside-the-hunwick-hallam-design-45974.html Wow! What a difference a day makes. There's some good stuff on this thread. Greg  | |||
| Rex |
That's cool and that is your opinion,noting wrong with that. All things can be improved upon,and changed to make things look better. Understandable. I think that they could be and can be made to flow with the bike more. I kind like the pods. I have always liked the old style buell airboxes. I had mine painted to match the bike. Glossy black to match the bike. You really do not see them on any other street bike. I even think you could put a matching one on the other side and either increase air cleaner space, or make it a box to carry things. My right leg is always dry behind my airbox, where my left leg gets wet. I think the X1 tailsection didn't match the rest of the frame. A huge aluminum piece connected to a tube frame. You can hide that by matching the color on the tailpiece to the frame. I saw a fullfairing design on badweb somewhere the took the pods and blended them into the faring. looked pretty good. My sons ( 24 and 25 like the full fairing look of the japanese bikes )where I personally like the naked look of a bike and the motor showing. the s1 was one of the coolest looking bikes made. motor wheels and bodywork. looked really good. no problem with your opinion. all bikes can be improved upon. everyone thought the yamaha vmax fake side pannels were ugly, but they have caught on and is a major design for that bike for years. the underslung mufflers are showing up on more and more bikes now. at first no one in the press liked them. now they think it is cool and concentrates the weight and mass. art and design is a personal thing. some sell millions, some sell thousands. some hundreds, or non at all. the first yamaha tdm 850's didn't sell well here. I always thought they were cool looking and owned one. Now all of the off road type bikes look almost the same. cool to discuss. at least you have kept this thread alive for quite a while. have fun, enjoy that big V8.....I don't really like the rear end look of it and think you can make it much smaller and thinner...ahahhaa. have a good day. REX  | |||
| Rex |
i can see a new shirt design. show me your pods...rex | |||
| Metalstorm |
That is by far my favorite view of the bike. Unfortunately, the most common view I get of my buddy's 1125R is the tail light!  | |||
| Rocketman |
That is a great shot, in my opinion, of the 1125. And thanks for just being a nice guy in this thread Rex. I know I'm an arsehole, so it's nice to know someone close to Erik has at least some time for my opinions. I don't really like the rear end look of it and think you can make it much smaller and thinner... Actually Rex, that's the thing the pic's can't seem to catch. It is thin, and proportionally (in a good way) so. And one of the major reasons it looks so good in the flesh.  Rocket | |||
| Gregtonn |
Have you considered a round profile tire such as this:  Also what does the radiator setup look like? | |||
| Rocketman |
Yes. The tyre came with the Mercedes 15 inch wheel from the scrap yard. No point in spending £100 on a tyre when this is only a mock build. The radiator and fan is laid horizontal under the motor. Mass centralisation see, and no pods necessary  Rocket | |||
| Gregtonn |
That placement works nicely for packaging purposes. I hope the cooling efficiency is adequate for your needs. | |||
| Rocketman |
Well Greg, it was never really intended to go far. It's heavy, ponderous, not very fast at the moment, but it was meant to win the traffic light grand prix without so much as even moving. I would love to put a really big HP motor built for carbs in it, and run it for fun at Bonneville just one time. Rocket | |||
| Gregtonn |
The front view Rex posted shows another detail of the pod design which is not readily apparent. Notice the vertical divider. On the inside of the divider is an opening designed to increase the speed of the air entering that opening. On the outside of the divider is an opening allowing higher volume at lower speed. When the motorcycle is underway this creates a pressure differential and air flow through the radiator cores without need for a fan. Cool. | |||
| Gregtonn |
Sean, You've probably seen a V8 engine with a Weber cross draft carb setup on it. That would keep the profile low and give you all the fuel/air you would want. Greg | |||
| Metalstorm |
Well, I just got back from trying out Bigblock's 1125R. Forgive me this post as it is 100% reflection on the ride I just had. I really did think that the Helicon was a purposely built bike with every bit of her planned & executed with the intent of being the best she could be. After actually riding it I have to say I was wrong. It is in fact so much more!!! Earlier today, after it had been ridden (by it's owner) for quite a bit, she sat and idled for well over 10 minutes and during all that time the temperature kept fluctuating between 173 & 174. It was a cool day, somewhere in the low to mid 70's so I really don't know how much merit this has but not once during that time did the fans kick in. Those side mounted radiators really work well. My XB fan meanwhile made it's self heard The fairing is unreal. Just prior to riding the 1125R this evening, I was on my 12Scg with the grips on low. I had my heated vest donned but not turned on yet but was on the verge of doing so. By the time I got to try out the bike it had gotten quite a bit colder but to my amazement, I did not need either vest or gloves. This 1125R has the heated grip kit installed but it just wasn't necessary. I could hardly feel any wind on my perpetually cold hands at all. It was quite pleasant. Meanwhile, Bigblock has his vest plugged into my bike with it cranked up and the Polly Heaters working away I honestly don't think any compromises were made concerning this bike. I really believe that Buell did a lot of testing and research over a loooong period of time and put it all to good use by giving us a most exhilarating, comfortable and functional bike. Every time I tried to go past 8.5K rpms the wheel would lift off and I'd have to back off. This bike is insane. It's frick'n nuts. It's perfect! Rocket, you have to try one of these. I don't care whether it would change your mind or not. You owe it to yourself to try one on for size I'd be willing to wager that regardless whether it changed your mind or not that you would walk away beyond the shadow of the doubt impressed. I doubt very much that seeing & feeling how everything just works perfectly within itself will win you over but I still want you to experience this bike all the same | |||
| Doerman |
Metalstorm. You should not have done that to yourself. Now you'll be driving yourself crazy trying to decide to buy one. Take it from me. Buying one does not help. Because once you have one you will want to ride it all the time. You are officially hooked. I just thought you should be aware of that. | |||
| Rex |
the rear of the v8 looks pretty cool. what is in front of the rear wheel? battery cover? more views....rex | |||
| Metalstorm |
Doerman, no problem there. It will be at least two or three years before I can afford one  Unless I win the Lotto. Did I mention that I have just VERY recently become a Lotto player? Until I have my own I will simply covet Bigblock's and steal it every chance I get. You are right about "should not have rode it". I refused a couple offers to try it in the past couple weeks thinking I can't miss something I don't know. But now I know. Oh God how I know and Oh God how I miss it Damn it. Again Rocket, I apologize for this post as it doesn't relate to the argument. I can't help it. I have been smitten, Please understand that it is no disrespect to you or your thread. | |||
| Rocketman |
I've have 1125 test rides booked (but on hold) at two dealers. When they come it's my intention to have a full day at it, and ride the XB12S, TT and Uly too. This is not meant to provoke, criticise or cause argument, so here's me. I rely heavily on engine braking in and on everything I pilot. That's just me. I loved the way the Brutale 750 revved its nuts off. I love dancing up and down the gearbox. The 750 was just so very engaging to thrash, and very intoxicating, but I couldn't help feel that pushing it much further than 140mph was rather like the sensation you get when you wind up a clockwork watch and you're in fear of over winding. I bugged out and waited for the 910 Brutale. Well, things never quite pan out the way you want. I got the over active thyroid. The thyroid eye disease too. Result, thyroidectomy. Three years of weathering a really rough illness. It's an awful thing that puts your life on hold for that time. So it was that just last summer I finally got to ride the 910. And it was a disappointment for me, despite being warp speed fast, which is what I love. Well, it was boring in many respects. You could ride it all day long in top gear from 20mph to 150+ mph and maybe more, and just steer the thing effortlessly. Sublime handling, but you never really felt you'd done much. I didn't get off it and feel like I'd rode the race of my life. My 916 will have you feel like you had though. And my S1W feels like you've raced and won a whole seasons worth if you thrash it proper for 150 miles of country lanes. So this leaves me a problem. Hence my opening comment. Erik said in his interview that the sensation of speed was not so apparent as to how fast you were really going. He also said the bike was effortless to ride at 100% 90% 80% or any percentage because of its flat torque curve. Therefore, the 1125 ride might not appeal to what I want from a bike of this type. Please, that's just me. I'm very excited to ride it, and I am, as I've said before, interested to see its styling away from other bikes and a stand at a show. But I do know its looks will never appeal to me. The next bike in my garage might be a 750 Brutale in the end. As for my S1W, it can grow old gracefully with me, and remind the world of a bygone era of lean mean streetfighting machines the likes of which we'll probably never see again as technology and engine management become ever more advanced. Rocket |
