| Author | Message | ||
     Thruster |
I got a new '08 Uly last October for 50 mi/day year-round commuting, and the muffler is already rusting badly. The top end of the front header is also beginning to rust. I know NJ winters are corrosive, but I thought the Uly was supposed to eat bad weather for lunch. Anybody know why Buell doesn't use a more durable material for their exhausts, especially on the Uly? And don't say "cost", because there are many other features of the bike where cost is clearly not the primary design parameter. Anyway, for a solution to my problem, I narrowed it down to just two choices: 1. Ceramic coat the stock headers and stock muffler (Jet-Hot marine grade base coat with flat black color coat). 2. Micron full exhaust system -- headers and can (and maybe Jet-Hot those too for good measure). Choice 1 is appealing because I actually like the way the bike performs and sounds with the stock exhaust -- very smooth across the dial, no decel pops, I can still hear myself think, and I still get friendly waves from all my neighbors, not obscene gestures. However, coating the outside of the can doesn't prevent it rusting on the inside, so I'm not sure how good a solution that is. Choice 2, on the other hand, opens a big can of worms. To really do it right, I would also need to fix up the airbox with a good filter and maybe open some holes, then I'd have to get a race ECM and be at the mercy of the dealership to spend enough dyno time to get the map right. I don't really need the extra hp (if I did, I would have gotten a different bike in the first place), and I really don't want to void the warranty on this still-young bike. Also, it just seems like too much fixing stuff that ain't broke. By the way, I specifically chose Micron because my headers are rusting already, and slip-ons would all use the stock headers. I also don't like the fact that slip-ons tend to suffer from peaks and valleys in their performance curves. Can anyone offer any recommendations? | ||
| Blake |
Avoid flat black finish on headers at all cost. The flat black will radiate heat like you won't believe. No good. | ||
| Blake |
The muffler isn't likely corroding much inside. | ||
| Blake |
Hey Thruster! Welcome to BadWeB! | ||
| Reepicheep |
The Uly will eat bad weather for breakfast fine... (it just won't wipe it's chin  ) The exhaust is incredibly durable. It will dent if you hit it hard (saving the bike, like a 4 inch thick skid plate) and get surface rust where you scratch it, but it will continue to work fine. I just pull it once every two years or so, hit it with an angle grinder with wire brush, then hit it with black BBQ paint. Its an easy job. If you want a more expensive exhaust, you should have no trouble selling your stock unit... I'm sure you will get just as much $$ as you paid for it (as a percentage of the bike). So you are not out anything, and then you can order something like a Drummer SS (if Kevin still make it). | ||
| Nautique4life |
In response to Blakes' comment. Blake, I went round and round on this myself and I second that, unfortunately. I went for pure aesthetics and had my new Micron System Ceramic coated black. I did this because the bike is black and have intentions of blacking out as much as I can. Didn't want a bright shiny header sticking out. This proved to be a bad idea. It looks good. No, It looks badass. But damn it puts off some heat. The emissivity of black compared to the "chrome" look fails drastically. The chrome look has a superior Low-E rating than the black. I am looking into sometype of heat shield or possibly applying a (heat)reflective tape to the inside of my xb frame to help cut down on the radiant heat. It's not that bad, but by the end of lengthier rides I find myself keeping my right leg out like I'm on a bagger. I think I am accurate on this. I had a couple conversations with Al about this, he warned me of going black, but I placed more value on the looks. But it you have any questions, I'm sure a lot of badwebbers are more knowledgeable on this than I am. | ||
| Spike |
The XB mufflers are becoming known for surface rust, unfortunately. Painting and ceramic coating are common fixes, but lots of guys just live with it. The surface rust is ugly, but I haven't heard of anyone actually having any sort of failure due to rust on the muffler. I thought I remembered the XB headers being stainless steel, so they shouldn't rust. I have seen some discoloration right at the head, but I think that's due to heat/dirt/etc. and not actually rust. You can see the discoloration I'm talking about in this picture of Jlnance's Ulysses:  | ||
| Blake |
That's right, just a little touch up with a scotch brite pad will restore a just as new finish on the headers. Eagle-1 polish works miracles on the finish if you'd like some added luster. | ||
| Jlnance |
 I ceramic coated the muffler. It's cheap, about $50. Looks better and cleans easier too. As to why the muffler isn't better to start with, this came up in the 1125r thread. The reason given was that since it is so common for people to replace their mufflers (it's the #1 mod,) it doesn't make sense to spend money on something that's going to get thrown away. You could argue that if it was better people wouldn't throw it away, but lots of people want a different sound, one that would be illegal for Buell to do. Personally I like quiet bikes, so I'm keeping the stock muffler. I've been very pleased with the coating. I'd love to coat the headers, but I don't have the guts to take them off the bike. It appears complex. Someone more mechanically inclined could do it. Blake, does semigloss black have a lower emissivity than flat black? | ||
| Thruster |
Thanks for the warm welcome Blake, and everyone for all the helpful thoughts. The Warranty Specialist at my HD-B dealer sent photos of my rusty muffler to BMC for evaluation. It may be a legitimate warranty claim, as there are some signs it was a bad prep and paint job (odd-shaped rusty areas, and bright smooth shiny silver metal exposed where dime-sized pieces of paint flaked off). He said if they agree it's a warranty issue, they'd give me a choice of replacement stock can or credit towards the purchase of an aftermarket can. I asked if the bike's warranty would be voided if I chose to put on a Micron system plus the complementary improvements to the air intake and map tweaking on the dyno (oops -- I forgot to ask about the race ECM), and he said no, the warranty would remain valid (dealer to do all the work). I am therefore leaning in the direction of the Micron, as opposed to coating the stock parts, since this seems like an opportunity to bring out more of the bike's full potential. Good advice John, I'll Jet-Hot my Micron pipes and can shiny silver, atop the corrosion-resistant marine-grade base coat, instead of black. Why coat them at all? Because I'm a debugger by trade, and if something isn't supposed to happen, it is almost inevitable that it will happen to me. If people say stainless steel isn't supposed to rust, it'll rust for me. I'm still surprised Buell doesn't ceramic-coat their stock exhausts, if not make them from more durable materials. I really don't think cost is the issue, as coating is not expensive. The stock muffler performs so much to my liking, I'd not even be thinking about ditching it if it wasn't rusting. Thanks for the nice pic of a coating job well-done, Jim. I might still flip-flop back to coating my stock pipes and can, depending on the continued great feedback here. | ||
| Thruster |
John, Check out thermotec.com for shielding stuff -- I just ran across it while looking for other things. | ||
| Bombardier |
Ceramic is included on the 08 Firebolt range as standard | ||
| Nautique4life |
I checked ThermoTec out. I am going to purchase some of the adhesive backed heat barrier to apply under frame. Hopefully this will help eliminate radiant heat transfer from header to frame, and subsequently frame to leg. | ||
| Jlnance |
Ceramic is included on the 08 Firebolt range as standard Really? Will those parts fit on a Uly? | ||
| Bombardier |
Odie at Spec Ops produces heat blankets to stop the thigh burn issue. I do not know about your model but the heat comes from the exhaust/cylinder head and exits from between the seat and the frame. I think on yours it will also come from the gap between the seat brace and frame. | ||
| Bombardier |
Dont know about the Bolt to Uly swap. Others may be able to help you there. | ||
| Andrejs2112 |
Who do you guy's recommend for ceramic coatings? | ||
| Bombardier |
High Performance Coatings (HPC) have a good name here in Australia and over in the states too I am told. | ||
| Thruster |
I'll try jet-hot.com for coating my headers and can, whether I end up choosing to fix up my stock system or just get the Micron (I'm still undecided). I like that they offer a variety of coatings for different uses, and when I called for info, the tech was knowledgeable and polite. When I said I need the anti-corrosive marine-grade coating but don't like the gold color, he said no problem, since the coating is in two layers anyway: the protective base coat, then the color coat on top. They'd just put shiny silver or whatever other color I like on top of the marine base coat, even though the combination might not be among their standard offerings. | ||
| Thruster |
I just spoke with Al at americansportbike.com and have the following to add to the above: Al uses jet-hot.com for the coated stock headers he sells, Sterling finish (black offered but makes your leg hotter). He runs a header core exchange program, so you can first obtain coated stock headers from him, then send back your old ones for refund. Al will not accept bad header cores, so the quality of the coated stock headers he sells is assured. There is no BMC (Buell Motorcycle Company) race ECM for the 08 Uly yet, and we don't know what the plans are for one, if any. The Direct Link software does not talk to the 08 stock ECM yet. A new version does, Al has it (beta tester), but it is not being sold yet. The stock ECM appears to have a bit that enables detection of exhaust valve functioning and another bit that enables actuation of the valve. It appears that manipulation of these bits will allow valve deactivation so that the engine check light does not come on with aftermarket mufflers. Once proven reliable, this mod will be able to be set together with the new map and will thus render valve simulation unnecessary. Dealer assurances that aftermarket exhausts, air intake mods, and ECM maps will not void the engine warranty should probably not be relied upon, as the final arbiter of warranty claims is BMC, not the Harley Davidson - Buell dealership. Coated headers will typically last the life of the bike, as they are coated inside and out. Some discoloration (loss of gloss and some greying of the color coat) at the top end of the header where it is hottest can occur, but the integrity of the coating (especially of the protective base coat) is not compromised. Thus, the pain of swapping in the coated headers needs to be paid only once. If my (coated) stock muffler rusts out in a few years, it'd be easy enough for me to obtain a replacement stock muffler, get it coated, and mount it myself. Marine grade coating of headers by jet-hot.com is probably overkill and unnecessary. Al does not run a stock muffler coating core exchange program. Since I'll be sending out my stock muffler for coating myself, I can choose whatever coating I like, which for me is going to be the jet-hot marine-grade base coat with shiny silver color coat. I figure the muffler will be more exposed to salt spray and other corrosive stuff than the headers. Shiny silver coating on the headers and muffler helps make more heat get blown out the tailpipe instead of radiating through the bodies of the header pipes and muffler (my own conclusion based on other things discussed). Short trips in cold weather cause condensation to collect inside the muffler and cause rust. Take longer trips to let the can heat up so it can dry out more thoroughly. Al will be creating a map for the stock ECM for the 08 Uly with Micron exhaust over the coming months. With this added info, I am now leaning back in the direction of coating my stock parts instead of doing the Micron job. Thanks and kudos to Al for giving me honest info instead of pushing to sell me an expensive system. | ||
| Thruster |
Hearing that the warranty specialist at BMC told me that the stock headers are not stainless, Al looked into it and confirmed that indeed they are made from stainless steel. They are coated with some kind of gold-tone material that discolors somewhat, especially at the top where the pipes get hottest (where mine appear to have developed a "rust rash" of sorts). I sent him pictures, to which he replied, "That surface discoloration is nothing to be concerned about. It looks like hell, but it won't cause pitting or rust through or deep scale or anything like that." Al did acknowledge that stainless steel can eventually show some rust, so I guess it's still probably a good idea to coat the headers, if one can afford (or perform) the labor. | ||
| Bombardier |
Ditto on the rusting on stainless Thruster. 84 BMW with full stainless system has started to corrode in patches mostly about 1 foot from the engine. | ||
| Jlnance |
Thruster, just a FYI on the HPC/Jethot warranty for exhaust coatings:
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