| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketman |
I thought I might be safe in a thread titled "1125R vs GSX-R1000". I have to vote for the GSXR1000 in this fight. If you're ever in the company of those that own, or have owned them, it takes but a second to realise the GSXR1000 is a cult motorcycle for all the reasons it exists. As the title of this thread invites opinion, why should I be singled out again as the bad guy simply because I understand the reality of the comparison? Let's be honest. If as the thread suggest, we are comparing both bikes, then we must be doing so by taking the GSXR1000 as the benchmark or criteria that the 1125 has to challenge. That is to say, we are all aware of exactly what the GSXR1000 is, so we can't be saying is the 1125 a better bike because it's not practical to tour Europe on a GSXR1000 but the 1125 might be practical enough to do so. The thread therefore blatantly offers the 1125 as a sports bike. As such whoever believes there's a contest in there somewhere, well they must be dreaming. The GSXR1000 smokes it. If this upsets some so much, then remove the entire thread as it's in danger of at least one person with a brain speaking the truth. Truth hurts, right? Rocket | ||
| Elvis |
7 months ago it would have been ridiculous to even suggest a Buell could match up against a GSX-R or 1098. Buell may not be able to make any grand claims yet, but they sure did make a jump with the 1125R, and I don't think anyone could argue that point. It will be interesting to see where they are 7 months from now. . . or a year . . . or two. If I had to comment objectively, I'd say "no" Buell can't currently compete with Suzuki or Ducati in terms of a full-on, out of the box racer (because that's not what the 1125R is) . . . but Buell is only a few components away at this point. I have no doubt that Buell could sell a serious race version of the 1125R with full fairing, chain drive, ECU etc. that could compete with the best out there and list for $15-$20K. It's just a matter of them choosing to do that. It's no longer a matter of them not having an engine that can run with the best. | ||
| Dtx |
The GSX-R 1000 is NOT a cult motorcycle in my book. Its just another cookie cutter liter bike. I think of something like a V-Max when you mention a "cult" motorcycle. | ||
| Doughnut |
A STREET BIKEthat can compete against a superbike. Think about it. I personaly think that it is wonderful. | ||
| M2nc |
I finally got to see the 1125R up close and personal today. I liked a lot of it and had one critique as a manufacturer. One thing that really blew me away was how comfortable the bike was. This is an all day rider. Now I loved the thought of the earlier Fireblades with focus on street-able mid-range over top end. I looked at one up close and personal too. It was not comfortable. I quickly switch to the GSX-R750 as my favorite sport bike because it was more comfortable than the tight Honda. I dig the CBR-1000RR's new styling. I suspect I will be alone though since Honda like Buell pushed the envelope on the new bike. That said let me answer Mr. Trojan on a few things. First I am referring to stock Street bike comparison not WSB - AMA SB or GP rendition. I want a street bike. Second - Racing exhaust adds around 10% more horsepower. Look at Ducati's claims of 20hp increase in HP with the race can on their new and awesome V4 sport bike. Read the XB exhaust shoot out where 84rwhp stock XB were hitting over 100rwhp with can and ecm added. So add 10% with a can which on a 150rwhp Honda as of the last Master bike test, means that Honda was somewhere near 165rwhp. Three - Adding better than stock suspenders reduces lap time. If they didn't why go through the trouble of changing them out. If you tracked some of the XBRR exploits over the last two years most upgraded the suspenders too with some excellent results. So this "STOCK" Honda with 165rwhp and better than stock suspension against a Buell with a 20rwhp restriction at 118rwhp with stock everything else including gear limiting top end on those long straights. You would close 45+rwhp gap to more like 10-15rwhp less than a stock Honda or an overall 30rwhp gain for the Buell. Lose 1-2 seconds with suspension upgrades to the Honda. Add 10-15mph for the Buell with taller gearing on those long straits and yes! This resent tire test shows the Buell should be able to compete with other liter class sport bikes on the track. As for the Track and the bikes. Rocket makes it seem that I am talking about a Battle Traks competition in a parking lot when in reality I am talking about major international road courses like Jerez. Here at Daytona the GSX-R1000 bested the Honda by 3 seconds. Last year stock bike to stock bike the Honda bested the Suzuki in Jerez, Spain. During that test the GSX-R750 ran lap times within a second of the CBR-1000RR and withing two-tenths of a second of the GSX-R1000. The GSX-R750 is the closest bike by specs to the 1125R. A bike which weight and peak power are about equal to the 1125R. Add the fact that the Buell has power where the GSX-R does not, and yes the 1125R can compete. I know some of us are Buell faithful, but some of you are doubting Thomas. So time will tell who is right. I just know the 1125R is the most comfortable Superbike out there. On the Street I believe the 1125R will shine and on the track it will compete heads up. So until then we will have to hear the Internet clatter. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Anyone who thinks that a 140RWHP V-2 bike cannot compete with a 160RWHP IL4 bike, street (especially) or track is greatly mistaken ! IL4s spin a lot and cannot use their HP advantage, over the "big-bang" V-2. The IL4 riders just cannot use the extra HP. Rocket, in your opinion the 1125R is looking ugly because the radiators are at the side, and are protected against small crashes. Actually this is a great idea, since the center-of-gravity and the balance of the bike are improved, while there is some protection for the radiators(unlike Honda SP1 ). What is wrong with that ? Since you have an engineering background would should appreciate this feature more than the aesthetics. I really like this solution for the radiators, and I really like the looks of the 1125R. KTM ? I wonder why some people are convienced that the RC8 will outperform the 1125R. So far KTM had no street bike to match the XB in handling ! | ||
| Blake |
"The GSXR1000 smokes it. " And you know this how? Or are you just talking in peak HP and not considering handling, or power delivery? | ||
| Blake |
Still avoiding the wager? I think that speaks all too clearly for the truth of the matter. Bullshit walks. Carlos, Great post! | ||
| Blake |
Hey Sean,
The above from BadWeBr Darkice19 with some editing for clarity. (Message edited by blake on December 15, 2007) | ||
| Zac4mac |
heheheh And that's new, wait till they're "Broke in" Going to pick mine up in a few hours. Thought I'd be able to sleep better, now that it's in, but it's not in the garage yet. Have to install the heated grip kit, tour seat, tank bra and get pictures and wire lengths for Robert at XB Lights to build the LED Taillight. If it warms up enough, I may try to duck-walk it thru the snow/ice in my neighborhood out to the highway. Main roads are clear and dry, secondaries are a mess. Next week promises excellent weather... for December. Aaaccck just checked the temp, -1˚F...c'mon sun warm us up! Z | ||
| Rocketman |
The GSX-R 1000 is NOT a cult motorcycle in my book. Its just another cookie cutter liter bike. I think of something like a V-Max when you mention a "cult" motorcycle. In the UK, the word mecca of sportsbikes, the GSXR1000 is king. There is no argument. A STREET BIKEthat can compete against a superbike. Think about it. I personaly think that it is wonderful. A lot of people around here need to realise something. A GSXR1000 is a streetbike, as are all other superbikes. You guys talk of the 1125, for example, being a great sportsbike because it's comfortable. That's because most every American sale it makes will be to owners who won't ride it like a sportsbike very often. Over here our roads are all about sports biking. You buy a sports bike in the UK and you already made up your mind you're going to treat it like one most often. So over here, a sports bike is a street bike. Rocket, in your opinion the 1125R is looking ugly because the radiators are at the side, and are protected against small crashes. Actually this is a great idea, since the center-of-gravity and the balance of the bike are improved, while there is some protection for the radiators(unlike Honda SP1 ). What is wrong with that ? Buell have been forced to design a way of getting around the ergonomics of the XB frame design. Finding space in such a short wheelbase with such steep steering angle left little space for radiators. The design is a compromise over a more conventional and suitable way. And you know this how? Or are you just talking in peak HP and not considering handling, or power delivery? Of course I know this. A GSXR 1000 would do it on the back wheel in no more than three gears. A blind man would tell you likewise. Still avoiding the wager? I think that speaks all too clearly for the truth of the matter. Bullshit walks. I believe I offered a compromise as I'm shit on the track. I'm sure we could get you a 1125 over here to play with, and I know several friends with GSXR1000's. So no problem me getting my hands on one. I'll let you ride the road enough times until you know it well enough to race. Deal? Hey Sean -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ quote: A friend of mine has a stock 2006 Yamaha R1, and its pretty quick. I smoked him with my 1125R. He isn't a noob; he knows how to race............................................Wh en I passed him, he panicked and downshifted for more power................ He knows how to race . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . and an 1125 passed him on the straights and the guy who knows how to race panicked?????? Was the friend on the R1 stuck in third when he panicked? Don't make me laugh, puleeeze  I rest my case. Rocket | ||
| Rich |
Man, no mention of the ZX10? If I had one, I'd feel slighted.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
While its stupid on the street, I wonder if the point at which the HP really helps the traditional hyperbike (150 mph and climbing), that the Buell starts to spank them with aerodynamics. I'm thinking in this case of a particular Buell at Bonneville with great aerodynamics and 200 RWHP outrunning a Hayabusa with 300+ RWHP. Remember, horsepower has to increase exponentially with speed. So if you can win the speed / drag contest with a linear solution (like better aerodynamics) while your competitor is trying to beat it with an exponentially expensive solution (like adding horsepower), it will look like a dead heat (or even a loss) for the first 1/3, and you will crush them for the last two thirds. So between the "area under the curve" of a twin with a flat torque curve to help you get up to 100 helping you, and the aerodynamics up top, it might end up a lot closer then people expect. I havent ridden a GSXR1000, but i have ridden an 1125R, and I have a GPS log showing me doing 174 mph on the back straight at Mid Ohio. The GPS was clearly getting some measurement error, but you can look at the points and see it could not have been *that* much, so I was doing at least 150... and I don't believe I ever touched top gear all day long, nor was I ever touching the rev limiter. | ||
| M2nc |
and an 1125 passed him on the straights and the guy who knows how to race panicked?????? I think this is where we speculating Internet warriors are missing the boat. What I am saying is the spec sheet of the 1125R puts in the neighborhood of all other liter bikes out there. There are a lot of riders that have done a track day. I haven't but have dusted some that have. Different people have either different abilities or different willingness especially on the street to push a bike. Ferris proved that to me more than anyone. I was with a passenger so I was not willing to push my Uly and he on a Road King was waiting on me. Then again one weekend up in Suches I left an R1, pushed a GSX-R750 and passed a ZX-9R on the M2. On another ride, three of us, one on an CBR600RR, SV650S and I on the Uly left guys on GSX-R1000 and GSX-R1300. I started that ride in the rear of the pack. The guys on the Suzukis both waved me by. Even though they were pulling me on every straight, I would catching them fast after a couple of tight turns. How? This is Sport riding on the street. Even though the Suzukis could left me standing after 100 mph, we were not running that fast most of the time. We were focused on roads with tight curves that could be enjoyed at double digit speeds. In this real world arena, the 1125R will shine because where the bike makes power. The reason the guy on the Gixxer 1000 was in the back of the back was because that power rush took him by surprise on an earlier ride and he looped it. That is also why the very experienced and half crazy rider of the CBR600RR said he was not interest in a liter bike. He stated it best. Liter bikes are great for the track and unnecessary for the street. In the real world the 1125R will frustrate many liter class riders and they will never understand why. Flat power curves rule at slower speeds. Power delivery is more confident inspiring and will let the rider relax and enjoy the ride. The Uly is one of the funnest motorcycles out there because you can push it, its predictable and comfortable. If the 1125R is a magnification of that fun, it will be a shame that many spec sheet queens will never try the Buell. Their loss. | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
Why don't all of you that have your panties in a wad just wait for the magazines to do a shoot-out. You know they will....... Stats are stats, best to just take your piece of paper and use it as fire starter.... let the real results end all of this crap.... on the road.  | ||
| Jlnance |
I was with a passenger so I was not willing to push my Uly My visor fogged ;) | ||
| Bearly |
I picked up a BRITISH Mag the other day called FAST Bikes. They picked the Super Duke OVER the GSXR1000. Interesting? (two more blows on the horse, sorry) | ||
| Dynasport |
You guys should have seen me passing all those GSXRs on the Dragon this year with me on my Harley. Not really, but is sounds good on the internet. | ||
| Socoken |
If only R1DynaSquid was here to weigh in on this one... | ||
| Blake |
Sean, You are mistakenly referring to the toungue in cheek challenge that I made to you concerning Daytona. But as to your counter challenge, I don't race on open public roads on account of doing so is really unbelievably stupid. But I was not referring to that challenge. I was and am referring to the actual wager that I proposed. Here it is again: Sean, I'll agree to whatever wager you care to step up to dear friend, in defense of your assertion poo-pooing the idea that Buell 1125R motorcycles or a derivative will indeed be "taking the performance fight" to the Ducati 1098. Whatever sum you care to wager is fine by me, just name it. Bullshit walks as we say. Is that a clucking noise I hear emanating from old York? Further to your recent post above, I did not ask if you think that you know which machine is quicker round the streets or track; I asked you "how can you know". Of course the answer is that in fact you cannot know. You have no way of knowing. You've never even ridden a late model Buell motorcycle. You are simply making stuff up based upon your own personal biases, the same silly naysaying biases that lead you to conclude likewise that no Buell 1125R-based bike will ever challenge a Ducati 1098 or the KTM or probably any other comparable liter-class sport bike. As your friend I strongly suggest that you suck it up now and admit ignorance else you shall surely suffer humiliation in the not too distant future. Didn't the Ducati 999 garner the fastest lap at Masterbike a few years back, that despite being down by around 20 peak HP compared to the IL4 competition? In addition to peak HP and top speed, tractibility, power-band characteristics, aerodynamics, and handling apparently matter, a lot! We don't ride our sport bikes like sport bikes over here in America? LOL! What an unbelievably ignorant statement. The world is rife with big mouth racer-wannabe street riders who think they are adept at riding fast, but who in truth are not fast at all. Too many such riders confuse the sensation of fear when pushing their limits with being fast. They think that since they are pushing hard near thier limits and getting fearful of crashing that they must be going fast. They aren't. Get a grip on reality brick boy of kitter-litter land. You are slow. You don't know fast. You're so slow, you should change your BadWeB name to "Likewatchinggrassgrowman." You're not qualified to comment on fast or even be in the same room as fast. So hush-up and just enjoy the sport and have fun going slow. There's no need to pretend that you are some kind of back-road hero in order to impress us. Me? I too am WAY slow, just not as slow as you, and I'm not afraid of riding on race tracks. Did I mention that you are slow? Cluck-cluck?  | ||
| Blake |
"Why don't all of you that have your panties in a wad just wait for the magazines to do a shoot-out. You know they will....... Stats are stats, best to just take your piece of paper and use it as fire starter.... let the real results end all of this crap.... on the road." Firstly, please cease fantasizing about our panties.  Secondly, what do you want, we should shut down the discussion board? | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
Did I every speculate about shutting down the discussion board? There is no way anyone can make a conclusion based on stats... as YOU have stated in your own comments. It's one thing to compare bikes in a relative manner, it's another to sling sh*$ around saying a duc is the fastest, or an R1 is, or any other bike for that matter. The fact is, unless you've had a very unique opportunity to ride all the bikes in question, you cannot give us a constructive opinion on which would be better and why. I say leave it to the professionals who make $$ for a living talking about this stuff. I'm all for hearing about personal opinions, but then again there is no way someone can draw a conclusion based on the facts that are before us. Let these bikes go at it, and let the best one win. I really don't give a crap who ends out on top, or who takes last. I like Buells for what they are, not because they finish on a podium or are "said" to beat a different brand. | ||
| Rocketman |
I've thrashed the tits off a 1098S for a full afternoon. 175 MPH will not ruffle its feathers. I hear figures of 185 MPH though I remain sceptical. It will absolutely launch itself beyond 150 MPH probably as fast, if not faster than any current superbike out there. That's my hands on experience. I haven't ridden an 1125R. You've rode neither. Therefore I know more than you. On that basis I'll donate $100 to the air fence fund if you can prove beyond reason that an 1125R is going to take the fight to a 1098. I notice however you didn't say 1098S. No worries. Taking the fight means what exactly? Please clarify what you'd like it to mean, and I'll take the wager regardless. Ok that's done. as to your counter challenge, I don't race on open public roads on account of doing so is really unbelievably stupid Don't get all sensible on me. We're talking very fast street motorcycles here. Where better to thrash them to their limits? I'm all for unlimited speed limits on the open road. Bring it on! Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Step aside GSXR gods. Place your orders fast for the 1125R. This dark horse is about to storm the motorcycling world. The benchmark is to be lifted beyond that of all who've gone before. All hail the king, the Buell 1125R. Unless I'm talking utter twaddle of course. Suzuki has never made a bad GSX-R1000, and they still haven’t. Their flagship superbike always leads the class, never follows, and the new GSX-R1000K7 is no different. Not only does it have more power than ever before – up 7bhp to 185bhp - it’s now even to handle than ever. The user-friendly nature of the Suzuki GSX-R1000 was always its best asset, and now thanks to a three way power switch you can choose how much power you need depending on the conditions. On full-power ‘default mode’ the low rpm power on the Suzuki GSX-R1000 has been softened to allow for more absolute power at top revs (maximum power is now made 1000rpm higher in the revs at 12,000rpm), which means the GSX-R1000K7 is missing some of the instant, neck snapping power it was able to dish out at walking speeds. No mater because this makes the Suzuki GSX-R1000K7 more docile when squeezing on the gas exiting corners, which is good. There’s still an ocean of mid-range torque ready for you when you open the taps, enough to seriously embarrass its revvy rivals – and of course a whole heap of howling power at high rpm. The power delivery and throttle response of the latest Suzuki GSX-R1000 is smooth and polished beyond belief. A longer wheelbase makes for fewer wheelies coming out of slow corners on track, which will please the racers. Forks are a huge improvement on the under-damped units on the Suzuki GSX-R1000K5/K6, and like the rear shock has high and low speed compression damping. But with the extra adjustment on offer there’s more scope for mucking up the handling, making the GSX-R1000K7 slow steering and twitchy on the bumps. Dial in the right settings and it’s pure stable, confidence-inspiring Suzuki GSX-R1000. The Suzuki GSX-R1000K7 has every toy in the superbike book: electronically-controlled steering damper, slipper clutch, fully adjustable suspension, radial brakes and master cylinder and adjustable pegs. The ‘piece de resistance’ is the three-way power switch. Mode ‘A’ is full power, ‘B’ softens the power up to the 9000rpm-mark, then ‘releases’ to give full power at full throttle. ‘C’ cuts power at low revs and practically cuts power completely after 8000rpm, turning the Suzuki GSX-R1000 into a Suzuki SV650. Although Suzuki GSX-R1000s tend to be bullet-proof mechanically and can stand tens of thousands of miles of hard use, the finish isn’t quite as good as the competition. The paintwork on the panels and engine casings is thin and the GSX-R1000K7’s new twin pipes look particularly cheap – although Suzuki is probably assuming people will get rid of them anyway in favour of replacement cans. To be able to get this much technology and easy to use performance for less than nine grand is staggering. If it’s anything like the GSX-R1000K5/K6 model you’ll be ale to use it for commuting, touring, track days and with very little modification even go racing (and be competitive) on it too – quite a feat. Rocket the only rational motorcycling mind left on BadWeB | ||
| Spatten1 |
Sean, If you think England has better sportbike roads than the US, you need to get out of your village, or hamlet, or whatever you call it and see the world a bit. | ||
| Jammin_joules |
time was guys settled this kinda attitude on the line or on the track being too new and too unavailable and most regions of the US froze over, that will take a while to happen but I hope it does soon, my eyes tire from reading the rants, flames, and claims | ||
| Spatten1 |
time was guys settled this kinda attitude on the line or on the track Must have been before ZZ Top recorded Manic Mechanic in the 70's. SOS, different forum. | ||
| Rocketman |
My point is, here in the UK you are never more than 62 miles from the sea. That is to say, you are never far from perfect riding roads. We seldom do straight lines. Not even on our Motorways. Accordingly our riding choices and tastes are very much focused on our landscape. America has many variations of landscape across a vast continent. Not everyone buying an 1125 in its home market is close to the ideal road. Partly why Buell have focused a lot on rider comfort right? "Built from the rider down" I believe is the marketing mans idea of catchy sales blurb. Sometimes it's a long road traveled before you guys find a canyon to play in. Like most other Brit's, I need only ride 5 miles out of town and every A and B road around is another TT course in the making. Horses for courses. Rocket | ||
| Spatten1 |
America has many variations of landscape across a vast continent. Not everyone buying an 1125 in its home market is close to the ideal road. This is true. I quit riding on the street when I lived in Houston, just rode my YSR at the track. I hate straight flat roads. In the Rockies, Sierras, or nearly anywhere on the West Coast you have endless mountain roads through public land with no stop signs, driveways, etc. It is hard to remember how dangerous the rocks, guardrails, and cliffs are. I stayed with a guy that works for Triumph at his place south of Birmingham about 10 years ago. He showed me all the local places the sportbikers tend to die and get crippled due to old walls or bridges, etc. Lots of ZZR's (I think that is what the Ninjas were called then) in England in the late 90's. Lots of VFRs everywhere I went in Europe. Great bike watching, especially in Spain (hopped up 2-strokes everywhere back then). Never made it to Italy, but I'm sure that is an impressive bike culture too. | ||
| M1combat |
Best road on the planet. <--- Notice the period http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=33.052558,-109. 324951&spn=0.515671,0.929718&t=p&z=11&om=1 Start at Morenci and follow the 191 N. FTW. A conclusion as to the relative speed of two different bikes can not be drawn based off of street racing. Street racing only determines who has the largest sack. I don't care who's sack is largest. I'm interested in the relative performance on a racetrack. I don't mind comparing an 1125R to a 1098S. I just think that both should get a pipe and a tune. If the Buell doesn't get that then it has to be compared to a base model 1098. We'll see soon I think. I got my copy of RRW this week... One of the cover storys is titled "AERODYNAMICS: The Next Revolution?" I think so. (Buell Racing has a great spread on Pages 24-25 too BTW ) (Message edited by m1combat on December 15, 2007) (Message edited by m1combat on December 15, 2007) |
