| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Well, not to sound like a "Rossi Hyper Fan," but you ARE talking about a Bridgestone-shod Yamaha piloted by Rossi vs. Michelin-shod Yamahas piloted by "everybody else" here. Not REALLY a fair comparison (though Lorenzo was certainly impressive at the last test, coming in behind only the two Repsol Hondas). | ||
| Rocketman |
You are not happy because Rossi did not win the title. I didn't say that Vag. You're not going all Greek on me again are you, lol? Anyway, I'm not happy because the rider that won had a huge advantage over every other rider on the grid. That advantage won the title in my opinion. Had Rossi have had that same advantage Stoner had, I'd have been even more unhappy given Rossi's superior talent. You were not happy last year as well, because Hayden got the title.... I was happy that Hayden got the title, though I am not fond of a consistent point scoring effort winning any title. I prefer to see race winners winning titles. You are a typical Rossi-fan, unless Rossi wins the racing&season is not worth it! I'm not anyone's fan actually. But it's hard not to like Rossi as a personality and as an ambassador for the sport. It's even harder to ignore Rossi's talent as that of the greatest if you are able to watch each racer individually without being biased as a fan towards one in particular. Rocket | ||
| Vagelis46 |
This debate is really good...... "The M1 has been the slowest bike at every speed trap all season, and everyone that has tested it compared to the other bikes has said it isn't as good. How much proof do you need?" But so far, for most people & Rossi-fans, it was Michelin's fault that Rossi was not winning. Now it seems that we got to the : "It was Yamaha's fault". So next year's excuse is ready..... For me, I think that M1 was so slow this year, that it was impossible for Rossi to win ! But I have some interesting questions for Rossi-fans : Is it possible that Rossi (like Capirex, and maybe Melandri) cannot ride a peaky 800cc, that has some extra HP at the top end ?? Is it possible that Rossi (&others)needs the "linear" power delivery of a "big-bang" engine to go fast on an 800cc ?? Can Rossi go fast on a "screamer" engine or not ?? Was a "big-bang" M1 his choice, and then the team & Rossi realised that he needed the extra HP to win? I guess that for Yamaha to change from "big-bang" to a "screamer" firing order to get some extra HP was very-very easy ! So why they did not do it ? Why they chose to try "big-bang" and pneumatic valves to get extra revs and HP ? Was it Rossi's ina-ability to ride a screamer engine ?? Tought questions, right ?? Capirex (100% certain)and Melandri (so far) found the "screamer" Ducati impossible to ride fast consistently. Capirex asked for a more linear power output, mid-season. Melandri is over 1.6s slower than Stoner. Stoner was using less electronics than Capirex last year.......I still remember him sliding and drifting in Malaisia........ Next season it will be very interesting......... Doohan was the only rider of his time, able to "master" a 500cc "screamer" engine ??? Is this ability an Aussie thing ???? Get well soon Casey... I am sure Andriana will take good care of him. The Ducatisti are looking forward to the January tests..... | ||
| Rocketman |
Tought questions, right ?? Actually, that's probably the easiest question one could answer. Rossi is the master on any bike he has ridden that we have seen in the GP arena. What the heck are you watching Vag? If Rossi had been on Bridgestone this past season, he'd very likely be World Champion today. I think your disliking of Rossi has you taking your eye off him. You need to stop concentrating on bolstering up other riders, because clearly you're missing the talents of a genius at play. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Valentino Rossi has again slammed the growing influence of electronics in MotoGP, renewing his fears rider skill is playing less and less of a pivotal role in the premier class. Rossi has been highly critical of rider aids and believes they are now too important and the difference a rider can make using his talent alone has been crucially reduced with a wave of new technology sweeping into MotoGP. The Fiat Yamaha rider has called for a ban or reduction on the amount of electronics used in MotoGP, with systems like traction control becoming so sophisticated that older generation riders are finding it harder to master riding with so much non-human input. Valentino Rossi said: “Casey (Stoner) has done an amazing job and without doubt he is a great rider. But he is the first of the traction control generation because the way he uses traction control is amazing. “For old generation riders like me, Marco Melandri and Loris Capirossi we have a lot of problems to understand. You have to be brave to use the systems. “It is difficult sometimes to have confidence in a system because that system is not human. “As an old generation rider, when the engineers come to you and say you can open the throttle full when you’re knee is on the ground at 150ks in the middle of the corner, it is easy to say this from the pits. “It is different on the bike and that is the main problem for the old generation guys. Casey believes in the system and we don’t,” added Rossi. Rocket | ||
| Trojan |
I predict that for 2009 MotoGP will ban electronic aids in the same way that F1 has now done. Electronic aids add nothing to the spectator experience, in fact exactly the opposite. It is also widely acknowledged (not just by Rossi) that rider skill is becoming less of a factor as the electronics take over. It will soon be that the only reason the rider is there at all is to keep the bike upright, and even then this is now possible to achieve using technology if they wanted to. Speak to any of the current racers (except maybe Stoner as he has benefitted most)and they almost all prefer to have more rider input and less electronic help. Bring back the tyre smoking, rear wheel steering, rip snorting beasts that will bite the rider back if they get it wrong and get rid of the sanitised for TV 800 namby pamby racers. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
OK, so there is another excuse already made for Rossi and the '08 season : Traction control and electronics ! But the question is : Was Casey using more or less electronic aids than Capirossi, and Melandi ?? Is it his riding style (similar to 2-stroke 500cc, rather than 250cc) that helps him to use the maximum from a "screamer" engine ?? Why Canepa's (rookie) time was closer to Melandri's than Melandri's time to Stoner's ?? Canepa had his first official test on a GP bike, GP tires, GP electronics, etc....and still he did lap-times close to Melandri's! Is Rossi overestimating himself ? Is he used to easy wins ?? I guess now Rossi wants a battle between : "old school" italian riders vs Casey Stoner. Lets go back to the '06 season : Last race in Spain of the 06' season to decide the title, a racetrack that Rossi likes, Rossi has a +1 point advantage over Hayden, Rossi blows it, he cannot handle the pressure and crashes.......So whose fault was that ?? Who can Rossi blame for this ?? Any excusses ?? Rocket, I think you are an electronics fan. You said that you want to see the latest technology in GP. Or is it as long as Rossi wins ?? I would like electronics to be banned from motorcycle racing. If it takes Rossi to start "bitching" about electronics, so that they get banned, so be it..... | ||
| Rocketman |
Bring back the tyre smoking, rear wheel steering, rip snorting beasts that will bite the rider back if they get it wrong and get rid of the sanitised for TV 800 namby pamby racers. Matt, I love it when you lose your temper, lol! Vag, I'm a fan of electronics? Don't know where you interpreted that from. I don't know where you've got this Rossi screamer engine thing from either. Can you explain? If you'd have read the tests on the GP bikes by MCN you might understand a little more about how the bikes are performing differently for each team / rider. In Rossi's case the Yamaha is a wheelie monster, even with the electronics package, off the corner in second and third. This requires Rossi short shift off the corners, which costs him time on an already slower than the rest bike. Understand that and it goes a long way to see just how much Rossi rides the wheels off the Yamaha to get as far up as he does. I'm all for doing away with electronics. I've never liked them on two or in four wheeled GP racing. I want to see the best rider win, not the best electronics package, like Ducati had this year thanks to the help and assistance of Ferrari via Magnetti Marelli. Rocket | ||
| Trojan |
Is Rossi overestimating himself ? Is he used to easy wins ?? The only reason Rossi has enjoyed 'easy' wins is because he has made them look easy. If you want to look back into history then you will see he has also won a lot of hard fought races along the way too. He has also won on 125,250,500,990 and 800 bikes (the ONLY rider to have done so I beleive), so I don't think that a mere change in electronics will be enough to make him an 'also ran' overnight. Rossi will adapt to whatever the rules dictate and still run at the front fighting for wins and championships. I wonder if the same could be true of certain other riders if the electronics were taken away? | ||
| Jaimec |
We already know Americans Kurtis Roberts and Nicky Hayden run faster without the electronics. I believe Italian Loris Capirossi did as well. | ||
| Blake |
From MotoGP.com... Arrivals and departures: Entry list fallout | ||
| Blake |
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| Rocketman |
with 2006 titlist Nicky Hayden reverting to 69 Is that a typo, I wonder? Rocket | ||
| Jaimec |
Why would you think that? http://www.tfd.com/titlist | ||
| Rocketman |
Because I'm observant. titlist Rocket | ||
| Jaimec |
As the winner of the 2006 MotoGP championship, that makes Nicky Hayden the 2006 titlist: ti.tlist: n. The holder of a competitive title; a champion. If Nicky Hayden was NOT the 2006 titlist, then who do you suppose was?? Or is "titlist" an "American" word as opposed to an "English" word? (Message edited by jaimec on December 15, 2007) | ||
| Jackbequick |
I think Sean is trying to ask if "titlist", as used there, was a typo for "titless" (i.e., without tits). But I'm open to correction if I missed his meaning too. It is a little obscure. Jack | ||
| Jaimec |
That would be strange then. Every single person on the MotoGP roster would be titless! | ||
| Jackbequick |
You're probably right, I was sort of clutching at straws as to where the typo would be, like looking for a word puzzle or something. I was thinking that it was misread as "titless" it would mean useless or ineffective or something like that and thought maybe that was the point in view of Hayden's not having a very good year. Jack | ||
| Rocketman |
Oh my apologies. Over here calling someone a 'tit' is a pretty common somewhat mild insult. 'Tit list' would imply somebody had put a number of 'tits' together and formed a list. Suffice to say, being on a 'titlist' or 'tit list' would not be a very flattering list to be on. Rocket | ||
| Jackbequick |
Well there you go, right out of the horse's mouth. And I guessed more or less right. I figured since it involved an American, it was intended to impart some measure of ridicule or insult. Jack | ||
| Jaimec |
That darned language barrier again... | ||
| Trojan |
In 'proper' English that would be titleist of course, although in proper English one would never use such a vulgar word at all, and one would always use much more descriptive words and phrases such as 'defeated ex-champion', 'loser' or 'who?' ;) ;) | ||
| Jaimec |
Odd, but that article did not come from an American site... it came from a European site! | ||
| Davegess |
The American Heritage dictionary says that TITLIST is the holder of a competitive title while TITLEIST is a golf ball. Just another case of those pest British not being able to speak the President's English ;) | ||
| Rocketman |
And I guessed more or less right. I figured since it involved an American, it was intended to impart some measure of ridicule or insult. Wrong. I happened to see the humour in the word 'tit'. Rocket | ||
| Jaimec |
Heh heh heh. He said "Tit!" Heh heh heh... | ||
| Trojan |
Don't start us on the words 'Bum', 'Fanny' or 'Fag' then. We'll be here all week!  | ||
| Slaughter |
I have a list of tits. It's the images that do it for me though. | ||
| Slaughter |
Jimmy Dean came into California from Texas. He was on (I believe) Johnny Carson back in the 60's where he'd talk about the culture shock of coming to LA and needing a smoke... and getting the weirdest looks asking for a faggot. Of course now, he'd be crucified for that one word but hey, that was the Johnny Carson show and that was then. |
