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Spatten1
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 10:49 am: | 
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Andella:
Sweet! You'll have big fun with the 1125! |
Andella
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 10:54 am: |
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I (along with everyone else) can't wait. Getting a foot of snow today and possibly another on Sunday. I guess the 30 day or so delay isn't such a terrible thing for me after all. |
Bonjoxb12s
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 10:58 am: |
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As for prices, believe it or not, it is based manufacturing costs
This is a very inaccurate statement. 5 years ago you had to be put on a waiting list and paid $5k OVER MSRP, now dealers are at MSRP, and they are STILL making $3-$4k profit on EACH BIKE...... now tell me that's based on manufacturing costs....
Jammin, I don't believe a name is needed on this forum. If you want, look at my profile and then find the nearest dealership. As far as throwing some unsuspecting salesman under the bus, I won't do that. The truth is here in the midwest (or at least Missouri), when it gets cold, the sales drop and the salesman wont see another sale till late January or February. Facts are facts..... |
Wolfridgerider
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 11:22 am: |
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I can't for the life of me figure out what you do with a cruiser on a race track.
http://www.fasttraxlive.com/index.htm
They will let you ride anything as long as its safe. Its a good school to learn to ride YOUR bike.... whatever it is... |
Mikej
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 11:28 am: |
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quote:Harley's domestic customer is getting older and grayer every day.
The last dozen or so times I've been in a Harley dealership the majority of the other customers in there were definitely younger than me, and I'm not even close to retirement age (at least I don't think so, even if on some days I do feel so). |
Doerman
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 11:55 am: |
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Jammin'
You write well and make interesting points. Thanks!, Asbjorn |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 12:33 pm: |
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They will let you ride anything as long as its safe. Its a good school to learn to ride YOUR bike.... whatever it is...
It's a great concept.
Wouldn't you drag hard parts really quickly on a track with a cruiser? I crashed a KZ1000 once dragging hard parts, it levered the rear wheel in the air and off I went. |
Wolfridgerider
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 12:40 pm: |
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They had a picture of a guy on a Goldwing on their website last year.
When I took my first class, we had a guy on a Sportster and a guy on a BMW that had the bags removed.
I think its the best way to find out just what you and your bike can do.
The bad thing about it is it tends to lead to turning your NEW 07 Firebolt into a track only bike, Leathers, Tires, Boots, Race Fuel..... it just goes on and on |
Jammin_joules
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 01:00 pm: |
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As for prices, believe it or not, it is based manufacturing costs
This is a very inaccurate statement. 5 years ago you had to be put on a waiting list and paid $5k OVER MSRP, now dealers are at MSRP, and they are STILL making $3-$4k profit on EACH BIKE...... now tell me that's based on manufacturing costs....
You are talking two different things.
Manufacture Suggested Retail and costs charged to dealers versus open market dealership prices to buyers.
Last I checked it is still a free market and the laws of supply & demand rule.
Go back to 2003 and you will see the MSRP, and prices charged dealers, went up marginally from 2002 models. Now go back to those years and look at the Motor Company profit margins - guess what, not that different then when bikes were more available. This is because the dealers are charged teh same price whether they mark them up above MSRP or not.
I don't mean to sound too loudly in Harley's defense but consider this fact:
When everything Harley made was selling out,(circa 1995-2003) why didn't the Motor Company just make all high margin bikes like Heritage Classics, Wide Glides, Low Riders, Electra Glide Classics and Ultra Classics? They still made a good selection of lower priced, lower margin bikes like the Electra Glide Standard, the Softail Standard, Sportsters and the Super Glide. If they were the evil, price gouging, stock-holder centric entity some here portray them to be, they would have only sold the product that delivered to them the best profits - wouldn't they?
What dealers were able to charge people who had to have a 100th anniversary model is on them, not the manufacturer. Harley dealers are not a company franchise store like a McDonald's. Each sets their own business plan & strategy into motion based on cost of doing business, operating costs in their market, (building, labor costs, interest costs to finance operations, etc.) and desired profit margin for the owners. In the same era you are talking about (2001 - 2003) many dealerships were grown to the new mega-stores found off most Interstate highways. Store staffs were doubled or tripled in payroll, inventories as well, investments in training on things like dyno tuning, the digital tech and EFI were required. Guess what, the banks don't finance these things for free Bucky. Now those staff have to be paid year round, even when winter sales trickle to a few bikes a month and work on mods & accessories falls way off.
I am not saying the average Harley dealer is not well off. But it is far from the simplistic approach often painted here. |
Spatten1
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 01:20 pm: |
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Goldwings are actually made to perform (on a relative basis). Considering the size and weight they kick butt and also have reasonable good cornering clearance.
When I was riding my X1, I jumped on a client's Goldwing. Damn thing accelerated way harder than my Buell. |
Wolfridgerider
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 01:43 pm: |
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There is some guy at the Dragon that will follow you and record it for a fee. He rides a Wing and from what I understand almot no one can leave him behind.
Goldwing...Made in the USA, Marysville Ohio |
Jammin_joules
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 02:14 pm: |
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I can't for the life of me figure out what you do with a cruiser on a race track.
Why not?
Pre-baby boomer bikers were dragging floor boards and smoking rear wheels on these bikes long before Siciro Honda met the nicest people.
I was at a couple Harley PhD schools, "Back to the Track", on the Vegas road course taught by the Freddie Spencer Race School. They load up competitive brands with comparable models so sales folks can talk with conviction as to why the Harley model is better.
Of interest is always new models being rolled out. In years past, the XB Buells, then the Ulysses, the V-Rods too. In fact, I bought a Ulysses the year after this because I rode the BMW and V-Strom and realized what I was looking for was most aptly captured in the Ulysses.
Eye opening was how well the Dyna Wide Glide of 2006 rode compared to the same model in 2005. First recognize that this was three full days of riding Buells and V-Rods, Ducatis, BMW, Honda, Triumph and other more sport oriented bikes. You are taught step by step how to ride on a race course. Lap times drop with each class room instruction and subsequent time on the track.
Then on the last day they brought out the cruisers. In 2006, amonng others, the Honda VTX1800's and a couple Victory models were being tauted as competitive to the Dyna models. So by now you knew how to ride, even if you had never dragged a knee before. I will see if I can find photos of some of the floor boards we modified.
So in 2006 Harley put a 125% stiffer swing arm on the Dynas, 49mm fork tubes versus 42mm, and stiffened the frame when they went to the 6-spd. It was in preparation for the 96cu-in motor. All these bikes are stock, mind you. Well, the 2006 Wide Glide waxed any competitive model, no matter who the rider was on which model. Some, like the VTX, pulled away on the long straights, but had trouble approaching corners and negotiating them which is where the Wide Glides would pass them every time. But even the '05 Wide Glide was slower than the '06 with the same motor, and on a course where you never left 3rd gear.
Reason: a Buell Trilogy item; chassis rigidity.
With the stiffer frame and front end you were able to enter, negotiate and leave corners faster, hitting the rev limiters all around the track. The stiffer swing arm put the power to the rear wheel better too. The competitive bikes might as well have been stale old knock offs in this regard. You see, Harley does continue to improve the Brand, whether sport bike riders bother to learn about them or not.
Oh, by the way, our dealership sends 3 to 4 sales people to this each year plus two of the owners. Just some of the cost of doing business that many people don't see. If your salesman is overly focused on beating a competitive dealerships price on a Harley and knows nothing about why the particular model is better than a Honda or Triumph, I guess you know he has not been to Back to the Track so he has to focus on price.
Same thing with the 1125r. Five of us went to Salt Lake City and Miller Motorsport to ride it Labor Day week. We also took in BUB Speed Trials on the Salt at Bonneville scouting for possible entry of a couple bikes in 2008, maybe an 1125r.
SO what is that worth to buyers?
Does that make it worth $100 more to you than buying an 1125r from a dealer down south 50 miles?
Does that make it worth $500 more to you than buying an 1125r from a dealer down south 50 miles?
Does that make it worth $1,000 more to you than buying an 1125r from a dealer down south 50 miles?
- the latter is what it costs to send each person to ride and train on the 1125r.
Is it a coincidence that our dealership caught the uncharged battery on our first 1125r before putting it on the sales floor, let alone having delivered it and had a customer with a dead battery in their garage at home.
Does that make it worth $500 more to you than buying an 1125r from a dealer down south 50 miles?
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Spatten1
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 02:34 pm: |
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Jammin_joules:
Do you work at High Country? Why did you guys quit serving beer to riders on weekends? |
Wolfridgerider
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 03:47 pm: |
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http://www.highcountryharley.com/sales.html
 Nice pic |
Jammin_joules
| | Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 12:23 pm: |
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Honda VTX and Harley-Davidson Wide Glide cornering wear after 3 days with Freddie Spencer Race instruction on Vegas Road Course - maybe if the floor boards were in a rear control position???
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Daves
| | Posted on Friday, December 14, 2007 - 01:13 pm: |
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At the last "Back to the Track" I attended I was scolded for hanging off while riding the 2006 SuperGlide.
I was told "no one rides a cruiser that way"
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha |
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