| Author |
Message |
    
P_squared
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 07:14 pm: | 
|
A lot of shotguns. Shotguns are GOOD in home defense. Here are some reasons why:
1) Racking a pump will stop most anyone who can comprehend what that sound means.
2) With the correct loads, it will stop dang near anything.
3) With the correct loads, sight alignment/sight picture/squeeze are not as critical to success.
4) It's so easy, my wife can use it. lol Seriously though, someone who doesn't have the chance/opportunity to practice/practice/practice on a regular basis with a pistol can be passably proficient with a shotgun.
5) With the correct load(s), you can alleviate over-penetration concerns.
See some dogs too. Dogs are GOOD as well. Most people don't want to B&E if it's going to cause a commotion. Small lap dogs, even though I can't personally stand them, cause a LOT of noice & bark at dang near ANYTHING.
For those wondering, your goal(s) should be to stay alive & protect your family 1st & foremost. Wait for the cavalry to arrive, as it's always better to hunt the bad guys with a GROUP than individually.
As for the less than lethal approach, not something I would do. If they come into my home & I have to engage, someone will be dead. Preferrably them. The current trend of B&E is either a group invading your home or a single burglar. I'm not taking a chance it's only 1, as I plan to put down anyone & everyone that comes to the chokepoint permanently. I don't want to put 1 down "temporarily" that could pose a threat AFTER I've dismissed them as a threat. Just my thoughts/views & YMMV. |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 10:35 pm: |
|
The less than lethal response in my book is a bad idea when my families' lives are on the line.
As I said on another thread if I have reason to shoot i have reason to kill. I fire 1 warning
shot (into center body mass) usually followed closely by another one, unless I am overwhelmed by
more targets. (that's why I score poorly on my son's video games, with double taps the second
shot scores as a miss so even though I clear the levels my hit percentages hover around 50%)
on the levels where things get hot and heavy. I'm not interested in losing the habit though.
As for laser sights If you practice with your chosen weapon to proficiency you can become
almost as accurate "point shooting" as you are snapping off aimed shot. It will become a
natural extension of your arms whether it is a pistol or long arm. This is true for any range
you will encounter indoors, out to 10 years or even more.
The idea of a bad guy turning and running after seeing a dot on their chest is good tv,
but most people will be completely unaware of the dot if it is not shining in their eyes,
which in the case of an intruder is not a bad idea, as long as you are not in a state where
they can sue you for the threat/eye damage/mental anguish.
Yes, covering someone with a weapon mounted light is problematic, but training is paramount.
Your finger should not be inside the trigger guard if you are not ready to shoot. Ever. If
you momentarily cover a family member with the weapon/light it is a scary moment for both
parties, but far preferable to hoping the bad guys will just leave you alone.
As always the idea is to avoid a confrontation if at all possible, but if it comes down to it
you have to be ready to do whatever it takes to survive and protect your family.
It is harder than most people think to face another man over the sights of a loaded weapon,
and harder yet to pull the trigger. Even if it all happens in a second it changes you forever. |
P_squared
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - 08:13 pm: |
|
Diablobrian,
"It is harder than most people think to face another man over the sights of a loaded weapon, and harder yet to pull the trigger. Even if it all happens in a second it changes you forever."
Yes & No. If you prep yourself 1st & foremost that YOU & YOUR family will LIVE, then it's not "quite" as invasive. First & foremost, folks MUST put themselves into the mindest that, "I WILL LIVE!" Once you've done that, you can do most anything.
So, the "general consensus" is:
* Put the "valuables" aka your family in a safe spot
* Pick a chokepoint to hold and DO NOT pursue.
* Wait for the cavalry to arrive
* Pick a weapon that is less "sensitive" to accuracy, aka 12 .ga
* "Security alarms" work, both dogs & electircally monitored. Make use of them.
* If you place yourself at a chokepoint to hold the intruders, make 100% sure you have at least 1 backup weapon (jams, misfeeds, etc.)
* DO NOT "HUNT" the intruders. Protect yourself & your family.
* Keep a cellphone & flashlight next to the bed/in the safe room.
* If you can set up indirect lighting to highlight your target at the chokepoine, while keepin your cover, DO SO. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 09:26 am: |
|
Good summary.
Interesting that after this gal shot and killed the murdered in the Colorado Church . . . I heard on the radio that civilians who use deadly force have a far better track record than law enforcement for shooting the right person (as opposed to an innocent) AND for hitting their target.
I still find it incredulous to hear of urban shootings where 30 shots are fired and only 3 hit a perp 12' away.
Thanks for the summary. |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 01:04 pm: |
|
Hey P2, that is some great advice. Thanks. |
Bcordb3
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 01:40 pm: |
|
Here comes the JUDGE!
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details. cfm?id=199&category=Revolver
This is going to be my home defense weapon. Both 410 shot gun ammo and Colt .45 ammo. |
Swordsman
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 02:00 pm: |
|
2 weekends ago my uncle showed me that very pistol. He said he keeps the 1st shot as 410. If that doesn't convince them, the 2nd shot will.
I didn't get to try it, but it feels great. He said it has very little recoil. I'd love to have one... been shopping for awhile now.
~SM |
Cowboy
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 02:07 pm: |
|
#6 shot makes a hell of a mess at 6---10 feet I keep a 410 ga 2 bbl. with 3 inch. barels as back up. |
Madduck
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 02:47 pm: |
|
The longer barrel length version is a lot easier to shoot, makes an excellent weapon for all sorts of purposes. My 83 year old mother killed a coyote in her yard with hers. Coyote had chased her cat up a tree and mom just went out and shot it from about 20 feet. About half of the coyote was gone. That is a seriously lethal weapon at close range but it doesn't carry danger very far or to a neigbors house. I load mine with 3 rounds of .410 and two rounds of 45LC. Shotgun has moved to backup gun. |
Thumper74
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 03:13 pm: |
|
When I took my Concealed Carry class I was shocked to see the inaccuracy of the local PD(class was hosted by Sheriff dept).
I think I've mentioned it before, but I have a Mossberg 500 tactical. It was reasonably priced, and is 7+1. It's loaded with 2.5" OO shots. I keep a Colt Commander too, but if I can't get the job done with 8 12 guage rounds I need to retreat.
Ohio has funny laws too. If they are in your house and aren't a tangible threat you can't use lethal force. I was told that if they are stealing a TV and are unarmed, you help them carry it out. My logic is the same as everyone else's. If you're in my house forcibly at night, you ARE a threat and will be dealt with.
Many police department are going away from 'double taps' during training as the muscle memory makes the officer holster his weapon instinctively, sometimes before the threat has been eliminated. Some officers have been shot and killed by this. I'm also of the mindset that shooting is a last resort and if I HAVE to shoot, it's going to be lethal. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 03:28 pm: |
|
See the profile pic for my home defense weapon. The only other thing I have atm is a Model 70 Classic in 30-06. Not a good home defense weapon...
I'll pick up an HK91 as soon as I find one I can afford. Not a great home defense weapon either.
I agree with the indirect lighting comment. Maybe a switch mounted about knee height near the top of the stairs.
Another thing I think is important is to always assume there is more than one person.
I happen to have NV as well but it's expensive and unless you have a way to secure it to your head it's nearly useless. Luckily mine can be used as a "scope" of sorts. Has about the effective range of the 12Ga 00-Buck too so that's good... Just need be aware of what's further.
So what DO you do when someone comes in claiming to be an officer when you're already in your "safe" position with your family protected? Demand they show a badge?
I guess I never thought of that before... In my scenarios the perp is already dead or fled by the time the officers show up. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 03:31 pm: |
|
"I was told that if they are stealing a TV and are unarmed, you help them carry it out."
He grabbed the TV and yelled "I'm going to bash you in the head with this TV!!!!". That's when I killed him. |
Dobr24
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 04:02 pm: |
|
My attorney told me "if he's dead, there is only one side of the story." |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 04:15 pm: |
|
Also... I make a note to count the stairs every time I go down or up them. I do that so if I do have to walk down the stairs in the dark I know how many steps there are. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 04:36 pm: |
|
Anybody else have a Claymore behind the carpeting of the 3rd stair riser? |
Ratyson
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 04:43 pm: |
|
Ohio has funny laws too. If they are in your house and aren't a tangible threat you can't use lethal force.
Wow. Man I hate hearing of laws like this.
Here, if someone (other than LEO of course) has made entry into your home, you have a right to use lethal force without fear of criminal or civil punishment.} |
Cowboy
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 04:43 pm: |
|
I dont have to worry about the law being in the way as I live in rural area(ranch).If I caled the police they would get here about the same time as my income tax check. |
Bcordb3
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 06:45 pm: |
|
So what DO you do when someone comes in claiming to be an officer when you're already in your "safe" position with your family protected? Demand they show a badge?
I would call 911 ask them if an officer was at my door. I am sure they contact dispatch in a heart beat and give you an answer
THEN
I would lock and load one round of ball ammunition and fire for affect. I don't know if I would do that but I would certainly be ready |
Jackbequick
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 07:12 pm: |
|
The Judge, huh?
Just to prove that nothing is ever new, check out the Ruger SP-101.
I've had that five shooter for about 25 years or so. And its a great piece too. First thing I grab for security when traveling by car or RV and want to have some hardware along for security.
I personally thing the .357 Magnum is a better choice of cartridge for home and personal security in guns of this weight. It has enough heft to absorb that much recoil and not scare younger/smaller shooters.
And its shorter length and smaller size lets it be carried easily enough in pockets.
Pretty much a zero maintenance gun for long periods of time, low recoil, and enough authority to resolve issues. And simple too.
Everyone my family is familiar with the SP-101, the rules are, 1), point it at things that threaten you, 2), put your finger on the trigger if the threat persists and, 3), when you fear for your life and there is no other option, pull the trigger one or two times. The need has not arisen yet and I hope it never does.
My wife has shot it many times with .38 Specials, she finds it pleasant to shoot and is not the least intimidated by it. The service loads are .357 Magnums and if she every has to use it in self defense, I'll bet she won't even notice the difference in recoil.
Jack
(Message edited by jackbequick on December 12, 2007) |
Paint_shaker
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 07:37 pm: |
|
Preface; If those great individuals who created this Country, failed to protect and defend what they believed was rightfully theirs, we would probably still be under British rule!
Florida used to be like Michigan... but changed their laws as well. If your life is in immediate danger (in publik or your own home) you no longer are required to seek an avenue of retreat.
That being said, if the 2 Sheriff's patrol cars in the driveway and the barking dogs (non-police K-9) don't deter a bad guy from making an illegal entry, said bad guy is gambling that either the Mrs. or I will miss....
Care to play the odds?? |
Mikej
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 11:25 am: |
|
quote:I would call 911 ask them if an officer was at my door. I am sure they contact dispatch in a heart beat and give you an answer
Maybe, maybe not, depends on what agency is at the door and who they think is inside and if they believe you are who you say you are. Not all agencies contact the local agency when they are in the neighborhood conducting business. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 12:50 pm: |
|
Helmet mounted pistol |
Swordsman
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 03:36 pm: |
|
"Anybody else have a Claymore behind the carpeting of the 3rd stair riser?"
Sword or mine? 
If sword, then yes. Cheap ass (but razor sharp) "ninja" sword beside the bed, and rapier, longsword, katana, and footman's warhammer (with 9" spike head) in the closet next to the bedroom doorway.
And a .22 rifle with no ammo. 
~SM |
Aldaytona
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 05:00 pm: |
|
Just as a public service announcement, Smith and Wesson has a $50.00 rebate and 2 extra magazines when you buy a new 9VE or 40VE. It's an American copy of the Glock 17 in polymer and stainless with a lifetime warranty.
Around these parts the dealers have been selling them way below MSRP. Local $289.00 minus $50.00 rebate with 4 16 round magazines.
Can't beat that |
Thumper74
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 05:52 pm: |
|
I've got the SW9VE and it's a fun gun. Neat bit of info: S&W was sued by Glock because many of the parts looked identical on the original Sigma series. One magazine writer went so far as to drop a Glock barrel into the slide to see how it fit, but was afraid to fire it. Sadly, the early one had extractor rod issues. The redesigned weapon is pretty nice an inexpensive and doesn't feel like you're shaking hands with a 2"x4" (Glock grip). After that they were known as Swocks.
Next toy is going to be a Springfield XD...
(Message edited by thumper74 on December 13, 2007) |
Dobr24
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 05:55 pm: |
|
Glitch,
You would need a neck brace to shoot straight! that thing must weigh 40 pounds. |
Teddagreek
| | Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 08:24 pm: |
|
We have stand your ground law in Florida...
If your life or some one else's is in jeopardy you can use deadly force. |
|
