| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Did you forget he still has a broken hand, by the way? | ||
| Benm2 |
If I remember right, the issue with the Michelins was late-race performance. During all of the during-season testing in 07, I don't generally remember there being huge gaps (except for the Duc's power advantage early). I can still visualize the closing race, with that 3-second shot of Hayden getting on the gas, and the back just stepping out, then the parade of passes...'course, didn't seem to affect Pedrosa, but I think he's got hollow bones. Just like last year though, the expectations will likely differ from the results. Stoner, Ducati, and Bridgestone all have bullseyes on their backs. Honda is all about winning, they won't be taking this lightly. Michelin probably doesn't think much of their black eye (or Rossi, right now...) It WAS interesting to see how far back Hopper was on the Kawi, considering how far up he was running at the end of the season. | ||
| Jaimec |
Looks like Stoner is back to his old form. Big high side yesterday, and big high side today and he's done until the testing ban is lifted in January... http://tinyurl.com/yotnea | ||
| Benm2 |
Hey, that number 1 plate is HEAVY, it throws off the balance of the whole bike. What a legacy he has to try to battle, proving that he won due to being the best RIDER when alot of people (and vocal *COUGH ROSSI COUGH*) are crediting the 'stones & motor a little heavy... | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Stoner crashed because he is always trying to find the limit.....Maybe he was pushing too much the GP8, that he is not 100% familiar with. Get well soon Casey...... | ||
| Rocketman |
Stoner crashed because he is always trying to find the limit..... Yet the others aren't just because they don't fall off? Yep, sounds like Greek logic to me. Rocket | ||
| Jaimec |
Those "Stoner Hyper Fans" are something, aren't they?  | ||
| Rocketman |
Steady on Jaime. Vag is on first name terms, lol. Just having a bit of fun Vag. I do enjoy your stuff in this thread, honestly, lol. Rocket | ||
| Trojan |
Half of the riders are still running the 2007 bikes with only minor modifications, so don't read much into the times from Spain this week. Rossi was riding the same spec bike that he finished the season on, but with Bridgestone tyres, just to get a base setting. Also, some riders such as James Toseland didn't run a soft qualifying tyre at all during the test, so their times are of course skewed by this. January's tests will be much closer to real 2008 form methinks  | ||
| Vagelis46 |
For me it is very strange that Melandri is over 1.5s slower than Stoner after so many tests. I would never believe that if someone told me . Why ? Rossi said that he never thought that Bridgestnes would be so "not rigid" | ||
| Jaimec |
From what I read at MotoGP.com, Super Marco is having difficulty getting comfortable on the bike. But hey... How about Lorenzo? He finished third fastest overall behind the two Repsol riders, on a satellite Yamaha using last year's bike (Nicky and Dani were both on the 2008 Honda). And the top three were all on Michelin (though Rossi won at Jerez this year on Michelin too). I'm still thinking Vale may end up regretting the switch but we'll see... | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Rocket, Since you seem to like my country, why don't you and you friend Elias come for a fly&ride vacation in Halkidiki ? I guarantee for the seafood and ouzo. www.flyride.gr is expecting you! Then we could discuss motoGP, in person ! | ||
| Rocketman |
Vag, Elias and Elpina have been trying to get me to Greece for years. Thank you for your warm thoughts. I will consider Greece seriously for 2008. If so I would like to meet you providing you're not as adamant like Elias that everything in the world originated in Greece. I couldn't handle the both of you chewing my ear off, lol!!! Rocket | ||
| Vagelis46 |
No, I do not share that attitude. I just enjoy the sun & sea and of course riding bikes over here. | ||
| Bads1 |
Rossi needs a helmet sponsor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8POpAuXTL4&feature =related | ||
| Jimidan |
Geez, I am off the site a few days and come back to some literary gems like this one: Pegged you right you went on to more name calling. Fu-ck You and Twat, and Prick. They all seem to be more fitting to you. I Blake shuts your account down its not my fault you bring that shit on yourself A-HOLE. I have a name or a user name. Its not you American or You Americans. So..... who is ignorant your Father or your Mother?? How the heck did all that pro}fanity get by the censors...I thought it automatically cut that stuff out. And all Rocketman kept saying was "Rocket", like does that men like "dude" or "word"? BadS1 was opening up a can of American Whupass on him...and all that he could say was Rocket...Rocket... | ||
| Rocketman |
Rocket removed his comments that Dana seemed upset by. If you really must know, I expressed a view that Rossi might not be as well received by people living in the United States, as say he would be by people living in Europe. Apparently my terminology expressing such a view came across as me being anti-American, which of course I sometimes am. Just like sometimes I don't agree with my Mum or my best friend or my sister or Greeks. Please, see the humour! Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
I see the humor, which was the impetus for my tongue in cheek comment. But I think that many race fans here in the USA really like Rossi. I mean, what is there not to like? My next comment may be considered heresy by some on this site, but with regards to tolerance, motorcycle road race fans are a cut above the good ol' boy cruiser riders, and especially above the NASCAR fans, and for sure the general population. So don't confuse the attitudes of guys who are true road race fans with all of the others (like some who posted in this thread, whew!)...they love Rossi for what he does and who he is. But don't take my word for it, just come to Daytona Bikeweek and see for yourself. First go to Main Street and then go to the track. The contrasts are stark and obvious. The defense rests its case. | ||
| Rocketman |
That wasn't my point Jimi. I was suggesting that those who say Rossi's career has peaked, in preference to Stoner being the next Rossi, is the American viewing public really viewing the racing, or reading about Moto GP in the magazines and online? Sure there are plenty of Americans that will watch the racing on specific TV channels, but I was suggesting there are plenty that don't get to see much racing at all, but they're content with forming opinions we might read on BadWeB and take as gospel. I know, it's long winded. Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Jimi, Trying to stereotype any one group of folks is poor form and frankly reflects as much if not more bigotry as you seem to accuse others of harboring. Lose the hate. I happen to be a fan of NASCAR and Motorcycle racing. I like Rossi a lot. Did you mean "heresy" or "hearsay"? Some of the most narrow-minded folks I've ever met have been motorcycle road racers. | ||
| Jimidan |
Trying to stereotype any one group of folks is poor form and frankly reflects as much if not more bigotry as you seem to accuse others of harboring. Lose the hate. I happen to be a fan of NASCAR and Motorcycle racing. I like Rossi a lot. So, let's get this straight...you crack on my post as a being hateful and bigoted, yet you let BadS1's post slide? Maybe you meant for your comments to be directed at his post and not mine. They seem to fit his. Let's re-read his post and see: Pegged you right you went on to more name calling. Fu-ck You and Twat, and Prick. They all seem to be more fitting to you. I Blake shuts your account down its not my fault you bring that shit on yourself A-HOLE. I have a name or a user name. Its not you American or You Americans. So..... who is ignorant your Father or your Mother?? See what I mean? OK, let's get back to my post for a moment. Yeah, you say that you happen to be a fan of NASCAR and Motorcycle racing, and that you like Rossi a lot, but are you a typical NASCAR fan(who could give two hoots for bike racing)? I would say, by definition, that answer is no. Are you a typical Bikeweek attendee? I would say no again. Shucks, you don't even have a tattoo (showing)! I think there are stereotypes and then there are observed common traits of a group, behavior patterns or trends. A stereotype is more of an oversimplified perception, like 'Southerners are lazy'. They can range from those that are wildly inaccurate and negative to those that are more than a little bit true, and may even shed positive light upon the group of individuals. It all depends on how astute the observer is and if they employ sound psychological techniques of observation. Although stereotypes are rarely entirely accurate, statistical studies have shown that in some cases stereotypes do represent measurable facts. Once again is is all in who is doing the observation. I would contend that one could easily measure common traits of the typical Bikeweek attendee by whether he or she spends it on Main Street or at the Speedway, or even what kind of bike they ride, clothes they wear. Heck, folks spend lots of money trying to fit the stereotype of one group or another...it is NO accident. To deny these obvious traits for the fear of being called a bigot is naive. If there were no behavioral patterns of groups, then there would be no sociology, psychology, or etymology, ethnology, archetype, homogeneity, IQ tests, right wing, left wing, Match Game (the survey says!), marketing research, etc, etc.. I would suggest that your characterization of my post as being filled with bigotry and hate is more of a conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified opinion, than my observations about Bikeweek attendees who spend their time on Main Street, or HD cruiser riders. I thought you might think that it was heresy  . I wonder what the typical poster on Speedzilla Ducati would think about these same observations at Bikeweek? To answer that question, you would first have to make some assumptions about what a typical poster on that site is, or er, ah, a stereotype based on the type of bike they ride, whether or not they were road race fans, etc.. Are you trying to say that there are no group characteristics of note that can be made of a typical Main Street biker, and then of a typical road race fan at the Speedway? Or a typical NASCAR fan and a typical Formula 1 fan? Come on...let's be real. All that you have to do is walk around for a while with your eyes and ears open. But that is just my opinion, and there was no hate or bigotry intended in my original post, just observations by one who has been trained to make them...I am just a typical Pshycology/Sociology double major. I can't help myself.  If I offended anyone, I sincerely apologize. There, that is a bit different than BadS1 would have put it, doncha think? (Message edited by jimidan on December 06, 2007) | ||
| Jimidan |
Rocket sez: That wasn't my point Jimi. I was suggesting that those who say Rossi's career has peaked, in preference to Stoner being the next Rossi, is the American viewing public really viewing the racing, or reading about Moto GP in the magazines and online? Sure there are plenty of Americans that will watch the racing on specific TV channels, but I was suggesting there are plenty that don't get to see much racing at all, but they're content with forming opinions we might read on BadWeB and take as gospel. I know, it's long winded. I know it may seem bewildering to you to think that I didn't get all of that from Rocket, Rocket, Rocket, etc. However, I would contend that there are plenty (nearly all) of American road race fans (and admittedly, there are not nearly as many road race fans as there are NASCAR fans, but don't get me started on that one  ) watching MotoGP on SPEED. Up until now, that was the only way that an average American could watch MotoGP, unless they saved all of their lunch money and missed a couple of months of their sub-prime mortgage payments, to allow them to go to California to see it live. True race road race fans in America will also read about it in the many magazines and on-line sources, as you suggest, and that you may be correct that there are some who don't watch much of it at all, but merely digest the opinions of others on Badweb...so what is your point? Are you saying that some Badwebbers are not true road race fans, or just that Americans are stoopid  ? Please see the humor... Does that mean that Rossi's career isn't over the hill, or that Stoner may be the next Rossi? It sure looks like Rossi's career has apexed and that Stoner is on the up-hill climb...but one season does not a greatest-of-all-time racer make. Shucks, I don't think that Nicky Hayden is done with his assent yet, he just hit an 800cc plateau, fostered by Honda's overtly designing the bike for Pedrosa rather than their world champion. I think the times at the most resent testing is an indicator of that. If MotoGP had retained the 990 cc bikes, Nicky would have been right in the fight again. There is no doubt that he could ride the big bike as well as anyone, if not better. It is obvious that there is a lot of parity in MotoGP racing these days, but it was just Casey's year on the Booming Ducati. I was thrilled with his championship...weren't you? Also, as you have intimate knowledge of, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion on these sites, as long as they don't post comments like BadS1 did...how DID he do that anyway? How does he get a bye on his, while I get raked for suggesting that there may be a distinction between those Bikeweek attendees who are Main Street only and those that spend their time at the Speedway watching road racing?  Isn't there an automatic censor program. Why can't BadS1 just lose the hate...when loving is so much easier? | ||
| Rocketman |
Jimi, I will say this much. No I wasn't happy with this years Moto GP. Not the racing. Not the outcome. And not Stoner winning the title. In fact for me, Stoner's title win completely took the shine off Ducati winning it. I don't rate Stoner, yet. Rossi told me he thinks he has at least three more years, if not more, before he even considers thinking himself as peaked. So what is the American viewing audience figure for watching Moto GP on speed? Let me have it if you're so keen to pick the bones out of my deleted comments. Cheers me dears!! Rocket | ||
| Jimidan |
Rocket, Stoner doesn't care if you (or anyone else) think he has arrived or not, he went ahead and won the championship anyway, in a very dominating manner. I think Rossi has three more years of MotoGP left in him, maybe more. But I think he already has peaked. At his epoch, he won on any track, with any machine, in any weather, against anybody. He no longer is able to do that. Has he gotten worse or has everybody else gotten better? I don't know, but it is all relative anyway. The results are right there in the record, and they speak volumes. So what is the American viewing audience figure for watching Moto GP on speed? What do you mean?} | ||
| Rocketman |
Anyone that thinks Rossi isn't riding as good as he ever has this past two seasons is watching a different Rossi to me. Sure Rossi didn't win the title both seasons, but winning a title, as we have witnessed these past two seasons, can be as much about other things besides being the best rider. Rossi is still the benchmark by a country mile, and if Bayliss winning the last race of the 990 season is anything to go by, age has little if anything to do with peak performance for the likes of the creme de la creme racers under 40 years old. Rocket | ||
| Trojan |
I think Rossi has three more years of MotoGP left in him, maybe more. But I think he already has peaked. I have to agree with Rocket. Rossi rode better in 2007 than he has in years, and possibly at any time in his career so far. The big difference this year was that his bike was measurably inferior to just about every other factory bike on the grid, including the Kawasaki, and was also the slowest bike on the grid. To judge just how good Rossi was in 2007 you have to compare his performances not to Stoner, but to the other Yamaha riders using the same machinery and against other Michelin riders using the same tyres. On that level Rossi was head and shoulders better than everyone else. The only thing that will stop Rossi's career at the top will be Rossi himself, and I believe that if Yamaha cannot deliver a competitive package for him next year it may well be his last in MotoGP. Rossi rides because he enjoys it, and there is little point continuing once the enjoyment is gone. His first passion has always been for Rallying, and I still wouldn't write him off for a Formula One drive either. There are undoubtedly other riders in the ascendancy, but one world title does not prove that Stoner is in the same league long term as Rossi. Other riders have won a title then disappeared off the podium for ever very soon afterwards (Alex Criville, Kenny Roberts Jr etc). Stoner needs to prove that he can do the same thing year after year, even when he doesn't have the best bike. As for Hayden, 2008 is definitely a make or break year for him. His contract with HRC is up at the end of the year and Honda have a whole stable full of stars waiting for their chance at the top. If he doesn't deliver big time he will be out of a job for 2009. Honda may appear to be on top in the early tests, but under the surface they are still struggling. Both Pedrosa & Hayden are unhappy with the 2008 bike so far and Hayden has even requested a 'hybrid' bike using the 2007 engine in the new frame for the next tests because the 2008 motor is so unreliable (so far). I think that 2008 may be a better year for MotoGP fans | ||
| Vagelis46 |
"Jimi, I will say this much. No I wasn't happy with this years Moto GP. Not the racing. Not the outcome. And not Stoner winning the title. In fact for me, Stoner's title win completely took the shine off Ducati winning it. I don't rate Stoner, yet. " You are not happy because Rossi did not win the title. You were not happy last year as well, because Hayden got the title.... You are a typical Rossi-fan, unless Rossi wins the racing&season is not worth it! For me this is normal in all sports, like football, tennis, golf.... Unless our favourite team/athlet wins peaple get dissapointed. Actually '07 was a great year : Ducati won A new talent here Bridgestone is here Suzuki improved Kawasaki improved Of course Rossi's fans do not rate Stoner. They actualy hate him. For me the only bad thing about the 07' season was that it became clear the infuence Rossi has in motoGP. 1. Rossi asks for Bridgestones, Bridgestone says no. Rossi says he might retire and tals to Dorna. Then Bridgestone were told that unless they supply Rossi with tires, motoGP will use Michelin control tires, and all their hard work is to the trash. 2. HRC and Pedrosa asks for Bridgestone, Bridgestone says no. No-one really cares and HRC stays with Michelin. So what a true race fan says about this. Do they like that Rossi the "great" always gets what he wants ? It is clear noe that Rossi is above motoGP. Actually I think that they should call it the "Rossi show". The myth that Rossi has won with inferior machinery is rudicoulus. Was his RCV inferior, or the M1?? NO it was not. Also all the other M1 riders are second rate. Rossi made sure of that. Rossi was getting the best Michelin tires, before each race, and got many titles that way. Now Rossi gave Michelin up... Do Rossi fans want to watch races that only Rossi wins ? I think it is obvious. Yes they do. Close racing or not, unless Rossi wins the race is boring. Rossi is the dark force in motoGP right now. I hope he gets what he deserves next year. For me that will be #4, then he can go and race trolleys...... | ||
| Trojan |
The myth that Rossi has won with inferior machinery is rudicoulus. Was his RCV inferior, or the M1?? NO it was not. The M1 has been the slowest bike at every speed trap all season, and everyone that has tested it compared to the other bikes has said it isn't as good. How much proof do you need? Also all the other M1 riders are second rate. Rossi made sure of that. Colin Edwards, Max Biaggi, Marco Melandri, Alex Barros....second rate? I think you'll find that they are only second rate when compared to Rossi, not in general. If Stoner is as good as he is supposed to be then he will of course win the next 5 world titles back to back, or does that only happen when Rossi is 'given' better treatment? | ||
| Jaimec |
Based on the results at the last test, I'm feeling more and more that Rossi's jump to Bridgestone may be premature. We'll see. Now it's up to Yamaha to step up their game. Rossi has proven he can win when he has the second best bike on the grid, as he did the first two years he rode for Yamaha (everyone said the Honda RCV was the better bike). But this year the M1 was waxed by EVERYBODY. The fact that Rossi remained competitive is a testimonial to his ability, NOT the bike. Of course, you'll never convince those Stoner Hyper Fans and Rossi haters of that. They know what they know and don't want to be confused by the facts. | ||
| Trojan |
Based on the results at the last test, I'm feeling more and more that Rossi's jump to Bridgestone may be premature. We'll see. Rossi seemed pleased with the results of his first tests, and had gone away with more confidence than at any time last year apparently. His times were off the pace for a number of reasons, but mostly because of his injuries to his right hand sustained at the end of the season. He even abandoned the tests early because he was unable to continue. Now that Yamaha nad Bridgestone have some data to work with about each other I'm sure we will see some big strides over the next few tests It will be very interesting to compare the relative performances of the Michelin Yamahas vs the Bridgestone one at the January tests thats for sure. If Bridgestone is to make a difference then I would expect to see a difference by the end of January testing. |
