| Author | Message | ||
     Buellerandy |
For a company thats as passionate about its employees and motorcycles as the customers are...I could see myself getting pretty defensive from the getgo. If I felt someone was speaking ill of a fellow associate or trying to discredit them when I personally knew better (keywords being "felt" and "trying") I probably wouldn't be tip-toeing through the tulips either. | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
Buellerandy, This ANON has every right to be upset if what your saying is correct, BUT that doesn't give them the right to say what they really feel. There is a time and a place for everything. Choose your words carefully. I would and DO expect more from such a great company. As blake requested from chas1969, I would also say an apology is in order from Anon. | ||
| Stretchman |
Look, if you are so sensitive that maybe someone saying F*** off to you ruffles your feathers, then maybe you should look at another brand. I mean, "You meet the nicest people on a Honda", right? Except when they have to cut their fingers off or commit Sepuku, they're really some good guys. Now, the right side scoop thing is simply what they said. It has to work in all circumstances. If the bike had vapor lock issues with the fuel injection, or mirrorring at low speeds, the people here would be complaining about that, instead of the fan. Why anyone cares about the fan being on is a mystery to me? I think it makes the bike sound cool. But once you roll that puppy out of the showroom, guess what? You can do whatever you feel like doing with it. You can put on or take off stuff to your heart's content. If you like the RSS, then by all means, let no one stand in your way. If a Jardine is in your future, then go for it. You don't have to argue with anyone. Even if they are right and you are not. Look deep into my eyes... Do I care? Ride it like you stole it, man. | ||
| Metalstorm |
I dunno, "F*** off" is just water cooler talk around here. Well.. if we had a water cooler, it would be water cooler talk. And there were definitely "*"s in it so it's not nearly as bad as the uncensored version  Frustration is a mighty powerful thing. Makes us react first, think second. Buell is a family. Anony was quick to jump to Abe's defense and I think that's a good thing. Family comes first, yes? | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
Stretch, It has nothing to do with being sensitive. It's bad business practice for a company that is trying to make a name with a brand new bike coming out. If Buell stands behind Anon's post, and they feel his words can speak for the company then I WILL take my business some where else. Learn when it's best to speak, and when it's best to just shut up and let things slide. If anon was really that passionate, then don't post under anon (which most people consider to be someone from the motor company), just make a profile and at least let everyone know WHO feels that way. Look into my eyes as well.... because unlike some, I DO care | ||
| Reepicheep |
LOL! We have now come full Circle, Abe is getting slammed for toeing the company line... and anony is getting slammed for saying what he really feels instead of corporate "play nice" speak. Some people respond with an attack when they feel attacked. It's just the way they are wired. Should they apologize for responding that way? I would, but it's none of my business. Should the person that did something that was perceived as an attack apologize? I would, but it's none of my business. All I will say is that if I wanted to read corporate press releases, I would be over on the Harley site. | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
Many people have been offended on this board, and many people have been called liars in some form or fashion. BUT, I've never experienced Court or Blake or anyone else who knows a great deal about Buell to be so vulgar and unprofessional when choosing their words. Anyone know if Buell adopted the "Harley-Davidson Values"? If so, it would be hard to argue that Anon was plausible in his words/actions taken. | ||
| Buellerandy |
quote- "BUT that doesn't give them the right to say what they really feel." Then in that same respect, people should not mix 1)info seeking and 2)opinions aimed at individuals that they don't know. Quote-"Thanks for your help ... ABE is a good guy but I think he is towing the factory line" I'm not looking at this as a pissing contest. I don't know Abe, I don't know Chas, and I don't know you Sean. All I do know is that if Chas wouldn't have mentioned anything about THINKING Abe is towing the factory line, no one would've felt anyone was being attacked. And Chas would've still received the input he was searching for. Unless I'm completely wrong and/or missed something along the way. Which I'm sure anyone on here would be more than happy to let me know | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
I'll bet Abe is reading this and laughing his ass off | ||
| Birdy |
or shaking his head. | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
I've said my peace, A motor company HAS to hold themselves to a higher standard no matter what. With that said, I'm thinking a nice hot batch of Fried Okra sounds pretty good right now. Damn this Missouri weather. 70's two days ago, and now 30's with light snow  | ||
| Buellerandy |
already had the snow back on Wed. Looks like more tonight As long as it stays warm enough to snow... | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
We had snow last Wed. as well ground is too warm for it to stick though. | ||
| Chas1969 |
My past posts where only 1. I have never seen not one post about fueling problems with the RSS. 2. That all RSS owners have the head temp sensor tell the fan go on less hence cooler engine head ... better than Anon. Nothing personal to Abe, he is a good guy to take peoples questions and writes a piece in Fuell, but emperically his statements are not showing up in real life buells with RSS. This is not a statement of anyone is a liar or personal only bias ...and only bias. People can make up their own minds but so far all the posts have been ... no fueling issues and less time the fan temp threshold is reached ... hense cooler engine. Chas PS: Anon be a man tell us who you are? | ||
| Unibear12r |
Wow, a bunch of internet wizards are now pissed off because they had the low class and lack of wisdom to insult an known expert in his field. So you got personal and got an attitude you didn't like? Well you deserved it and he had EVERY right to say it when you got personal. And you can take your newfound unjustified outrage and shove it where the sun doesn't shine and maybe find your brains. OMG what's next guys? Are Harley's MIBs coming to take away your RSS? The company line??? What do you think that line is? WHY WOULD THEY EVEN CARE????? Did you think that out? It's in their best interest to provide the best airflow for that engine as they can you know. If not for customer satisfaction then at least for warranty costs. If the larger RSS made a true across the board improvement why wouldn't Harley put it on themselves? Very cheap thing for them to do you know. They could have even offered it as an aftermarket "racing" part for "extra" airflow! What makes you so sure you are right and experts wrong. Where is all your data? Who ran a muti seasonal test with say twenty or thirty temp and pressure sensors showing what was happening from front of front cylinder to airflow exit at the rear hugger? Under every possible riding, wind direction, weather condition and road type? MY FAN RUNS LESS WITH THE RSS???? Woopee, you just showed your ignorance! You ever stop to think that you can make your fan run less and it's a BAD thing??? Consider this as a possibility. Stop to think about how air flows through an XB from front to back. Air flows through the front cylinder, then the back, then through the fan and frame to the rear hugger and out. More cool air is forced on the rear cylinder from the left scoop to make up for the higher temp of the air coming from the front and the radiant heat trapped by the frame. Then theres the small right scoop. Where does this air go? Through the fan. Whats larger, the area of the fan or all that frontal area scooping up air? The system was designed to be BALANCED front to back. So now you dump a lot more cold air on the rear cylinder and temp sensor that runs the fan. Right in front of the fan choke point. Could you be causing a high pressure point there? Damn right you can. Can you be blocking airflow around the front cylinder, frying it, yet keeping the fan sensor happy ? Yes! What about very slow speeds in traffic, or low posted zones? Can the fan now draw air to the proper places and at the proper speeds to properly cool that engine? That extra scoop area COULD really kill the fan's ability to do so. Do I KNOW that's what happens? Nope. But do I know that these things (and others not mentioned) COULD be happening? Yes! I won't touch anything airflow wise ahead of the fan. And at first I was very pro RSS until I thought this out. Now somebody's going to have to do a lot of work to prove to me it's a good thing to do. And some of you might remember that I posted so back when the RSS's were first coming out. If you are going to personally challenge an expert in his field publicly about his work or ethics, without good proof there of, you have only shown your ignorance and deserve what you get. | ||
| Bombardier |
Hear Hear! Unibear. Some want these guys to take all the abuse then get their panties in a bunch when FINALLY THEY SNAP......GRAB YOU BY THE THROAT.......RIP OUT THEIR HUNTING KNIVES.......AND.......AND......AND...... CURSE YOU!?! Gee what do you know they are human after all.Surprise Surprise. Get over it and think before you question the ability of an obviously gifted and passionate person. | ||
| Ducxl |
Get over it and think before you question the ability of an obviously gifted and passionate person. Hijack...if they were so gifted we wouldn't have had 5 years worth of defective headlights,and a YELLOW annony unwilling to address said problem. | ||
| Etennuly |
Well, I haven't got my new Fuell yet. I don't have a RSS. I didn't see anywhere in these posts where Anonymous was actually employee of BMC. Abe is an awesome Mechanical Engineer, I was at his seminar and I am proud to ride one of his subjects. The biggest problem with the RSS that I see, is that it if a person does not warm up the engine thoroughly enough before riding the bike, it has to delay the warm up period. In doing so the engine may not reach optimum operating temperatures for longer periods, and maybe ever, if the bike only makes short trips. Would you not agree that this would ultimately lead to higher emissions out puts? Plug failures? ECM's being unable to reach optimum functionality? Oil contamination? Lower fuel mileage? I totally agree with those of you that have installed the RSS and are happy with its function. It works for you because of your situation, hell it will work for a lot of owners for that reason, probably nearly all of us. You know how to handle the bike and do the things to make it work. What about those that it will not work correctly for? Starting with rookie riders and the dealerships. If five people take an eight mile test ride in cool weather with the RSS, the bike never completely warms up, maybe because the salesman had to hurry up a bit, the sixth guy comes in with papers in hand to buy the bike and it won't start and run correctly. Loaded up and fouled plugs. Will that guy wait for the service department to do a tune up on a new bike with forty miles on it? The bike has to start and run every time. It wouldn't work to well if your sales team had to tell them "you have to just let it warm up a little longer because of the RSS!" | ||
| Xbimmer |
 Just got home from T-Day trip and got to read the new Fuell. Abe's response to the RSS question was remarkably similar to an Anony's response last year in one of the several RSS Wars threads on the BB&D Forum. Then and again tonight I looked at my Uly and tried to figure out what they're talking about regarding cooling the fuel rail, and how the stock right engine scoop keeps it cooler in intense heat situations. Seems strange to me that when fan-activated at low speeds the air flow through the factory scoop will pull right past a hot front cylinder head, how does that cool a fuel rail? But I'm just an ignorant consumer, what do I know? Only this, that my Rob Crins RSS works. That I've ridden in 100degree+ heat many times in the year+ since I installed it and Teeps did some testing with it and never once experienced any sort of vapor lock in any situation. That the fan runs substantially less with the RSS. That it seems that anybody who runs a RSS loves it, those who haven't tried it are often quick to criticize it, even with no personal experience. I don't know about the American Sport Bike scoop or others, but mine only offers more air to the rear head at speed. It doesn't restrict or change any air flow to the fuel rail, but then again I'm only an ignorant consumer without access to diagnostic equipment. Oh wait a minute, it works though... Check out Teeps' link on the previous page if you haven't already. It progressed with a whole lot less nastiness than this one seems to be generating... maybe this Anony had a bad day, maybe not, who cares? My Uly's had more problems than my last three bikes put together, I've put 40k on it in 1.5 years, I've decided I'll stick it out until the warranty runs out then? Maybe HD will magically transform their dealers into effective Buell enthusiasts who can actually fix XB's and even more importantly the new Helicons. Now THAT's important, not whether an Anony got out of line with a response regarding an already controversial issue. | ||
| Dentguy |
Wow, just got back on the computer after being out of town and there is plenty to read. I don't want to get in the middle of this and since my Buell was recently destroyed and didn't have a RSS what do I know. How about a survey from those who do have a RSS to see if anyone has ever experienced vapor lock. Also for those who think that because Buell says the bike doesn't need the RSS and because they are the experts everything they say must be right (I'm not saying they aren't) keep this in mind. If nothing could be improved the bikes would never change or have evolved to what they are today. Sometimes trying other things, modifying parts and listening to owners input make things better (and worse). Motorcycle factories know this better than anybody. I had a 06 Uly that pinged everyday and the fan ran nonstop at every temp. I rode in. The dealer with Buells help couldn't fix it (or wouldn't) and both told me to just ride it. It is a good thing they listened to customers and didn't sit back and say we are the experts and do nothing about the problems with some of the 06's or the 07 and 08 models wouldn't be better. | ||
| Dbird29 |
Troll Troll Troll | ||
| Dentguy |
Huh?  Dbird29, Thanks for your input. (Message edited by dentguy on November 25, 2007) | ||
| Dbird29 |
Sorry dent guy. I really meant the whole thread. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Sorry dent guy. I really meant the whole thread. Sorry you feel that way, Dbird. Threads that can have merit sometimes take wrong turns. The RSS subject has always sparked a lot of controversy IMHO simply because the cost of the damn things is so much the perceived value isn't worth the investment. Until you bite the bullet and get one. This thread was about the merits of the RSS if any, an exception to a post was taken, and the thread flew off onto a tangent. The XB platform Buells are basically outstanding motorcycles, but not without their faults and definitely not the final word in engineering excellence. I bought one and I'm proud of it and ride the piss out of it. And when I ride it to the Homecoming Anniversary next July it'll be approaching 60k in its 2.25 years I'll have owned it. But it sure won't be the same bike that left the factory. Change is good, even when effected by the end user. | ||
| Dbird29 |
Show me the test results from adding the RSS and I will believe you. I have never seen anything but anecdotal evidence and name calling from some of the RSS proponents. How hard would it be to produce real evidence? | ||
| Rocketsprink |
What a bunch of drama queens! Why don't you all F*** Off. I've meet Abe and have a few friends that are engineers at Buell and they can all F*** Off too!! Who gives a shit! Ya all need to lighten up! I have the RSS on my Uly and was told by a Buell engineer to take it off in really hot weather. I left it on and noticed no problems. BUT I'm sure he has some data to back up his statement. I also don't do parades, so it's not a concern for me. I also don't ride where I'll get stuck in traffic. It's all personal choice. I can't imagine that if a larger scoop was needed that Buell wouldn't put one on. It's not like it's going to raise the price of the bike!! I don't have a RSS on my race bike. Hell, I pulled the fan out as well, and after a race, I just point a floor fan at it just in case. No issues there either. I know for a fact that James Gang Racing has no fans on the Moto-ST bikes (cause I pit for them) and no issues there as well. I personally like the look of the RSS and that's why it's on the Uly. If it ever seemed to cause a problem, I'd pull it and sell it. We're all big boys here. I don't see the need for an apology. From either side.  | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
Are we really that pathetic that we must argue over something as irrelevant as a scoop on a toy. Yes, I said toy, for about 95% of you it is a toy. Guys, step away from the key board, and go for a ride. BTW I rode my bike last summer in Chicago, in stop and go traffic, in 100 degree weather with the RSS and experienced no vapor lock. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Show me the test results from adding the RSS and I will believe you. How hard would it be to produce real evidence?  That's just it, I don't think I can. I bought one, it works, I'm keeping it. I like Rocketsprink's idea, sell it if he doesn't like it. Plenty out there would be more willing to try a used RSS for less $$. I'm done, I'm going riding again, wanna try to hit over 30k this year with my unproven RSS...  | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I will see your RSS And raise you a....  | ||
| Ftd |
I have had a Rob Crins RSS on my '06 Uly pretty much from day 1. Does exactly what I want it to do. Virtually no fan running while bike is in motion (central FL). First time I have ever heard of a vapor lock issue?? In my eyes a non issue. Annons can point to "Buell testing results" to back up their statements all they want but when I hear that I always think back to early XB bearings, R head lights, ULY sidestand, ULY BAS mounting, ULY bag latches etc. and wonder is the testing inadequate or are the test results not being analyzed properly?? (Message edited by ftd on November 25, 2007) |
